Hey everyone,
I live in Australia, lovely waterways all around (I live on the water Sydney Harbour).
I am 22 yrs old, and after seeing so many people having fun on the water in kayaks, I decided to go out and buy one for myself to use.
After investigating kayak designs, I settled on a surf- lifesaving ski design (I paddled them for a bit as a teenager for a surf club) and decided I could handle the stability issue. Took me a little looking but I found a good bargain on a ocean ski.
Picked up a good condition Fenn Millenium for AUS$1000, and a nice second hand carbon blade for $150.
Now I heard from various people that this was a classic kayak, but it was notoriously unstable for inexperienced paddlers. I found out that this is very true. Ha! In the water every 10 minutes of paddling, but slowly getting there.
Any good tips on training? Will this skii ever get comfortable to paddle around for multiple hours? Just a question of time?
Looking forward to paddling around everywhere!
Submitted by braz on Mon, 03/08/2010 - 4:07pm
Eckhart have any thoughts on this - having recently taken up the ski?
Another place you might want to post is surfski.info since its focused on surfski everything and much of the readers and posters there are in your area and might even be able to hook up with for a kayaking workout.
Good luck
#1 Mon, 03/08/2010 - 4:20pm
Braz, hook up with these people, they have novice and experienced racing and tuition in your area, Guy Leech also helps out here.
http://blastpaddlers.com
The guy you want to email is Dez
Email: Dez@BlastPaddlers.COM
Phone: 0414 464 356
Cheers Rambo
#2 Mon, 03/08/2010 - 5:43pm
Contact Dean Gardiner at http://www.oceanpaddler.com He has a variety of skis and his group can be very helpful on shortening your learning curve.
#3 Mon, 03/08/2010 - 9:00pm
My experience - first time out - not a single forward stroke - too bad I held the paddle the wrong way.
All done in Kailua Bay, windward Oahu.
Second time out ... got a good tip from Pat Dolan: just sit in the water for an hour without paddle and balance
with your hands as needed. Very helpful, confidence builder.
Third time out - in the water about every second or third minute. Learning how to mount a ski by necessity.
Fourth time out - 6 - 8 baths/hour
Fifth time out - 6 bath/hour.
Sixth time out - around Flat Island - I thought I might need an escort boat. Four times in the water.
7 - 12th time out 2 -3 times in the water/hour.
13th time out - first time on flat water in the canal - quite dirty water, scary - no swim.
14th time out - first open ocean race - easy conditions, did ok. No swim, but one direct hit - sorry guys - on the final wave entering Kaimana.
That was about three moths ago. The 'tippiness' is now a matter of joy and thrill. The canal is part of my routine - paddling often with eyes closed to get a better feeling for the boat, technique and direction.
Open ocean - if you like speed, you will like surfskiing.
Was out with the infamous youth group adventure last Friday - it was big. The first swell behind the Mokes was big, but further outside it did not get easier that day, but, unusually, worse. Two boats were lost, one paddler lost his paddle had to surf in etc. The lock on the two part wing paddle came loose and I just had to lock it at some unusual feather angle. We all made it back in after a while. the surfski did ok in these conditions, even though I had to paddle very conservatively.
Just go out and paddle.
Why surfski ?
You can get a good impression watching Tim Jacobs and Robbo Robinson on Rambo's locker.
http://rambos-locker.blogspot.com/2009/03/robbo-fully-stabilized-and-zoo...
Once you get past the first five hours, you will hardly look back. I think it would be an ideal complement for every OC 1 paddler out there. Not an "either or" question but an "as well as" argument.
PS Fenn Millenium is the least stable surfski.
#4 Mon, 03/08/2010 - 10:33pm
Yep, the Mil is the tippiest, but also, probably the fastest. So I would modify it by adding iako and ama for go paddle as an outrigger with single blade, which would make it more comfortable and more enjoyable, especially if you can drop in a custom contoured foam seat in the cockpit?
