Lines taken in Molokai

Just curious which course line teams took yesterday and how it worked.
Waves were hitting broadside and the canoe was pulling hard right.
We went for Kokohead and turned 3miles out of kokohead for diamond head, which was what Sonny Bradley recommended. Besides a huli midchannel the line seemed to be ok

How about other crews? What was the best line? What line did the leaders take?

Submitted by dacho on Mon, 10/12/2009 - 7:26am



From this article - http://bit.ly/15yoHk

Shell Va'a -- "From La’au Shell chose a course that was more southern towards Diamond Head, which allowed them a shorter, more direct route, but did not set them up for the same kind of surf run that teams farther north may encounter once off the coast of O’ahu."

Primo -- "Team Primo held a similar line to Shell by mid channel but deviated and ran more north, hoping to put in the energy upfront and reap the benefits from a fast down-wind run at the end, when other teams may already be exhausted."

OCC -- "Outrigger, already farther to the north, held their course... "

Paddling Connection -- "Nearly a mile behind and slightly south of Shell’s line.... "

Lanikai -- "Nearly a half-mile farther south than the leaders..."


#1 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 7:37am


It would be possible to place a gps on those canoes, and even to have their positions on a map Live ! They're doing it on www.surfski.info


#2 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 11:27am


I don't know that every crew really wants their route mapped out for all to see. Not that its all a big secret but that doesn't mean they want it in plain sight. I'm told by a top 10 finisher that the only route is the fast route. Go fast. If your fast then a 1/2 mile north or south won't matter.


#3 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 11:40am


I don’t know that every crew really wants their route mapped out for all to see. Not that its all a big secret but that doesn’t mean they want it in plain sight.

Let's grow up. Boat skippers are tracked. Everybody knows what route they're taking, even their competitors during the race. And boat racing is much more disputed than outrigger...


#4 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 11:49am


I thought OCP was a place for those who didnt want to grow up??

Dont get your undies in a bundle. Im not saying its a bad idea, id just like to see you get any one of the top 10 boats to carry a gps so that the whole world can see every teeny tiny move they make. BTW, when was "Cuz everybodys doin it" a good reason to do anything?

Seriously, grow up? Not any time soon.


#5 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 1:07pm


I like the idea of GPS on the boats I mean the data you could get would be so cool to see. Lets face it hear in the US we live by numbers everyone who follows a pro sport NBA, NFL, MLB is essentially watching the numbers. It might be something to attract big sponsors. By the Numbers!!!


#6 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 1:15pm


I think the info would be priceless. Just highly doubt it will be on top boats for easy public access anytime soon.


#7 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 1:20pm


Actually, the idea of having a virtual map might find favor from the multitudes that are wanting to follow canoes that are not in the top 5 or 6 crews. I would think that there are a lot of people around the world that would like to know what/where their friends and/or family members are during the race. The blog that was visible during the live feed supports this notion with the number of questions asking for information on a number of crews that were outside the TV cameras.


#8 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 1:23pm


.


#9 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 2:04pm


I can see some crews going for it for their own friends and family and personal training info for sure.


#10 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 2:06pm


One of the biggest obstacles canoe racing face is lack of spectator interest. Because of this, it is hard to sell to sponsors for bucks so that events can be put on.

I would support the GPS idea simply because it would make tracking easy and create a nice form of spectator interest, even though it would on the computer. I watched the live feed...I thought it was GREAT!! Now, with the live feed, if can swing back to a position board showing where everyone was, crap, I would be glued to that computer the entire 4-5 hours, guarantee. I would hook my computer up to my flat screen, have the boys over for a BBQ, then next thing I know, I have something resembling a super bowl party....would be good fun!!

The other thing, speaking from experience as a paddler and coach that have participated in the Molokai Hoe several times, when it comes to what course you going take.....you can plan, plan, strategize all you want the night before, but it seems like everything goes out the window the day of the race because you never know what mother nature is going to throw at you. So, for me, go ahead and track me. It would be great. I like the idea and I hope that the live feed continues for years to come. In Tahiti they do it all the time.

JawsOut.


#11 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 2:11pm


I can see both sides of the argument, however IMHO, I would agree that adding GPS to the canoes would benefit the sport from multiple stand points. Those people who are not able to participate in the race or go to the finish line would have an opportunity to still watch the race and receive immediate updates on the status of the race.

