March 22, 2010 (Atlanta, Georgia) — Long-term marathon training and racing might not be as good for the heart as some runners think, a new study suggests [1]. Researchers have shown that long-term marathon runners, those who have completed at least 25 marathons over the past 25 years, have increased coronary calcium and calcified plaque volume.
"The last thing we want to see come out of this study is a suggestion that marathons are bad for you and that runners shouldn't be running them," lead investigator Dr Jonathan Schwartz (University of Colorado, Denver) told heartwire . "Running is healthy and part of a healthy lifestyle, but the data suggest that long-term marathon running, with the training that goes into them, might lead to increased levels of calcification across the lifetime."
Presenting the results of the study at the American College of Cardiology 2010 Scientific Sessions, Schwartz, along with senior investigator Dr Robert Schwartz (Minneapolis Heart Institute, MN), his father, said that at least three runners have died this year during marathons, and three runners died during the 2009 Detroit Marathon, a race that included nearly 4000 finishers. Runners are typically considered a healthy subgroup of the general population, so these deaths are usually high profile and attract a great deal of media attention. One recent estimate suggests the rate of sudden cardiac death among marathoners is rare, roughly 0.8 per 100 000 participants [2].
Submitted by eckhart diestel on Tue, 03/23/2010 - 8:53am
Mahalo for the new info. I guess I'll just have to re-think my goal of doing at least one (1) Molokai "Ironman" solo every year? Mybe every other year? I remember years ago, Dr. "Z" use to collect our urine specimen after the Bankoh Kayak Challenge, which showed lots of ketones produced and indicated that fat was indeed being used as a fuel to cross the Channel. But now having to deal with "increased coronary calcium and calcified plaque volume" worries me.
#1 Tue, 03/23/2010 - 9:49am
Thanks for that Eckhart, I've done 19 404km Murray Marathon canoe races, 6 more and I will punch out! Bummer!@#$%^.
#2 Tue, 03/23/2010 - 10:26am
Thanks for making us think about our health Eckhart it is important. Just had a 41 yr old friend pass away running at home on his treadmill...
The topic is Interesting but Statistics sometimes don't tell the whole story. For example in the quote used how many of the 3 unfortunate people who died out of the 4000 marathoners in Detroit died because they had "increased coronary calcium and calcified plaque volume" and also had run 25 or more marathons.
I tried to look it up the details of the study but couldn't find more info. I guess it implies some moderation as koacanoe notes in our regular racing but maybe not...
"The last thing we want to see come out of this study is a suggestion that marathons are bad for you and that runners shouldn't be running them," lead investigator Dr Jonathan Schwartz (University of Colorado, Denver) told heartwire. "Running is healthy and part of a healthy lifestyle, but the data suggest that long-term marathon running, with the training that goes into them, might lead to increased levels of calcification across the lifetime."
"Also, damage to the bones might lead to calcium leaking into the bloodstream".
This last thought may give us the green light to keep paddling as bone stress should be significantly less sitting in a canoe than running on pavement.
Just looking through a different shade of the same glasses.....
#3 Tue, 03/23/2010 - 10:31am
The article serves as a reminder that more is not always better.
To die in a marathon - if you don't have an underlying condition - just from doing it is rather unnecessary.
We help the Red Cross with the Honolulu marathon every year - you'd be surprised who does this sort of thing; it is scary.
Compare a Molokai Solo with about everybody in reach participating on whatever type of vessel at whatever level of conditioning ...
Clarkie - you can get a CT angio and post the results here.
By the way - I am convinced that running a marathon is not healthy for most people.
#4 Tue, 03/23/2010 - 8:01pm
How about you do it for me next time I'm over there Eckhart. I'm not sticking a tube up an artery in my groin just to keep you informed, I'll just be blissfully unaware of the danger for six more years till I run out of money in the meter!
#5 Tue, 03/23/2010 - 8:24pm
Nah!! Up the groin is the old fashion way. Now a days, they do it up the arm and is real fast. If you need stents, they'll do it then too. Ask for a cd or thumbnail, so you can send it to Eckhart for review? Yes, the beautiful nurse will also shave your groin area in case they can't do it through your arm. If you're over 35 and doing hard intervals, this is a must do exam, for you'll be surprised at the sludge build up, even with a politically correct diet. Problem is you got to have indications or the insurance won't cover. So postpone getting that new canoe and go spend the cash on this procedure. Besides the cash and new canoe, all you're giving up are a few days of practice while your body recovers. Then go back out and hit it on your old canoe when the Doc. says it's alright. Worth it!!!!!
#6 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 4:21am
There's actually a growing backlash against long slow distance (what most of the training for a marathon is going to consist of) and evidence suggesting high training volume is not beneficial and damages to the body. There are plenty of stories of people who have reduced training volume and remained successful (or achieved greater success) with reduced training volume. At the Winter Olympics, there was one female nordic skier who medaled in all the events she entered, after drastically reducing her training volume (http://vancouver2010.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/27/cross-country-skier-bj...).
