bradley lightening out of canada

Yes, it felt normal. Some elements of the boat I like better than ours. Mainly the floor of the boat had better grip for you feet.

#1 Wed, 04/21/2010 - 6:18pm

They are being offered for sale in Australia at 130kg. The first shipment hasn't arrived yet.

#3 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 12:01am

My club has 3 Bradley's and we love them. Wouldn't trade them for any other canoe.

#5 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 7:13am

Well, I might be biased as I make them, but I like discussion on open forums. I want to hear what people say and how I can improve. I also like to see comments from people that have no idea what they are saying, but this is all the fun.

Just some clarity - Our canoes are built to the same Hawaii standards as Hawaii except for weight. The new standards on weight is not related to why we build a certain way. We built to 330 not because that is a target, but due to the infusion and foam core we that is what it comes out to. We need to add materials and time to make to 400 lbs. We can build them heavier, it just cost a few dollars and we add materials evenly in the hull to reach the desired weight. We waste less materials, less damage to the environment, and make a stronger, less expensive canoe at 330 lbs.

The Australia Order was just confirmed a month ago and we will be shipping end May / June. The canoes will be built to 130 kg (280 lbs) with weights to 155 kg (330) to use for their current standards. The light canoe does cost more than the standard 330 lbs.

The ultra light which is under 200 lbs is not going to make the PA'A race in Hawaii. Hopefully we can find a sponsor club and get ready for PA'A 2011.

I am not going compare canoes to others, or try to promote ours, but just monitor comments that may not be accurate on how we now build our canoes. I have one in Hawaii if you would like to see it, or ask John Puakea or Jim Foti as they used it with during my Outrigger Clinic for two months.

Thank you asking questions on open forums, I look forward to hearing the good and the bad.

Sincerely,

Ryan Pogue

#7 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 10:24am

Bradley v Mirage in California water...

Always depends on what your steersman is happiest with. But seems like Mirage goes a little easier in the weird cross wind chop and current stuff and the Bradley releases onto bumps easier and links 'em easier too.

We don't get lots of true "flat" water but I don't think it's probably a lot of different between the two in those cases.

#9 Sat, 04/24/2010 - 10:49am

To answer a few of the questions
1 - The light canoe which is 280 lbs costs more due to the material changes. We replace glass with carbon, time to place etc.

2 - Standard canoe is 330 lbs, this is cheaper than 380 lbs. Reason is we have not tried to make the canoes this light, but we have thickened the gunnels and infused the canoes, used pigment in the resin and that saves cost and weight. 330 lbs was not a goal, that was a result. 280 or our sub 200, these are work and cost us to get them lighter.

3 - Traditional weight. To make them heavier, we can add lead, not productive, or we can add a 6 mm foam core and molding glass in the hull below the seat height. This cost us about $700 in material and time, and you can use the canoe as an ice breaker. This is a concern in Canada. IF you are going to add weight, it makes sense to make them stronger and balanced.

When we started in 2007 we built with a Lightning hull and striker parts. It was a lot of fitting and not very good finish. Any problems we had where all cosmetic and not structural. Over 50 canoes later, we have made new tools for everything. Everything is shaped to the Lightning and the finishing is the best we have ever done. All our canoes are still being raced and doing well, but what we build now is much better.

Some of our changes like the bonded seats and end caps make for a better finish, but a few customers do not want changes. We have made these changes to make a better canoe. The end caps are used as we are the only builder that glasses the inside of the deck seams. In order to do this we have to have the ends open. This is not uncommon, but I rarely see a manu finished well. To prevent this, we install a perfectly matched end cap looks great, just different and we will be staying with this.

The seats are creating controversy, I hear that they are glued, epoxied or not bonded. These are all incorrect. They are not glassed in, this is correct. Our seats are made with 1/2 balsa core wrapped in 1708 and infused. These will hold a truck. They are then bonded to a custom 'L' bracket. We bond these with a mathacrolite (sp?) This is what they use on submarines and speed boats. In our tests, fiberglass breaks before the bond. It is true that the seat is not bonded to the gunnel and if you push and pull the gunnel while on the beach the there is a slight movement between the two, but not measurable and stops at the L bracket which is above water line. This does not affect water run, but starting on the next canoe, all seats will have a bond on the side from the seat to the gunnel to prevent perceived problems. This is the same set up that people in New Caledonia and those than have used the canoe in Hawaii like.

Will our gunnels flex? Yes, our seats are lower than the Mirage and the deflection is around an inch over 10 feet. This is while on the ground and not in the water. This lay-up was used in Hawaii and paddled by top paddlers with no complaints. Going forward, we will tab the seats which will reduce the distance from the gunnel to bond reducing normal fiberglass flex increase land stiffness.

Our lay up VS Traditional lay-up

Our Gunnel - 2 layers of 1708 wrapped in a 'U' over the edge. Equals 34 oz of cloth - 1.5 oz mat
Our core in the gunnel 3/4"
Our hull 2 x 1708 +- 45 (equal tensile as Composites One 1808)
Our foam Core 3.2mm - Ends at gunnel
Infused with approx 15 G resin

Traditional

Gunnels - 3 x 9 once + 1.5 mat in strips. Equals 27 oz cloth - 1.5 oz mat.
core in gunnel 5/8"
hull 2 x1808
core 2mm Coremate (not Foam) ending below gunnel
hand rolled with aprox 20 G Resin

Lastly - Mirage over Lightning. We have sold under 10 Lightnings to southern California in 3 years. Many early models. There are 10 Mirages to every 1 Lightning, so the odds are that this canoe will still place. The Mirage is a great canoe, better than the new M2 in most conditions. The person that said the Lightning is hard in side on conditions. I agree 100% This is the only area where a Mirage with a good crew, might out perform a Lightning. I am not supposed to say that, but it is true. Up wind, down wind, flat, turning, the Lightning will win, side on, the rocker of the Lightning does make the stern work a little harder.

Sorry for the long reply, feel free to email if you have any more questions.

#11 Thu, 05/06/2010 - 11:35am