At one time, Surfski.info posted live updates on a surfski race where you could see the actual names and positions of the competitors on a website. Combine this with the awesome live video feed by OCPaddler.tv and you will have the ability to watch the race as it happens. This will draw more interest to the sport and provide another opportunity for sponsors to jump on board as advertisers as the race is going on for those 5 hours.

Some crews may not be comfortable with having their course displayed live as the race is happening, but again, is this a real advantage once the race gun goes off? Imagine the scenario, you're one of the top 10 crews, you get feedback from someone on land that is monitoring the race from the GPS information. He/she radios back gps info of your competitors positions, do you now change course to go head to head with your competitor? Which crew do you decide to follow? How much advantage can it really offer? From a competition point of view, I would think this would actually add to the level of excitement for the crews because now you know exactly how far behind or ahead you are and would serve as motivation during the race. Just my opinion.


#12 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 2:21pm


The other thing is that the top crews know exactly where everyone is going. They know if the leaders heading North, South, or staying on the rumline. So, tracking positions would not benefit anyone.

The thing that might benefit teams are help boats that are positioned ahead of the race, monitoring currents at potluck and in area's near the shoreline of Oahu. They can tell teams a half hour away to stay away from Maunaloa bay or come inside because they will know what the current is doing. This is way more helpful than having your position tracked with GPS.

JawsOut.


#13 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 2:32pm


Just as a footnote; IVF rules for OC1 prohibit 'electronics' on the kanu. I wanted to put a Garmin on my lady paddlers V1 for the off-shore race at the Mini South Pacific Games in the Cook Islands a couple of weeks ago and was told that was not allowed. I asked if she could wear it on her wrist and was told as that had 'not been discussed' so as it was not 'prohibited', it would have been allowed (she elected not to wear one, but I guess she could have).
I know Molokai Hoe and the Hawaiian races are not run under IVF rules, but just thought it was curious. Jaws says they do it all the time in Tahiti (I'm guessing he means V6), so why not V1/OC1?

PS: from a Seriously Senior's perspective...we all are growing older, but not up.


#14 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 2:56pm


when was “Cuz everybodys doin it” a good reason to do anything?

That wasn't the point... Didi you cross the channel thie week end... I did not. I stayed in front of my computer the first hour, watching the live vid, listening to the sound of the copter's engine, trying to guess who was on witch canoe... Man I would have loved to have a map showing real time where every crew was...

I don’t know that every crew really wants their route mapped out for all to see.

About growing up... if paddlers really want to hide this kind of info then I think it' childish behaviour. Some boats are on the water and they already give this info to their competitors... keeping your line secret is just keeping it secret from the people who follow the race... How can we complain that we get no sponsor if noone can se"e the show ?


#15 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 3:23pm


kala mai Old Guys Rule...I was refering to the live feed. They do it all the time in Tahiti....live feed. You pretty much can watch Hawaiki Nui from start to finish...all three days. It is awesome.

JawsOut.


#16 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 3:47pm


Hiro C., you're right. jp12niner, aren't you from Alaska or something?


#17 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 5:34pm


I wouldn't think it a big deal to broadcast your route -- you pick a course at the beginning and can adjust little by little, but it's not like you can make a right turn mid-channel, go upwind a couple miles and then make up time.

Hindsight is 20/20 in assessing routes -- you can't choose the fast route, you make it.

That said, it would be cool to put a map online where people can track the real-time routes, like those tv feeds on long airline flights.


#18 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 8:04pm


Yes, I'm from Alaska.


#19 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 8:20pm


This thread is way off track. The first post simply asked what lines crew took yesterday and how they worked, and it's morphed into putting a gps on each canoe and live tracking of the different courses. We went basically straight line to Diamond Head. I'm not sure if it would have been better going south of the line - it seems some of the good crews that did, did not have as much trouble coming in against the tide as expected. It also seemed that going too far North of the line was a mistake, as yesterday was like paddling in pudding with the Northwest swell and the bumps were even hard to catch once in the lee of Oahu. The problem is that once you are committed to a line and been on it for a while, it usually is too late to make a correction that will be of any benefit.


