How big are paddlers really? -- Shirts sizes: Why so many XL and never S or M

Why is it that for every paddling event (Men and Wahine) here in Hawaii there are never enough Small and Medium shirts distributed to paddlers or available for purchase, and tons of XL, XXL, 3XL left over at the end of the day? Who is consistently doing such a poor job in ordering sizes? The designs are great and I would love to promote your event, but I am not going to run around town in a shirt 3 sizes too big (and definitely not going to pay money for it).

Is our men's crew and my wife's women's crew really the odd ones out in that we are mostly medium shirt wearers with the occasional large?

Kailua Iron Man - our crew received only XL and XXL tank-tops.
Henry Ayau - our crew received only L and XL shirts
Na Wahine - After one hour of sales on the first day, there were nothing smaller than a L paddling shirt for purchase.

Kudos to Kai Opua as we were able to purchase 3 medium paddling shirts at the Queen L races on the big island.

Submitted by no drama on Mon, 09/21/2009 - 7:06pm



Why you causing drama for?? Nah jus jokes

I'm in the same boat my gf is a small and always complain about it. I'm a large but I dread to wear a xl.


#1 Mon, 09/21/2009 - 7:22pm


Yeah, good point. I am sick of getting shirts that don't fit. My husband also paddles and I just sleep in his shirts cause he can't ever wear them. And just tonight I drove down to Outrigger to buy shirts for my crew (Na Wahine o ke kai) - they all wanted medium. But there were none! Get this - there were only XL and XXL in MENS Sizes!!

First of all, we are Wahine, not Men. This is a women's only race, why on earth would they only have men's shirts and in sizes all too large?

Actually, I had to order shirts once for a non-profit org. (to be given to volunteers) and the company that donated the plain shirts were only willing to give away L and XL and XXL. So maybe that is why - because that is what Donors provide.

BUT, if I am going to be paying $25 a shirt, I would think they could have some options. I am frustrated that I couldn't get a shirt for Na Wahine o ke kai!. This is my first time crossing the channel and I don't have a shirt to remember it by.

Please fix this problem and offer more of the smaller sizes!


#2 Mon, 09/21/2009 - 9:45pm


same story in Tahiti... have plenty of shirts i can use to cut the grass, grease the speedboat's engine, paint the house, do surfboards repairs with resin, etc.


#3 Mon, 09/21/2009 - 10:10pm


Thanks everybody keep wearing those Duke shirts -- make the sponsors happy!

Two kinds of events -- the Queen and the channel race(s) as examples when there can be a staged sale of merchandise--more like a market...can anticipate a range of sizes for apparel, but it's going to be first come first served.
Other kind is race organizers handing out shirt bags on race day (Ayau, Duke, Kailua Iron, Big Boy) when they have to buy shirts in advance based (probably, due to cost) on what is available from the base-shirt seller. Best price for base shirts can be based on what seller has (good points above).

What can be done for the bag-o-shirts races? Some ideas:
* Organizers can provide entry forms that have a place to mark down shirt sizes of each paddler. This has been done before. Then organizers do their best to build a bag of shirts tailored to your request. Can be done, but depends on CREWS getting their CREW organized with reasonable time in advance. Does that happen? Otherwise the volunteers making the shirt bags can't work magic late in the game.
* Crews can submit entry forms (that are prepared in advance, even earlier than the "day before" registration day) and make a special request for 3M, 2L, and 4 XL, for example. Try it and you'll probably get what you ask for, as well as an early registration discount if one is offered.
* Organizers can have boxes of shirts (with array of sizes) and stand at registration and presume that the person registering the crew knows what sizes everyone wants. That won't normally happen. Coach will say, "Just hand me a bag of shirts already!"
* Organizers can take a shirt order and "get back to you" with your desired sizes....in a month, after a special order...or just do the entire race shirt order after-the-fact. But think of all the housepainting rags that won't be available...and resin-less surfboards during that month of waiting!
* Status quo--wear big shirts.
* Make hats, like NaPali Challenge.

It helps to get feedback on how races can be run better and the hand-out shirt is part of it--organizers want you to like what you get. Sounds like a better allowance for Mediums, even Small sizes for wahine races, is something to consider. Keep wearing those Duke Race shirts and supporting the generous sponsors shown on the back.


#4 Mon, 09/21/2009 - 10:54pm


With my size i fit into a Large great but shoulders are a little tight so i choose to wear the XL so it doesn't look like I'm wearing a muscle shirt.


#5 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 3:49am


Secret weapon has the idea. For the race we just put on we let paddlers specify any size shirt when they registered online. So the race shirt/jersey they got in their goody bag would fit. However, everyone that registered late at the beach either got a Large or XL. That was one of the advantages of registering online.


#6 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 7:15am


I agree!!!!! It's even worse for paddlers from Maui, Big Island, Kauai, Moloka'i that only have the chance to buy something the day before race on Moloka'i! There is seriously almost nothing LEFT!
I had to get creative and go online and look for "cuts" i could do to use those big t-shirts somehow, or just donate.


