I am asking this forum for help. About a year ago I loaned a boat to an individual I thought was a friend. He had an unfortunate accident riding the boat which resulted in the ama being broken. He said he would pay for it and also wanted to purchase the boat. I gave him a price and he said he would mail me a check.
Unfortunately the check never arrived, and when I contacted him, He assured me he would send me money when his tax return arrived. I was nice enough and allowed him some additional time. Again no check. I continued to try and collect and he avoided me. His girlfriend got wind of the fact he had not paid for the canoe and she called me to see if there was anything she could do to help. He was not happy I told his girlfriend what was going on and he responded with multiple threats of violence.
I have since had zero luck getting my canoe, I had even given him an offer about 1000 less than the original price of the canoe just to put it behind me. He has ignored all contact.
Because Ocean Ohana is now being run by Jill Schooler and Jeane Barrett, They own the canoe as it is the property of Ocean Ohana. Jeane had talked to the individual last week and he said he wanted to buy it. When she saw him at the race over the weekend, he flat out said he was not going to pay for it or return it. and lied about is whereabouts.
Before I make public the name of the individual I hope you will post your thoughts on what he is doing, It is grand theft. and more importantly it is a violation of trust. Anyone that has ever loaned out a canoe to a traveling paddler or borrowed a canoe, The outcome of this situation will have an impact on you. I hope that your thoughts will convince this individual to do the right thing and return the canoe as well as pay to replace the ama. I want to avoid legal action at all costs which is why I have allowed this to go on so long, He also knows that since I am on the East coast and I have all but left the sport he can drag his feet.
Thanks,
Chris O'Kieffe
Ocean Ohana
Submitted by OceanOhana on Mon, 05/10/2010 - 9:00am
Chris, it sounds like you have been more than fair. I find it hard to believe this guy can't be responsible. What is his reasons for not paying for the canoe? But no reason is good enough to keep the canoe without paying for it. Having said that, you may never see this canoe again because he knows the trouble you'll have to go through to get it back. What an ugly situation, and I'm sorry there are people in our sport who are not responsible. Maybe posting his name will expose him, but that probably won't make him move in a positive direction. Sorry Chris.
#1 Mon, 05/10/2010 - 10:49am
Chris, I had a similar situation happen to me in the past. What I ended up doing was to take the individual to court. This was the ONLY way for me to recover my property. I was not only able to recover my property but I was able to put into the mind of that individual (and others like him) that this type of action is unacceptable. Yeah, I could of gone and ruffed him up and stuff, but that makes me no better than him or others like him.
Black-balling the individual by letting others know who they are also helps because if he or she is willing to do this to you then they could be and will be doing this to others. So letting others know prevents this from ever happening again.
Bad enough we got to deal with environmental and economic issues, now we got to deal with individuals who have no clue how to RESPECT others. Those of you that have no respect for others maybe the ocean should not be your playground and maybe you should take up counting sand.
#2 Mon, 05/10/2010 - 11:59pm
Unfortunately, if you take legal action it will have to be in civil court. Criminally, the District Attorney's Office will not touch a case such as this.
In my opinion, let everyone know who this character is. Reputation is everything!!!
#3 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 9:30am
Chris, as a fellow retailer, I thankfully have never had to cross this river, but always wondered how the community would handle such as issue if it was presented.
suffice to say you've taken all the reasonable steps and even discounted to make it happen - all to no avail.
As Jeff Probst would say "the tribe has spoken".......
Ross Creasy
Open Ocean Outriggers
www.outrigger.ca
#4 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 10:07am
let me ask this, If you knew who it was and he asked to borrow a boat from you, or wanted to paddle in your club, what would you say to him. He travels around quite a bit and even just got back from hawaii, I am assuming he is borrowing boats along the way. Knowing what he is doing to me would you lend him a boat? what if he broke it paddling, You may find yourself in the same situation.
#5 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 10:44am
If he ever approached me or any member of my crew or circle of fellow paddlers.....he would not get on a canoe. It would be good to let the dealers know since many of them have pretty liberal demo policies. Hate to see someone get burned when they show so much aloha with their canoes.
#6 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 11:05am
OceanOhana,
Certainly what this guy is doing sucks and he is a d^%k.
But usually airing dirty laundry and grievances on-line and on this forum-never turn out as clean as people would like.
For example:
Foo's Water Confrontation
Fuzerider's East Coast Business Dealings
Hypr's canoe quality rant
You have too much character to sling mud (although real mud) , it will just get you dirty too.
Deal with it in civil court. It is the cost sometimes of doing business.
#7 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 12:04pm
You can also send private messages and let key people know and word will get around.
#8 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 12:05pm
.
#9 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 12:13pm
Court is ok but all you get is a ruling which he can drag his feet on forever and few people will know about it. Go public, expose him. I personally wouldn't hesitate to approach the guy with the question: "When are you going to pay Chris??"
I can just see how that would go over if he shows up at a race and 20+ people keep asking that question.
I will.
#10 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 1:41pm
This never got to step two when I had to reel in an unpaid for paddle in once I told the guy he was about to be arrested.
#11 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 1:54pm
Kona J
All your examples have been the most enjoyable threads on OCP.
OO
Out the guy. Too much scum in the world, they need to be nailed every time.
#12 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 2:01pm
As stated, turn out from public exposure will likely not be clean.
But nothing worth doing is clean.