Here are also a couple of links from a former national level marathoner who does a good job detailing what LSD at high volumes does to you body:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/chronic-cardio/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/case-against-cardio/
This debate came up a little in this forum as well.
#7 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 4:45am
Eckhart,
I wonder if the calcium overload in the runners is a somehow related to the pounding trauma that runners bones experience. Paddling is a lot easier on the bones. So far haven't heard of any paddlers dying of this sort of thing.
#8 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 7:30am
Fortunately the heart is an organ that can adapt pretty well to narrowing of the arteries - provided this happens over time. A sudden closure is often deadly.
Another interesting fact: heart attacks have not much to do with the narrowest segment of an artery - they can occur anywhere at any time - infection/inflammation ?. The entire why-mechanism is not fully understood yet.
One thing that is really important: weight.
If you do performance sports - please do that with an optimal weight ! There are tons of paddlers that are rather casual about that - and easily 20 - 30 lbs pounds overweight.
It's your choice, but being overweight and being an 'athlete' are two different things - in my opinion.
Exercise will not reduce your weight significantly.
There are two ways to do it:
eat less - you are eating too much
eat different - what you are eating is not right for you
#9 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 7:38am
ainokea - it would not be easy to prove it one way or the other. If a high calcium level leads to narrow arteries, then maybe. I guess it could be some stress related injury/inflammation to the cell membranes, or something of that sort, too.
#10 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 7:40am
Eckhart When you say:
"By the way - I am convinced that running a marathon is not healthy for most people"
I agree with your statement. Do you think the unhealthy part is all the training building up to the event or the stressors that the event itself places upon the body?
I too ( more from a biomechanical side ) am amazed at body types and relatively less healthy individuals who place the marathon as a goal to go for.
#11 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 10:53am
Just Paddle said:
Cortisol is one of the main problem with this type of exercise (i.e. high intensity for long periods of time). I would think training, which accounts for most of the time involved in a marathon, would be far worse because most people are going to do high volume multiple days a week. For instance a training calendar like this is a lot of volume for most people.
Last fall I remember reading an article about a backlash to the popularity of marathons, with the basic tenet being there should be a 4 hour time limit on the event to keep the race population on the healthier side and essentially keep out the riff-raff (not-serious) runners.
In terms of fitness goals, I'd much rather run a fast mile then complete a marathon.
#12 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 11:55am
Why get out of bed?
If you have to do it you have to do it. Some people just like the challenge. Even if you know it's no good for you.
#13 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 12:25pm
Stay in bed, Clarkie.
The point is: you don't have to do it.
#14 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 12:35pm
Eckhart, what is "calsification" in the heart and might that be more a result of bad diet or dehydration than to the amount of exercise one does?
#15 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 12:54pm
It should be 'calcification' - meaning deposit of excess calcium.
This can happen in any tissue. 'calcification of the heart' is also not quite correct as the heart has muscle, nerves and blood vessels etc. - all of these could calcify.
The narrowing of the arteries has to do with inflammation, lipids - particles get deposited in the vessel wall and calcify over time to extremely varying degrees. Calcium can also get deposited outside the vessel lumen. Thus, you could have a huge amount of calcium on a scan but still nice blood flow.
In short, whatever scenario you can think of can and does probably happen. You can have one pristine looking artery with a single ugly looking spot, etc..
The full mechanism is only partly understood. The main question: why does this happen and how can we avoid it, has not be answered.
Using common sense is the best way to approach this question.
It can't be really healthy to stress yourself. It is like overheating an engine - nothing may happen, but things may crack as well.
If you are really well trained, you would think that you are fine. Reading that article was a surprise to me as well.
Everybody that does sports should have optimized weight - think of your poor joints ...
Diet - I am not too critical about diet, except it should be less.
The healthiest product at Safeway is Bitburger - a beer, brewed without additives.
#16 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 2:59pm
We all have our addictions Eckhart, as you know!!!!
Sometimes you don't have any choice. My addiction is all possessing and I am not ready or willing to give it up.
I have modified my training for ultra marathon racing over the years. I do more short high intensity training then I used to and only do long distance at races. So maybe I have solved the problem without the test. By the way I HATE needles so unless I fall off the perch I am not having the test. They still go through the groin here!
#17 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 3:03pm
Mrs Clarkie told me there have been some calcification in certain dormant organs on you. I can't name them here for fear Google ads might pick up on it and make some suggestions. Your secret's safe with me Clarkie, no worries Mate.
R
#18 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 6:19pm
Thanks for that Cecil. Here is Eckhart trying to have a serious conversation and you want to visit to see if my nuts are still on display sitting on the mantlepiece. Good discussion though, it's not something I was aware of and Eckhart is a man qualified to give us the information first hand.
Hey Cecil, I am thinking of buying another canoe, what is the world record for having your nuts removed and replanted, there is alot of scar tissue building up and no doubt some calcification!!!!!!!!