#5 Tue, 03/09/2010 - 2:44am
That's good advice, too - add some extensions to the Fenn, weight and drag, if you need more stability and are more comfortable with slower speeds.
#6 Tue, 03/09/2010 - 9:04am
Hey Braz,
The comments are spot on, but to summarise my own experience, the things that helped most were:
- Start with an easier ski. The Millenium is an old design which is very tippy, even if it is fast. Fenn XT, Custom Kayaks Horizon, Honcho Guru are some of the best entry level skis at the moment.
- Find a coach - a couple of sessions with a coach will give you the basics & will accelerate your learning curve.
- In 6 months time, upgrade to a Custom Kayaks Synergy, Epic V10 Sport, Fenn Mako6, etc. These skis are very re-saleable and Dean Gardiner does most of the them (except Epic).
- Find other guys to paddle with - it's much easier when you've got other guys around you encouraging you & keeping you going.
- Time in the water - paddle 3 or 4 times a week and you'll make progress rapidly.
- Forgive me guys, but don't hang things on the Millenium. If you want to paddle a OC, paddle an OC. A surfski is a different animal!
Have fun! (v. important!)
Rob Mousley
www.surfski.info
#7 Wed, 03/10/2010 - 2:18am
Yes indeed a surfski is a different animal, and that's why we tamed it almost 20 years ago with iako and ama so many many more paddlers could enjoy the ocean. The taming has resulted in today's state of the art OC-1s, which no doubt were influenced by surfskis in the past. The future, however, may be that skis will be influenced by OC-1's?
ps: The original Fenn with ama and iako (Twogood's Marlin) use to place in the top 5 in Kanaka Ikaika races about 12 years ago.
#8 Wed, 03/10/2010 - 11:46am
Hi Braz
Jude @ Huki outriggers & surf skis .com makes a wing maybe it can be put on a millenium. I made the same choice for my first surf ski eventually could ride it. At 22 you still have a fast reaction time, I'm sure it will work out. time is the answer..
#9 Wed, 03/10/2010 - 3:56pm
Thankyou for all your comments guys,
I found a group to paddle with in the mornings, and time trial races on weekends.
As for getting a different kayak, money is tight at the moment so that will not be an option.
I have actually got the hang of it now, took me a few days since I got it, but I can actually get quite a lot of speed up on it now, even through choppy waters. Yesterday took it out in some swell and had a lot of fun chasing the runners. Still tip over a few times on a 10km course, but all in all I should be ready for my first race in a week or so I think. Swims don't bother me as I am almost always out there in Speedos only :)
If I wanted to start doing beach entries and exits, what are the limitations on this ski in regards to waves? I am not going to be out there with the purpose of catching waves, but only to get in and out of surf zones to get some coastal paddling done.
Thanks!
#10 Thu, 03/11/2010 - 12:09pm
If you got the heavier weight one (15+ kilos), then no problem and no weather vane effect. But if you got the light weight one, well........it ain't bomb proof like a spec. ski. Much too long for surf the breakers like a spec. ski, but fast and fantastic out on the big and small chop, for the ski will pick up everything. Seems like you got the remounting issue licked - so no problem. The best part comes when you blow by all the bloaks in their newer super light and and expensive skis. Let's face it, speed was compromised when they made skis more comfortable and less tippy. Remember, this ski is not a tanker, but it will get you from point to point and maybe back in less time. Also, despite the weight, it accelerates well, and when it gets going, it goes. So, watch out because that means it will tire you out fast if you're not in condition. This ski also loves a shorter paddle (200 - 210 cc). When you wipe out, let the ski surf on its own back to shore. Staying with it will only encourage possible damage.
#11 Thu, 03/11/2010 - 1:17pm
I have a Fenn 1 paddle, not sure about lengths etc. Ill check it out today. Is it measured from the base of the blade to the other side? Or the tip of the blade to the other end?