Expose him. OC paddling is still small enough to watch out for each other.
It was always good doing business with you.
#13 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 2:10pm
Can the canoe be Repo?
#14 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 6:24pm
However you decide to do it OceanOhana, I hope you take it to that fricker.
#15 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 6:31pm
Intensely observe gotos avatar. This will motivate you. j/k.
#16 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 8:08pm
I vote for "Talk to him nicely with a baseball bat in your hands"
#17 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 8:31pm
if you were on Oahu this wouldnt be a problem. hope things work out for the best.
#18 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 8:35pm
What's going on with those Cav's shurlOck?
OceanOhana, out him. Better still, Google him, see if you can get a photo of him and stick that on here!
#19 Tue, 05/11/2010 - 10:07pm
Eh Hazit Chris,
I met you last year @ the Monumental race in DC, very sorry to hear about your predicament! I am a firm believer in "KARMA" it never fails! Unfortunately, this piece of "kukae" has taken advantage of you and most certainly others in the paddling community as well! This is a selfish person only looking out for #1, the old adage..."what goes around comes around" will bring your situation full circle. Hang in there! I recommend you "squeeze" his beak he deserves it!! K-den
#20 Wed, 05/12/2010 - 5:29am
Clarkie....let's just say. What the hell jus happened. Could this be the kings last game with the cavs?? Nope don't think so. Game 7 at home at nite. Cavs win
#21 Wed, 05/12/2010 - 6:39am
I hope your right, I don't think the celtics will trouble the scorer in the next round if they get through. Cav's are going to be pretty ordinary without him next year when he takes the 200 million dollar contract as a free agent.
By the way, where is that picture!
#22 Wed, 05/12/2010 - 1:04pm
either way BronBron is a Piston next year
;-)
and screw the guy that stole the boat.
#23 Wed, 05/12/2010 - 6:12pm
Ill just throw this out there , I’m not sure on American law's but if a person happened to be in the same neighbourhood as the canoe and it was in the carport or open area . would it be illegal to borrow the canoe back. Just till things get straighten out????
#24 Wed, 05/12/2010 - 8:33pm
Id be too afraid of all the bad karma to paddle a canoe that I lied to steal and obtain.
#25 Wed, 05/12/2010 - 10:46pm
I say "out" da guy. Put his name out there. Oh.....by the way, LAKERS for the win!!!!!!!!
#26 Thu, 05/13/2010 - 6:23am
Bron will be a Knick next year, there will be no game 7, and the Lakers will win it all. Too much Bynum, Gasol, li' dat.
#27 Thu, 05/13/2010 - 6:29am
I appreciate the comments, I am sure he has seen the posts by now. And if I were to out him, how he might be received by the community. For now I will choose to keep his name to myself. There are enough people out there that know who he is and what he is doing to me. I will allow him a small window of time to make it right. He knows that all he has to do is turn the boat over to anyone in his club and I will handle it from there.
I appreciate the help, A string like this can get ugly and I don't think forums are a great way to resolve business disputes. Your responses were exactly what I wanted to see, simply stating that you thought the guy was an ass and he should do the right thing. Trust me there is a large part of me that wants to out him just so that there is a larger consequence for what he has done.
#28 Thu, 05/13/2010 - 7:25am
It was jc9-0, in the gorge, with the makana alii!
and the celtics win it all again just for being green
#29 Thu, 05/13/2010 - 12:14pm
leniency is a good thing, and Im sure deep inside some people like that there's a child crying out for help but . you cant baby people like that or they will take you for everything they can get. be firm and unwavering. and take some sort of action
#30 Thu, 05/13/2010 - 5:16pm
any update here ?
#31 Sun, 05/23/2010 - 1:42am
Out him so someone else may avoid this situation.
#32 Sun, 05/23/2010 - 7:10am
Fortunately I do have a positive update on this situation. And I owe it to OCP, I am fairly certain that had I not posted on this forum I would not have my canoe back. We originally took this situation to his club and asked them to consider banning him from the club. There response was.
"We discussed the issue off the record at our Board meeting on Tuesday night and the Board felt that it was an issue between a member and a vendor. Even though it was a vendor in the paddling community, they did not want to set a precedent of getting involved in personal issues -- the example given was if someone defaulted on a car or alimony payment, it's not our issue."
Although I can understand the car payment or alimony statement, I am a fellow paddler and he was stealing and threatening me. There is a big difference. Does this statement mean that any paddler can be allowed to steal and make threats towards vendors without consequence from there governing bodies or clubs?
My post and your responses were seen by the club in question and one individual stood up to the club and backed me. I am grateful to this individual for having my back when the club obviously didn't. The pressure from this person showed the club that what the individual was doing was wrong and should not be tolerated.
The individual has sense quit his club. He called me Thursday night and we made arrangements for me to get the boat back. Which did happen the next day.
I am choosing to keep all names to myself at this point. I am still out an ama, rudder and a years worth or "rental" of the canoe. A lawsuit is still on the table should I choose to go that route.
Thank you OCP and one unnamed individual for having my back and doing what is right.
#33 Mon, 05/24/2010 - 7:07am
Congrats...lets hope this donkey has learned a lesson.
#34 Mon, 05/24/2010 - 8:56am
why is the rudder missing ? what type of canoe/ama is it ? If the broken ama was returned is it repairable ?
#35 Mon, 05/24/2010 - 5:05pm