OCPaddler.com | Will It Work ?

E7M

Is that a Hurricane Iako you used for the shaft?
Not too sure about the extreme scoop you put in it, but if it works great and gives you a better catch and improvement, it'll be worth all the wierd looks you get. :)

#1 Fri, 02/20/2009 - 11:12pm

eckhart diestel

E7M - yes, that's a broken Hurricane iako; I agree with the scoop - if it is too much, I will reduce it.
Flutter is more of a concern. I have a slight dihedral periphery, hope that helps.
It will be interesting to see where it will work and where not.

#2 Fri, 02/20/2009 - 11:44pm

capnron

Yes, if you paddle with a bent upper arm.
The dihedral isn't pronounced enough - will still flutter, I reckon.
I like the face profile tho. Should enter the water easily.
Let us know how seatrials go!

#3 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 12:12am

cossi

i dont think thats gonna work, thats way too much scoop. it will slow you down at the exit. entry is also a problem when your boatspeed goes up. also , as mentioned before, fluttering will be a big problem. i would turn the blade in the shaft 180°,
than you have a paddle you can handle. i experimented with paddles myself and i found that the more scoop you put in the blade, the more you have to bend the shaft, otherwise it looses efficiency. its a small grade where it can work and you have to addapt your paddling style to the paddle.
your paddle is to radical, i would go couple steps back

#4 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 1:06am

eckhart diestel

The entry problem at increased speed is a good point. The scoop reverses towards the tip to help with that.
The dihedral is 'double', one for each half, like a bird in flight seen from the front.
I can also see the bent top arm. I slightly cant the paddle on entry, I hope that will take care of it to a degree.
Exit should work if you slide out the paddle at an angle, but I can see that there may be much more resistance. I will finish the handle and do a trial.

#5 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 7:57am

King of Kailua

Interesting!!!!
I would humbly predict that the scoop of your blade will "pump" your progress down rather than forward soon after your initial forward plunge. I imagine the effect of the scoop would be magnified x10 because of the double bend by the time you begin any pull. Also, I think your engineering efforts may do more to inhibit the "open triangle of power" created by your arms and back.
Have you tried it with a straight shaft?

#6 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 9:52am

pilikuakolonahe

Let me think...........aaaahhhh...... NO

#7 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 10:42am

vijion

having a scoop that big might give you more cavatation or wiggle..while pulling especially when you become tired . ive tried blades with scoops.. and didnt like it at all .. i mean it might work for you . as a paddle builder i always say never say it wont work till you try it .. also make sure tht the blade aint to thick on the bottom because it will plunk when you enter the water,, aloha Danny

#8 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 10:42am

onnopaddle

Powerface cavitation on entry Eckhart ... Too much scoop.

#9 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 10:44am

eckhart diestel

pili ... nice one :) - is that what happens when you think " - ahhhhhh - " ? :)
I paddle by pulling my bottom hand straight back, rather than pushing the top hand forward and down.
onno - I can see the cavitation happen, will see if it can be avoided.
A swimmer's hand is quite cupped and it does work. I figure that the entry will have to resemble the entry of a hand in free style.

#10 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 12:28pm

jpi92109

Good for you tho Eck. Trying something so radical and putting it on here for all to see and critique and even heckle. At least your trying it your way and going from there. Im sure some of the guys on here are spot on with their predictions but how funny would it be if you just discovered the newest big thing! Next year well all be paddling Hurricane Iakos with snow shovels attached and youll be rich!

#11 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 1:17pm

eckhart diestel

jpi - I trust that they are right, they have tried it before. The critique is very welcome and the heckling is entertaining.
KoK - not tried it yet. The power triangle will have to give way to the power circle ...
The extreme will teach me better what may be possible and what not.
The scoop is actually plus 1 1/4 - 1/1/2 inch - not easy to measure.
I can see that the final shape to be different. The most annoying will be the bent top arm - I do not like to paddle that way.
The Hurricane iako was broken as you see it, that explains the shaft.
Yes, next year Hurricane owners will have to lock up their boats. The good thing - jpi, you can take this paddle along to your ski resort in Colorado.

