SUP in canoe or kayak?

JeffOYB

Hi all... I'm new here.
My question is: Does anyone do SUP in a canoe or large-cockpit kayak?
My friend George Stockman and I have been doing it for years and I'm wondering if anyone else does. I can't get any hits on the subject. I tried searching this forum and the search didn't work.
It seems like other folks would be doing it. Offhand, it seems like canoes and other long boats (like a large-cockpit kayak) can be more versatile and faster than a board. What am I missing?
I see that people are using SUP boards for touring -- they lash a waterproof duffle on deck. Why not just use a longer, faster, drier decked boat?
I have a great time using canoes for SUP and for poling. So far I'm only good at SUP on flatwater, but George has been paddling SUP in whitewater for decades.
When I first started googling around to find a long paddle in 2003 I couldn't find anything (I even started a thread about it at rec.boats.paddle). When I got serious again about finding a long paddle in 2007 I was surprised to find dozens of websites for the SUP surfers.
Anyway, I finally made my own paddle after borrowing George's "short" 6-footer. Mine is 6'-6" and made of large diameter Kevlar shafting with a Kevlar blade -- still way too flexy. But it's fun!
I almost prefer poling and SUP to sit-down. I like using my whole body. And I can basically pole or SUP my racing C1 canoe as fast as I can paddle it sitting down.
I mostly do it on our shallow local rivers -- it's great fun seeing everything so much better -- the water-life and bottom terrain as well as the forest area around me -- I couldn't see it nearly as good before due to the riverbanks.
I've only tried SUP surfing once -- in huge waves in Maine -- and got laundered. Never got up. 'Course, I'd never surfed at all before that. Not a great day for learning. I had more fun on a regular short board and ditched the paddle. I'll try to learn both kinds of surfing again on a milder day.
I've posted about my SUP canoe experiences a couple times over at http://outyourbackdoor.com -- my website of indie outdoor culture.
So...anyone else try SUP in a canoe or other boat?
--JP
outyourbackdoor.com

Submitted by JeffOYB on Tue, 01/05/2010 - 5:18am

Jim

My friend Alan Goto is huge fan of poling, he can be contacted through this site.

#1 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 7:16am

JeffOYB

How should I look for him here? I just tried searching again and got an error message.
OK, I just googled him and see that he's a bigtime ocean racer.
I'd be curious as to how he does poling -- if he does it inland or at sea. I've never heard of saltwater poling! --Except for fishing guides on the flats. Poling is somewhat well-known for river canoes, if very minorly. However, sport poling in flatwater seems darn uncommon -- it's traditionally an upstream whitewater trick for extreme conditions.
But it's more SUP in canoes that I'm really wondering about.
--JP

#2 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 7:37am

jc9_0

i can vouch for Goto's poling ability as well. i've known him since high school and even back then his skill with the pole was remarkable. some people are just born for it.
on a side note, i actually have seen people poling in kaneohe bay. mostly for fishing in shallow water though.

#3 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 8:40am

Jim

Goto's affinity for long cylindrical objects knows no bounds.

#4 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 11:53am

koacanoe

Imagine a sprint race where someone would paddle a V-1 SUP style and win. Bet there would be tons of protest because the paddler was not sitting on their okole? As kids we learned to pole on the reefs before we learned to paddle, for there is no better way for getting around when you go torching at night. There is a trick to poling in deep water between reefs, though. Back then, we use solid wooden closet poles or whatevah the fishing store had. Today, I like try the old hollow wind surfing mast if anybody know where get cheap?

#5 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 12:48pm

Jibofo

SUP in a C-1 sprint canoe is kinda hard to imagine as most people couldn't even sit in one without tipping.

#6 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 3:22pm

Rambo

If you remember the video of the World Junior Sprint Champion , he almost pulls himself into a half standing position when he paddles V1, so there is a lot of power that can be gained by being partly erect.
Here's the video
http://rambos-locker.blogspot.com/2008/08/v1-world-sprint-champion-in-s…
There's actually SUP craft available in duo and tri hull form but most are not suited to ocean conditions.
Ramboscie

#7 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 4:20pm

Jim

Partly erect...haha.

#8 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 4:42pm

anowara

I'd say the biggest thing is ease of recovery. Canoes and kayaks can take on a lot of water when capsized and in deep water are going to be harder to recover. A board on the other hand is just going to have water roll off its back.
Also, Rambo gets a huge amount of points for the most subtle joke ever. A huge amount of power indeed.

#9 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 4:44pm

Rambo

Well i could have said positioned beyond prone.
R

#10 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 4:46pm

koacanoe

Ramboscie, I seem to recollect that you refer to this technique as "vaulting." Indeed the blade remains anchored in the water while the paddler vaults the canoe past it.