#20 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 8:58pm


The problem with a live feed from 1 Chopper is that there is more water views than actual canoe footage, so once the thrill of seeing a live view wanes, it becomes too one dimensional. Ideally, cutting over to a Live GPS tracking screen when the video is uninteresting and allowing the viewer to see actual positions of the top 50 crews (identified by icon or colour) would keep the excitement alive. Also cutting away to a commentary team for updates and explanations and even interviews with knowledgeable persons will complete the picture. Not that hard to achieve from a central control point, but does require some money and planning.

OceanPaddler Dot TV must be commended for what it did for this year, as they said it was never going to be easy nor coverage guaranteed, the picture when it was available was good, but just a few simple things would have made the experience much better. A simple small white board identifying the crew placed in front of the cam or even a chat room where only select small group of persons comment on the race, some with mobile phone contact with the support boats. This works well on Surfski coverage that Surfski Dot Info do. Of course having a 10 min delay complicates things so that would need to be accounted for.

Going by the number of requests for update crew positions in the chat room, this looks more important than footage, so maybe a GPS overlay or cut to window is more informative than actual live video as the crews are spread over a wide area and difficult and timely to locate, even from a Chopper.

All very interesting and I'm sure we will see an improvement next year as OP Dot TV move it to the next level.

Cheers Rambo

BTW ... Major Surfing contests are Live to the beach and on the Net and have been for a while, some are even broadcast in HD live, i have seen the expensive HD backpacks that the JetSki cameramen wear with antennae. They use a high level WiFi diversity system but of course the location is in a small section of the beach not 42miles like Molokai Hoe. Do a Google search for Live Surf contests and you will find examples.


#21 Mon, 10/12/2009 - 10:07pm


It's a much longer race, but the recently completed Volvo Ocean Race uses position reports so you can follow the race online. They did a very nice job with it and compressing that system for the Moloka'i Hoe would be awesome, especially coupled with more live video. They also allowed stealth plays where a boat would disappear from the position reports for 24 hours and could try and pull off something sneaky if they wanted. In only a few instances did this make a huge difference.

Post position reports so the folks at home can watch their favorite crew. The top teams won't gain much by seeing a GPS track of the crew in front, they have the steersman making decisions based on what their crew is capable of and their experience. If people are really worried about some crew gaining an advantage from this, delay the position report by 15 minutes or something.


#22 Tue, 10/13/2009 - 3:41am


The benefits far outweigh any negatives that i can think of, especially exposure of the sport. The challenge is to keep it fresh and keep raising the bar.

Cheers Rambo


#23 Tue, 10/13/2009 - 3:52am


Sorry Rambo, but the challenge is to find money so that they can keep it fresh and raise the bar.

JawsOut.


#24 Tue, 10/13/2009 - 9:44am


Absolutely Jaws, it has always amazed me that an event such as the Molokai Hoe and Hawaii's national sport appears to attract so little financial backing. The Bank of Hawaii era was probably the Golden years for the Sport in terms of major support, a race of such heritage deserves major backing. The event is rich in human drama, struggle and achievement, why is it that Sponsors and indeed the State Government not offer more support ?

R


#25 Tue, 10/13/2009 - 6:02pm


Million dollar question, Rambo, Million dollar question. I wish I knew the answer.

Here's a thought that I had. Set up a foundation, or even set up a fund at an existing foundation, and have paddlers, corporations, or very rich individuals, donate to this fund. Money gets invested, all income used for canoe paddling events, state regatta, Na Wahine, Molokai Hoe, Kona...whatever. With the non profit status, could even write for grants....Hawaii community foundation, Cook Foundation, Atherton Foundation, or even go to some National Foundations like Kellogg, Hershey...etc. If could build the fund up to the point where investment income could totally support it, then canoe racing will live in perpetuity.

JawsOut.


#26 Tue, 10/13/2009 - 11:27am


Its pretty sad that the mens race barely gets 3 inches on the side of the sports page in Kona. No list of crew members names of even the top Big Island finishers or anything.


#27 Tue, 10/13/2009 - 11:37am


This is a map of our clubs secret line, straight from the top secret playbook. This will help you if the conditions are the exact same next year. LMAO

What's the big deal, really?


#28 Tue, 10/13/2009 - 1:59pm


Having problems attaching jpg. sorry


#29 Tue, 10/13/2009 - 2:05pm


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