#12 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 1:37pm

Rambo

Last year i had a whole day to evaluate a similar radical paddle that Captain Ron designed and built and is still being improved on to this day. In appearance it looked very similar to what Ecky has built but was narrower and came to more of a point at the tip of the blade.
Exit and catch were ok if you used the plant and catch technique properly but it did require concentration on exit and a continuation of the stroke until the shaft was almost horizontal to the water before exit.
While i noticed on GPS there was no increase in actual boat speed, there was noticeably less effort required to attain and maintain that speed. As the ratting and power increased it required more skill and concentration on the correct technique and this was where any benefits of the paddle for me dissipated. However, with time and practice it may be possible to paddle at race pace in calm conditions and maintain the perceived efficiency of power that this design appears to possess.
Bracing in rough seas is difficult , as there is no flattish surface to use, although Surf skiers seem to have found a way to brace with the wing paddle but they do it more behind their body or incorporated within their stroke when they sweep out wide.
Interesting, but very radical change in normal blade technique required.
Cheers Rambo

#13 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 2:07pm

eckhart diestel

I think Captain Ron has scoop and spoon, a ridge, a true dihedral etc., many advanced features.
Whitewater paddles have less aggressive scoop.
If this is too much I will reduce it step for step. This version is about 90 % the way I planned it - no use to spend too much time on it, if it does not work at all.

#14 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 3:31pm

onnopaddle

Danny, we were thinking the same thing / typing simultaineously, I even had "wiggle" down but my little guy hulied his bike and I had to cut short my reply.
Eckhart, before you reduce the scoop, narrow the tip / lower third way down just to see.
Aloha,
pog

#15 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 3:45pm

Rambo

I missed a very important part in my post above. As the paddle approached the surface at the exit, you had to twist it 90 degrees with the wrist like a underwater feathering movement to exit cleanly.
Rambo

#16 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 5:14pm

eckhart diestel

onnopaddler - narrowing in front view ?
Ok - did my first careful run without much acceleration.
The paddle can be paddled as is.
Entry - slightly canted with the outside edge leading, no problem. Occasionally not a clean entry, but certainly no plunging.
Catch - didn't get good feed back how effective the catch is - I didn't feel much load on the blade, not sure what that means
Pull - normal, no problem there. You have to stop the pull where we teach to stop it, can't pull through all the way.
Exit - very doable, needed some getting used to. Just handled it the way you would pull your hand out of the water in free style, no problem. Had to be careful not to load the shovel towards the exit. A quick exit somewhat to the side worked. I didn't put any transversal scoop on the blade because I wanted to exit this way, and because I don't want the paddle to get 'locked in' without lateral slide.
Flutter - just a bit on the left and only occasionally. Maybe as much as the old Axel. When I grip the shat low - I grip with fingers only - no flutter.
Shaft - not used to a bent shaft; not sure that it is needed.
Handle - that was a quick fix because I wanted to get on the water. I like palm grip, have a t top. Not as good - Black Bart has a very good handle.
Overall certainly ok. Better than predicted and expected. Of course I would need some proof that this paddle is more effective than my usual Black Bart paddle. I will try it for some miles next week and take times on my test courses.
I didn't get to test full acceleration.
Exit and efficiency would be the key points to look at. If it were more efficient, the slightly different exit could easily be justified.

#17 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 6:04pm

capnron

Give yourself some time to acquaint with the paddle before you do time trials, Eckhart. Several weeks at least. As you said on last post, you need to adapt your stroke somewhat to the new configuration (no load at end of stroke and altered exit). Side exit seems right at start, but forward exit works better.
Catch is odd because blade angle is wrong. Welcome to R&D, mate!

#18 Sat, 02/21/2009 - 10:17pm