#12 Thu, 03/11/2010 - 1:42pm
Measure Tip to tip - as a general reference, try use this for starters...
http://www.epickayaks.com/products/paddlewizard
Try da kine hold your kayak paddle with both hands with a 90 degree elbow bend, placing the middle of the paddle shaft on top of your head and see how far the blades are to your hand grip - that will give you a general indication is your paddle shaft is too long or short or jusssss rahhhhhht
#13 Thu, 03/11/2010 - 3:28pm
Called up someone for a 1 on 1 coaching session just to get some technique nailed, and the coach asked me what boat I am on.
I told him a Millenium, and he told me to get rid of it. He said that a boat like that will ruin my technique. He said my stroke will not be "high enough", and that it will teach bad habbits. Mentioned that if I went to him, he would only let me hire a more stable boat from his company.
I personally think I am doing alright so far, and I have been watching videos on blogs and youtube of proffessional paddlers, and I try my best to copy their technique of arms straight in front. I have that nailed, just need to work on my twisting on the catch.
What do you think? A serious concern? Or just someone trying to get me to pay extra to use their boats?
#14 Thu, 03/11/2010 - 6:09pm
Now that's a crock!!!! Ruin your technique? Aw c'mon!!! Go check with the Manly Surf Life Saving Club on how to get in touch with Gabrielle Howard (I don't know her married last name), but "Gabe" is an outstanding stroke technique coach who will help you develop your technique for a nominal fee. She won't overcharge you, etc. or sell or rent you a bunch of stuff. You're doing real fine, and if you can remount the Mil in sloppy water - that's all that matters. Technique will follow with experience whether on a Mil or anything else.
#15 Thu, 03/11/2010 - 8:29pm
I have a Fiberglass Mako6, I wish I could find a Carbon Millenium !
A friend let me paddle his for a few months last year and then he took it back... AArrrhhhh ! This thing was a rocket !
#16 Thu, 03/11/2010 - 9:35pm
I started on an Epic v10 Sport, a very good choice for me.
Surfski and OC 1 don't compare all that well.
Rob - you have a great website and good Miller's run' videos.
#17 Thu, 03/11/2010 - 11:43pm
Not sure where that supposed coach is coming from when he said that Femm Mellinium will ruin your technique - technique is technique and hopefully, a good technique will be transferable to whatever racing ski you have. Epic. Fenn, Think, Nordic Kayak etc.
That comment about "high enough" i assume is referring to stroke rate and if that is the case, stroke rate also comes over time with good technique, a lot of practice and muscle conditioning.
If you have a chance, spend your technique time in the flats so you can focus strictly on technique and not have to worry about "runners/swells/bumps". Riding waves will come but starting a new sport requires patience and working each fine detail of the sport one part at a time and then bringing it all together.
Each practice, have a purpose in mind - what are you focusing on today - what element of your stroke - break your stroke cycle into phases, each element (set-up, catch, pull, exit/release) calls upon different muscle actions - try to maintain a steady stroke rate, speed and maintain form and technique at all times.
Build your stroke rate up as your technique gets better - you will find a stroke rate threshold at which your technique will begin to fall apart - videotape helps alot - videotaping at slow speeds and fast to see how your technique breaks apart as you go faster.
Kayak downwind to get the feel of the hull as your stroke rate can go higher with less resistance and strain on the muscle, focusing on muscle coordination at higher stroke rate...
Good luck and have fun!
#18 Fri, 03/12/2010 - 1:36pm
Hey mate,
Im keen to get back into ski myself, can you please tell me which group you go to. Keen to go for a paddle sometime if you are keen? Anyone else who is keen to go for a decent mid week paddle, hit me up
email: sam_blackburn23@hotmail.com
#19 Sat, 08/28/2010 - 1:52am
#20 Sat, 08/28/2010 - 3:06pm
Hell yah I am keen.
I bet team Primo will be Keening it up in the channel this year.
#21 Sat, 08/28/2010 - 3:23pm