#7 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 8:14am


How about after enough races, you take all your 3XL shirts, cut 'em into squares and sew a warm quilt for your coach with all the race logos showing.


#8 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 8:19am


HVA how about if you don't register online you make available XL and XS only. Awesome! I know which one goto is going to choose.

Hiro C, how do you cut grass with a shirt??


#9 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 9:34am


Sewing is cool. Quilts are cool. Being gay is cool.
BUT
Sewing quilts for your coach is super-gay.


#10 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 9:54am


How about if your coach sews the quilt? More or less gay than the other way around?

...I already sewed the quilt - tell me how to be cool.


#11 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 12:45pm


What if your coach is a women...


#12 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 1:17pm


If other sports such as triathlons can have the right size shirts for their participants why is it so hard for paddling?
And the Na Wahine o ke kai is a women's race not men's why would they EVER have men size shirts for women? It does not make sense. And out of the 30 women in our Canoe club doing this race I think maybe 3 would wear a large the rest of us are small and mediums.


#13 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 2:45pm


hmm, goto I was going to suggest maybe giving the quilt to your coach and snuggle under it with your coach to keep your coach extra warm but I think that makes it wayyyy more gay that anything before so yeah I have pretty much nothing.


#14 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 3:04pm


not sure which way this swings, but i heard one of the races next year was going to give out snuggies now that they are sold at costco. tons of room for sponsor logos. also, one size fits all.
alt text


#15 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 5:36pm


Ok now we're on to something!


#16 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 5:23pm



#17 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 6:12pm


It is good to see paddlers are funny!
But this is a valid problem for both the race-organizers and the paddlers. The organizer's shirts are not being worn therefore sponsors not being advertised and the paddlers don't get a useful piece of clothing but instead something that sits in the bottom of the drawer for years.

The Race organizers spend a good amount of time and money planning the event and having something available for the participants. Maybe they never knew a majority of the people could not actually use their "gift". This forum is a great starting point to get this message out.

I think the online registration is a great idea! But even if that is not instituted for a while, organizers should go ahead and start ordering more of the medium sizes.

Here is an ideal breakdown in my opinion (for women paddlers):
8% small
40% medium
40% large
10% XL
2% XXL

Plus, for the Molokai channel races, why can't you sell the merchandise at the end of the race as well?


#18 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 8:13pm


"If other sports such as triathlons can have the right size shirts for their participants why is it so hard for paddling?"

For years I've been listening to my wife gripe about the lack of womans size small or medium t-shirts from triathlons.

On the upside- being an XL, I have tons of triathlon t-shirts and have never done one.


#19 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 8:18pm


i think its impossible to predict t-shirt sizes close to what its gonna be. Impossible. I think pre-ordering still does not make it possible since people register near the race date or on the race date so its impossible to get a head count. If you make too many then you end up wasting money and have to raise entry fees and then someone will start a thread here complaining about high race fees. So then the race directors lower the fees but can't make enough shirts in the right sizes to please people so then someone will post a thread here complaining about shirt sizes. Honestly after trying to organize a race, ensure safety of all paddlers, pull permits, find escort/official boats, address humangous liability and deal with irate complaining paddlers (paddlers love love to complain) I think t-shirts are the last thing on their worry list.

If you have suggestions maybe you should volunteer your efforts to the race organizers and take charge of the t-shirt ordering and printing for the races.


#20 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 8:53pm


Here's the breakdown from the HVA race pre-registration:

Women: 2 S, 6 M, 1 XL
Jr Boys: 3 M, 7 L, 8 XL
Men: 3 M, 19 L, 16 XL, 5 XXL

This is a pretty small sample size and probably not that representative of a typical sixman race. I imagine it would be useful if a very large race could gather accurate numbers to give other race organizers a better estimates.

Since we're on the topic of complaining about races, more food choices would be awesome too. I guess special food preferences could be gathered during pre-registration like with tshirts.


#21 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 9:28pm


Thanks everyone for posting your shared concerns, constructive, and not so constructive (but hilarious) posts.

Poopoo, I totally disagree. While it may be impossible to be 100% in the shirt sizes without requiring pre-registration or a lag time in receiving shirts, it is definitely possible for it to be done better. That is my point. If a ton of people consistently complain that there are never any shirts in small or medium sizes, then guess what, next time order more small and medium and less of the larger sizes! Is that rocket science? Your point that some how money is wasted because there will be extra shirts makes no sense. Same total number of shirts just different sizes.

My money is wasted when I pay the entry fee and get an over-sized snuggie. The sponsor's money is wasted when I toss the shirt in the trash, use it to wash my car, or make a quilt with it. Ultimately the organization suffers as it doesn't get the free advertising to increase the turnout for next year's event.


