OCPaddler.com | Mutant Ama

MikeDeese

I've seen a picture somewhere on the internet but I can't remember where. It looks like the Bixler with a funky tail and bottom. Manny has it already. I'll post that pic if I find it again. Aloha

MD

#1 Wed, 12/24/2003 - 6:45am

keizo

I saw the ad in the latest Pacific Paddler. Seems like an interesting concept and I'm curious to see it perform. I guess if you keep the ama light it can plane a little and reduce drag. :?

#2 Wed, 12/24/2003 - 3:06pm

TeMana

Mahalo guys!. I just found the ad for the Mutant Ama in the latest Pacific paddler mag. It seems to have some sort of concave or channel on the bottom with a hard edge following for water release. here is a phot of that ad. If anyone has tried this, let me know. I would be very interested iin ordering one .
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#3 Thu, 12/25/2003 - 4:37am

BeachIt4FR

I've been seeing this Ama with Both the POLARIS & ADVANTAGE. Can't submerdge it, and looks like it sits on top of the water good. That dished channel on the bottom probably reduces drag quite a bit. It's Wide & short along the wetted surface that rides where the pressure point is for balance. One rider said it was easy to " Pop off" the water for increasing boat speed when in the flats or surf. Good Job! I want one!

#4 Tue, 12/30/2003 - 5:49am

Snarfblat

Looks like one is being sold right now on 2YKanu

#5 Fri, 01/02/2004 - 12:02pm

luke

I heard that although the thing is easy to pop off the water.. in any kind of side swell the ama does not roll easily over the waves, it either pops up or goes under... i heard this kind of from a third hand source.. so i dont know how reliable it is, but i got the feeling that they weren't really impressed with how the ama handles the surf, but it sounds pretty sweet for flat water; its at least a cool idea and nice to see the level of experimentation that boat builders are employing to remain competitive

#6 Sat, 01/03/2004 - 1:30am

TeMana

In response to the Mutant Ama not being able to "Roll Over" in the cross swells, In my opnion, the present rigging we are using now with the aluminum or Carbon Iako's tends to be too stiff at times for the rough conditionsm aking the Ama push water, then having to compensate,by leaning the hull to break the Ama. The Ama is not allowed to flex accordingly with the Hull when pushing through swells, thus fighting each other. The Volume of both Hull and Ama needs to be considered, and work together. As we try to find a boat that works well in both flat and rough conditions, we need to revert back to the rigging theories for tension by lashing lines and rubber bands , for whatever conditions were present. It only makes sense to provide this possibility with the current Iako's traht are very stiff. If there is a way that the tension along the connection points can be "backed off" slightly to provide subtle or slight flexibity, all these "Fatty Ama's" will be more accomodating in most conditions. Thus solving the problem from having two different Ama's.

#7 Tue, 01/06/2004 - 11:44am

Snarfblat

I'm not sure what "roll over" means as used in this context. Are we talking about staying on the surface when the wave passes under the ama? The concept of having a flexible ama and the affect that it may have on paddling in normal conditions is no doubt, intriguing, but I don't know what affect, if any, it will have on a cross-wave.

In my mind, the amount of force exerted down on the ama, the bouyancy of the ama and the length of the iako are all factors which affect the ama's resistance to change in any direction (in this case, upward as the wave passes under). In order for the ama to stay on top of the water as a cross-wave runs through, the ama/iako system would need to be "very" flexible in order to overcome any resistance to change as is normally present in any existing ama/iako setup. If the system were that flexible there would be a significant amount of flexing in normal conditions which would be felt by the paddler as a rolling motion. The stiffness in the existing setup minimizes that effect. Physics dictate that if you want the ama to ride on the wave as it crosses over without dipping under the water, you have to reduce the downward force exerted on the ama. This then reduces the ama's tendency to resist a change in the upward direction. I can think of several ways to do this : 1) increase the bouyancy of the ama; 2) increase the length of the iakos; and 3) lightening the weight of the boat and paddler to minimize the downward force or the ama's resistance to chang in direction. By increasing the bouyancy of the ama, less force is required to lift the ama (darnit, what we need here is a mechanical engineer's perspective!) and hence keep the ama afloat when a wave passes under the ama pushing it upward. The same thing can be done by increasing the leverage by lengthening the iako or by going on an Atkins diet.

All this goes to show that there is a lot of things that need to be considered when designing the canoe system.