#19 Wed, 03/24/2010 - 11:39pm
Not all calcifications seem to be bad then ... but your next canoe should be a surfski - I have seen you on the Murray River, good paddler, good glide, you deserve it.
It was impressive how good you were in the Hawaiian waters anyway. I understand your 404 mile plus paddles, - 'at least daddy is not at the pc' in those long hours.
Rambo - Mrs Clarkie seems to see you as a confidant - 'dormant' organs - that sounds concerning ?
#20 Thu, 03/25/2010 - 12:00am
Don't stress Eckhart, those dormant organs come out of hibernation on my birthday!@@##$
#21 Thu, 03/25/2010 - 2:25am
"Calcified Nuts" ............ I told you about Vegemite years ago, but no.... you insisted on Vaseline (Petroleum based) What's more, you wanted me to apply it for you.
"Dormant organs" - Birthday.??......... what happened to pay day?
I thought OCP was a young mans forum?
Rambo
#22 Thu, 03/25/2010 - 12:56pm
Clarkie - are you sure you remember your birthday ?
Hibernation - it must be pretty cold on the Murray River.
#23 Thu, 03/25/2010 - 6:53pm
His other smaller head never forgets ..!!!!!
But just like the baddie in the Movies ..... when there's no ammo...the gun just goes ...CLICK
#24 Thu, 03/25/2010 - 8:06pm
I'll take Eckhardt's advice on the Bitburger, for sure. I think this discussion has a near perfect balance of tomfoolery and knowledge.
#25 Fri, 03/26/2010 - 8:10am
Yes!
Bitte ein Bit.
#26 Fri, 03/26/2010 - 8:23am
Do they sponsor any races?
#27 Fri, 03/26/2010 - 9:19am
They do - it is one of the best marketed brands - and a good beer.
#28 Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:16am
Check out how good it is ...
http://www.rovianconspiracy.com/2006/04/bitte-ein-bit.html
#29 Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:19am
http://www.bitburger-braugruppe.de/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=fil...
#30 Fri, 03/26/2010 - 11:27am
BITBURGER!!!!!!!! Ach du lieber himmel! Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier!
#31 Fri, 03/26/2010 - 3:30pm
pilsner bites...
ales rocks...
#32 Fri, 03/26/2010 - 3:52pm
Tommy - that's really good - that's exactly what you would hear in Germany if someone would recommend a beer, especially a beer like a Bitburger.
The Bitburger is actually quite a good beer, but not a classic. It has enough character to like it, but not enough to praise it. It's good, close to very good, but not quite special enough to rave about it.
It is just too commercialized as well.
There are hundreds and hundreds of beers like Tommy's Hefeweizen, they are special and they are praiseworthy. Mostly this is due to the fact that they are local. But often they are indeed very very good, like an excellent meal in a good restaurant.
During the reformation wars in Europe several hundred years ago all beehives and bee colonies were destroyed; these wars lasted a total of 100 years, so everything was destroyed actually.
Up to that time honey was the basis for German brewing, meade ( spelling ) Met was the drink for thousands of years - fermented honey.
Tacitus - the famous Roman historian - describes the German tribes quite precisely and he stresses their love for wild parties with huge amounts of Met digested over days. No wonder that the Germans were, and mostly are, strictly monogamous.
Without the bee colonies a new solution had to be found, wheat was used - and that was the beginning of beer brewing. The monks did the job.
Weihenstephaner Hefeweizen = that is likely the name of a monastery
#33 Fri, 03/26/2010 - 10:43pm
Alright, so beer drinking leads to monogamy. I'll be sure to let the wife know.
#34 Sat, 03/27/2010 - 6:10am
What about my weight? They got a 55 calorie version or less?
#35 Sat, 03/27/2010 - 8:51am
No No No the idea here is to replace food with beer and not to worry about the calories.
#36 Sat, 03/27/2010 - 11:12am
Funny how "too hard to comprehend" topics end up talking about beer and sex ....hahaha
Males are universal
Rambo
#37 Sat, 03/27/2010 - 1:47pm
Beer.... MMMmmm !
#38 Sat, 03/27/2010 - 6:40pm
In the summer of 1972 while attending the Olympic Games in Munich I also managed to squeeze in several weeks visiting the fine Bavarian breweries. In the town of Freising which is just north of Munich is the Weihenstephaner brewery which claims to be the oldest brewery in the world at over a thousand years in existence. As a local boy who grew up drinking Primo, Lucky Lager and Olympia, I was totally blown away by the taste and quality of the German beer. Hope to go back and savor it again if my aging heart can take the abuse.
#39 Sat, 03/27/2010 - 7:25pm
Many years ago, while in the Weihenstephaner brewery digesting a Hefeweizen, I noticed a slightly dated
engraving in the seat of the wooden bench where we were sitting:
It had the shape of a heart with letters placed inside; one was a 'T', followed by a '+' and another letter, which I could not decipher -
I have always wondered what that stood for ...
#40 Sun, 03/28/2010 - 4:34pm