#11 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 10:43pm

Rambo

Koa...... what month is it..?? .... i'm always changing my mind... what would i know .. i can only pull focus these days.!!!
Ramboscie

#12 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 10:50pm

koacanoe

Ramboscie: At least you not dysfunctional?

#13 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 11:07pm

Rambo

You should ask Mrs Rambo that question ....hahaha
Ramboscie

#14 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 11:14pm

joe

ah, that explains all the pov cameras. har har har

#15 Wed, 01/06/2010 - 12:11am

JeffOYB

Hi again...
Now, canoes come in all shapes and purposes, and even race boats vary a lot depending on class. Sprint C1/K1 is about the tippiest -- but that's the most extreme -- every other type is less tippy. I do SUP in an old regular race C1 and in a pro C2 ... and in touring canoes.
The cool thing, I find, about canoe SUP is that I can easily bring my other modes -- long paddle, pole, short paddle -- plus equipment -- and none of it is in the way or at risk -- and a passenger can have a nice bow seat, depending.
I mostly do flatwater river SUP and don't have tip-over worry.
I see that Joe Bark makes race SUPs which have the length/width of race canoes and so likely the speed as well.
I just thought I'd see at least some canoe SUP out there. People use windsurfer boards -- just grab'n'go. Why not just go use your canoe? I suppose there's the shin-barking to consider. I'm here in mid-Michigan. The surf part isn't such a big factor for our small inland lakes, so really a canoe should be fine. Canoes are popular otherwise. Since they're suitable for use while sitting down, I'm basically saying that they're also fine for use while standing up. You don't really need a whole new watercraft to do this until you're getting into conditions that need it. But, again, I may well be missing something that explains why canoes aren't part of this scene.
--JP

#16 Wed, 01/06/2010 - 4:46am

E7M

There are some Lifeguards over on the West side of Oahu that sometime do stand up paddling on those plastic Ocean Kayaks (Scrambler, Frenzy, Cobra models) for fun. This past summer some other folks were doing it as well in the calm bay area trying to see if they could do it on theirs since SUP boarding is still growing.
As for doing SUP in an OC-1, it could be done and probably has been done, but what purpose would it really serve in doing it?
Lanikai Mens 2009 Molokai Hoe Finish

Kahala Challenge Flyer pic

There was a video someone posted somewhere of someone actually catching a few small waves using a similar craft as the one pictured below.

#17 Wed, 01/06/2010 - 2:08pm

poopoopaddler

My dad's friend took 2 part foam and plastered it all over the front of a plastic kayak to make it more stable. He can paddle and fish standing up. I guess its pretty cool but is ugly as anything I've ever seen. I'll try and post pics on here at some point.

#18 Wed, 01/13/2010 - 10:18am

Rambo

If only we could walk on water ...!!!!!
R

#19 Wed, 01/13/2010 - 1:13pm

onnopaddle

Ask and you shall receive,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUShrjD-YN4&feature=related

aloha,
pog

#20 Wed, 01/13/2010 - 1:53pm

Rambo

I mean unaided pog. ...hahaha

#21 Wed, 01/13/2010 - 2:07pm

JeffOYB

Wahl...why bother? Whew... I hear that people do SUP on boards to make it easier to catch smaller waves and for a workout.
I do SUP in a regular canoe for a great workout and for a break from regular paddling and for a great view of the waters I'm paddling in (also a reason and nice perk for SUP on a board). I do it for similar reasons as to why I use a canoe-pole. Only it's for deeper water.
Also, you're doing SUP and you have a canoe. A canoe can be a VERY handy thing. Worldclass handy, in fact. People can EASILY ride in them. High'n'dry. They're great for carrying stuff. --Far better than a board can carry anything, of course.
Also, a canoe can easily be darn fast. To get a fast SUP board, you likely have to get a special one.
Lastly, canoes are SUPER COMMON. (I suppose windsurfer boards are darn common, too.)
I'm also still curious if one should be able to easily handle waves while doing SUP in a canoe -- the hull shape of a canoe CAN be somewhat similar to a board shape -- or a cross between a regular SUP board and a racing SUP board shape. So should we be able to handle waves or even do a bit of surfing with a SUP canoe?
--JP

#22 Sat, 01/30/2010 - 11:01am

Kevlon

hey Jeffoyb,
I checked out your site you sure have some cool stuff on there, its given this ozzie a glimpse of the real US of A.
I think that the ocp people would benefit greatly from seeing the Charles Bronson Mandom ad. could you load it onto here please as I dont know how to and it is priceless.

#23 Sat, 01/30/2010 - 12:54pm