#8 Tue, 01/06/2004 - 3:41pm

Deese

One way to achieve the same effect is to ride very light on the ama and be sensitive to it as it wants to come up from a wave pushing it up. When you feel it pushing then let it lift. Keep your hips very loose when you ride like surf-ski style. Your body and hips act as the flexing system.This is not easy but is effective after practice and I'm sure this is how the better guys ride to keep the boat moving fast. In essence, the ama is like a brake everytime you push it down so you have to learn to ride in the center of your boat without relying on the ama. The idea of flexing iakos or a flexing connection is a very good idea. Aloha

#9 Wed, 01/07/2004 - 7:22am

TeMana

The " Roll Over" effect is how the Ama responds in any type of swell interaction. Basically, with the Canoe Hull, combined with an Ama Connection, the multi hull principles come into play, similiar to anytype of marine vessel. We need to first consider the speed range of the paddling craft as a priority, then apply other theories from other types of crafts to see how the Ama can efficiently interact with a seperate hull at maximum output. You are 100% correct that there are many equations to the current set-up of the One - person canoes that need to be explored and experimented with. With this fast moving market, and every manufacturer trying to stay ahead of each other with the high demand, Prototypes should be tested for a longer period of time, before entering the market. Once again, to try and produce a boat that peforms well in both rough and Flat water is almost a never ending solution. This has already been proven in many other water craft ventures. But to design and produce a canoe with Ama that can perform well in both conditions, they are getting closer.
This is why God invented Surf-Ski's !
But all kidding aside. The equation of volume displacent, Iako length, Flexiblity, weight of the rider, paddling techniques, Etc, Etc, is almost endless. I personally feel that majority of the Canoe builders out there are doing a darn good job. This is not an easy business to be in. I feel bad when some person will slander some manufacturer over a minor detail, only to make a different product shine, Nothing will ever perform perfect all the time, given that conditions and paddlers are not perfect either. Times are changing fast, and they are all trying to keep up with this high demand pace by staying alive and servicing the customer. I personally tried the Mutant Ama in rough and flat conditions, and adjusted the height settings accordingly. I found this to be another step ahead of improving the Ama sytem with that concave section and step edge release.

#10 Wed, 01/07/2004 - 7:43am

Snarfblat

[quote="TeMana"]to try and produce a boat that peforms well in both rough and Flat water is almost a never ending solution.[/quote]

You're absolutely right. Personally, I think its impossible to design a boat that out paddles all other canoes in the flat water, small stuff and big stuff simply because physics dictate a different optimal length, width, rocker, etc. for each condition. And sometimes you have a mixture of conditions. The best that you can do is design a boat that does a pretty good job in all conditions. But then again, all things being equal, you'll never beat a canoe design just for one condition.

[quote="TeMana"]I feel bad when some person will slander some manufacturer over a minor detail, only to make a different product shine.[/quote]

Good point! I think constructive criticism from personal experience is very helpful for those looking for a better boat. Information about personal experiences should be shared freely among paddlers and paddlers should stay away from deragotory comments.

[quote="TeMana"]I personally tried the Mutant Ama in rough and flat conditions, and adjusted the height settings accordingly. I found this to be another step ahead of improving the Ama sytem with that concave section and step edge release.[/quote]

What was the original ama that was used on the canoe and what were your impressions of the mutant ama vs. the orignal ama? If you had a choice, which one would you choose?

#11 Wed, 01/07/2004 - 9:26am

TeMana

The original ama that came with the Wilder canoes is quite smaller with the simple semi-belly - flat bottom that has the all threads on both connections for heigth adjustments. This has always been an execellent method for adjustements, due to the weight and experience of the rider, plus different conditions. but now with weight reductions as a major concern, the sleeve/ pin system has taken over, and reduce the overall weight for the ama by almost 2 lbs, ( stainless steel all threads & lots of epoxy putty).
To me, the Mutant Ama with the lower rocker along the wetted surface for Planing is very sensitive for height adjustements, with 3 holes for the pin for the back iako, Similiar to what is being offered with other brands. The Mutant is very light for its large Volume ( about 3 lbs, and excellently constructed.). I see how this can still be an good Ama for a beginner , but would lean more towards an Intermediate / Experienced paddler that can play with it depending on the conditons. Flat water, its holds on a plane, and with the concave dish on the bottom, seems to keep it up above the surface. I am sold on the entire "Puffy Ama" concept", and feel that this is opening a new direction for different designs that will help progress this sport.

#12 Thu, 01/08/2004 - 8:14am