#22 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 10:35pm


To answer bbumatay, there was a small tent sale after the men's race last year. The sales can no longer be on the Hilton beach area, so look Diamond head on the beach, just across the sidewalk from the shower & BR. I've heard the tent sales this year is planned to be bigger than last years. -Some of the issue w/ sizing & design choices are based on when the shipments arrive; not all the boxes get shipped/arrive together. -I agree w/ Poopoopaddler; committed volunteers help out organizations where you have the 90/10 break down, 10% of the people doing 90% of the work. -It does all of us good to get a first hand behind the scenes look at how much effort goes into a big race from logging canoes for shipment until packing up the unsold merchandise & equipment at the end of the race. Don't whine about how heavy the canoe is, come help carry.


#23 Wed, 09/23/2009 - 8:47am


No drama I think its time for you to volunteer!!!! Do it.

Actually races always run out of small shirts and not large shirts because its easier to deal with an irate small shirt wearing person then an irate large shirt wearing person. Plus a small person can always wear a larger size but a larger person cannot wear a smaller size.


#24 Wed, 09/23/2009 - 10:07am


"a larger person cannot wear a smaller size."

there are numerous blatant violation of this rule, particularly college kids and older people who thinks that they are still in college.


#25 Wed, 09/23/2009 - 10:35am


Man do I remember those days of my living room being stacked with boxes of t-shirts, race jerseys, and tanks of all different sizes. Trying to carry all sizes in different styles is just too much. Sorry but volunteers are not a retail outlet. The fashion is still oversize shirts - no matter what. XL is way too small for most, so go with 2XL and pay a buck more for the extra material, plus you get more shirt for the buck. Granted, I know you worked hard to get buffed and want to show off your bod in form fitting garment. Unfortunately the demand is still loose and baggy. Makes it easier and manageable to stock only the most popular sizes too. Most paddlers grab the extra material and tie it in the back anyways. Hemo the shirt and use as ground cover for your picnic lunch etc.


#26 Wed, 09/23/2009 - 1:11pm


Another problem I have noticed is the shirt quality.
Would you be willing to pay $2 more for a comfortable shirt that didn't stretch collar/sleeves after wearing it once, or shrinking after one wash? lame.
http://americanapparel.net/ mo bettah


#27 Wed, 09/23/2009 - 3:13pm


american apparel eh? can you imagine everyone looking like this? the color BTW, is paprika. yummy
alt text


#28 Wed, 09/23/2009 - 10:04pm


Funny, my team tends to have the opposite problem... We end up with the smalls and mediums---we've got several firefighters and several girls pushing the 6' and over range. We'll trade you our smalls for your large and extra larges.... Ha ha ha. But really I don't race for the t-shirt so I take what I'm given and either wear it or give it away.


#29 Wed, 09/23/2009 - 10:38pm


I have enough t-shirts for a lifetime or two- some fit and some don't.

The best race schwag is creative stuff that are one size and are cool- visors, hats, towels, drybags, temporary tatoos, antenna balls, water bottles, dew rags, etc...snuggies would be ok too.


#30 Thu, 09/24/2009 - 9:41am


I usually wear a xlarge, but the 100% cotten shirts shrink so much my wife always gets me a 2xl. Either I get the larger shirt or look like the guy in the American Apparel ad.


#31 Thu, 09/24/2009 - 2:01pm


Does that stach come with the shirt?


#32 Thu, 09/24/2009 - 2:52pm


yes. but the blue steel is not included.


#33 Thu, 09/24/2009 - 11:35pm


Why don't we go back to the 70s and 80s style of cut shirt. Cut the bottom of the shirt just above the surf shorts so it is nice and cool and then it doesnt matter what size it is. You could also cut sleeves to show the guns like jc90 does. You gotta show the guns and bricks so the other teams know you mean business. If they see you walking around ala moana shopping center with your cut shirt and then they will be scared.


#34 Thu, 10/01/2009 - 10:29am


For every event there is one person that orders the shirts from the printer. You need to find that person and see what sizes they are stuck with at the end of the event. They should keep track of what they are left with and how many people complain about not getting the right size and adjust for the next year. I did the HVA race shirts, and even with the pre-registration they had to add to the original order 2-3 times, because not everyone made a 100% commitment to enter. They still had to do a little guessing and account for the beach entrys. That was only around 100 shirts. Now multiply that by the size of the Molokai Races...Good Luck The majority of shirts i do for my customers are LG, XL, and XXL. This is Hawaii. Only when they ship to Japan do their orders pull more SM-Med. I understand when its a womens race, they should do more of the smaller sizes, but to get one blank that all women like would be impossible. Women are picky, and stylish womens cut shirts cost considerably more and have to be ordered from the mainland. Thats why you get mens cut blanks. Plus, women paddlers arent built the same as the average girl that the blanks are made for, if there is even an average, or rather non-paddling women. Again, thats why you get mens cut blanks. If you knew the ammount of work it takes to organize a race/event the last thing you, and the race organizer, would worry about is the size shirt you got.


#35 Fri, 10/02/2009 - 8:37pm


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