What is the next step for the progression of canoe design?
Will a new high-performance 6-man canoe design from Hawaii spread to Australia and/or California?
Will there be a canoe design evolution significant enough to impact iron man and 9-man races in California or Australia as there was in NewZealand with Kjeldsen's "Mahi Mahi"?
-Please focus your thoughts on how the teams and racing associations in Australia or California will react.
-Think more about solutions to the problems that might occur rather than pointing out something obvious such as money.
-I respect the culture and tradition of outrigger canoe paddling immensely but I want to see who will pioneer the sport, create ever better equipment, and most importantly maintain the respect, candor, sportsmanship, and aloha consistent with the highest moral standards.
Submitted by gauchopaddler on Mon, 05/24/2010 - 2:37pm
AOCRA australia has already opened up to other designs ,eg ROC (tahitian style) and Souther Spirit(Computer aided Sailing inspired) as well as Hawaiian designs, and in three years the minimum hull weight drops from 155kg (341lbs) to 130kg (286lbs). These boats are/ will be used in any competition (only 1 association here)
#1 Mon, 05/24/2010 - 2:46pm
Latman,
When a club or an organization sponsors and organizes an event, are they required to recognize and award all divisions, both age and hull design?
Or can they choose what divisions will be in their race because they are the sponsors/organizers?
#2 Mon, 05/24/2010 - 3:10pm
Generally the organizing club will have to hold a "race" for every Division that can muster 3 entries and award medals/trophies to all top 3 crews, so with male/female, open/master/senior master/golden master this can add up to LOTS of medals. There are no "different" boats at least! (ignoring juniors)
#3 Mon, 05/24/2010 - 4:10pm
Mahalo Latman
#4 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 7:17am
Actually the host club or organizations can choose whatever Divisions they care too. There are standard divisions, but not all groups abide by the 3 or more for a division.
It should be up to the host club or organization.
#5 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 7:45am
Latman and anyone else who is reading this,
How are the Australian teams acquiring their Tahitian canoes a.k.a. ROC's?
I would imagine that there is a builder in Australia who is making the Tahitian or "Polynesian" style. Or they are being shipped from a builder such as AH TAK or the other guy on Youtube Jean Va'a?
If there is a designer or builder outside of Tahiti that is building these canoes other than Kamanu and Livestrong then does anyone know who and how to contact them? Are they flying the Tahitians in for one-off jobs?
Also who is designing and building the Livestrong open mold division 6-man canoe and how can they be contacted? I am already contacting their steersman.
In addition I want so badly to build a 3-man like the one in this video can anyone give me a direction or a contact?
Why the curiosity? To me It looks like the next step for paddling and canoe design is to introduce a greater diversity of canoe design in races particularly in California. It'll spice things up a bit and foster growth and greater interest in the sport and perhaps improve paddling skills. Similar to the gain in popularity of the V-1.
Pa'a, Kamanu, Livestrong, OC's Lovell Taylor (Mirage II), New Zealand w/Maui Kjeldesen's Mahi-Mahi, and Australia's racing association have proven that there is a likelihood that a motivated team of paddlers potentially working with Billy W. at NAC can successfully make an open mold division exist in California.
My own motivation can be summed up by a quote from Dave Kalama - "I just like to have fun". Personally I can't have enough fun for myself in a canoe sometimes and I really want to use my skills and knowledge to build fun canoes in California and have fun doing it. First I need to seek guidance from the people who know this stuff so please know that I am listening.
Closing note: Anyone else interested in doing this in California is fully welcome to get involved
#6 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 10:28am
gauchopaddler...from my understanding ROC canoe builders are based in Rarotonga and for some reason have ceased production. They did have a website www.roc.co.ck .
Try http://www.mauikanu.co.nz/ ...they build most types of Waka/Va'a - including a 3 man canoe.
#7 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 10:39am
The ROC's are being built in Aus by Harvie Allison of Tiger Aust. The ROC was actually designed by the same Tahitian that designed Livesstrong V6. - Phillipe Bernardino from canoe club in tahiti called TEVA.
The original ROC was modified, gunnels raised 4inches, seats 1 and 2 repositioned (rearwards) and a few minor changes. Contact Harv at harv@idx.com.au
Cheers Rambo
#8 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 11:37am
In Australia, the Southern Spirit OC6 has been around for over a decade. It's a Tahitian-inspired design & is very popular. Also, there will be Tahitian-made Va'a Factory V6's coming in before the end of the year. We now or will soon have 6 different designs to choose from - Mirage, Bradley Lightning, Southern Spirit, Tiger ROC, Mahi Mahi (from NZ) & Va'a Factory. All lightweight 130kg (286lbs). Good times Downunder!!!
#9 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 3:26pm
From Rambo
The ROC’s are being built in Aus by Harvie Allison of Tiger Aust. The ROC was actually designed by the same Tahitian that designed Livesstrong V6. - Phillipe Bernardino from canoe club in tahiti called TEVA.
The original ROC was modified, gunnels raised 4inches, seats 1 and 2 repositioned (rearwards) and a few minor changes. Contact Harv at harv@idx.com.au
Cheers Rambo Wed, 05/26/2010 - 7:37am
The ROC is actually built by Scott Wheeler and others at Currumbin and sold by Harvey Allison (well known photographer) who has many contacts in Cook islands and rarotonga. Scott did a number of modifications to the "plug" he recieved (including fairing) and is building them using a Fibreglass/Foam core construction.
#10 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 5:17pm
Hello Gauchopaddler ,please say g'day mate to Billy Whitford for me .thanks Lats
#11 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 5:22pm
hey Hasto , what about the Bladerunner in Sydney and Sabre up north ,of course you may still be able to Buy a force 5 from Peter Corbishly or his newer Comet ??? there's 4 more options
#12 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 5:28pm
Yes Lats you're right. The canoes you mentioned are classic open deck design (afraid I know nothing of the Sabre so only guessing there - correct me if I'm wrong). 10 different canoes to choose from! When you look at it, we're spoilt for choice. Canoes for all conditions!
#13 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 6:00pm
#14 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 6:16pm
The ROC was imported by Mark Forbse for his personal pleasure after paddling them in Raro... I took the original hull, modified the front end & put on a deck as well as tweaking the seating & designing a new ama kiatos etc.. the canoes come with luxury items like hot wire cut seat covers & non slip buffed rubber floor mats, individual cover per cockpit as well (2 mins to fit) the construction is 6mm foam core & full resin infused, they come out the mould at round 115kg & have to be weighted up to 155kg until the lightweight class is introduced fully in a couple of years (bloody frustrating), the price is the same as the cheapest 155kg canoes, we can do this as my builder Scott Wheeler also builds my Tiger Canoe products and DKG surfboats for me so we get good prices on foam etc as the volumes are considerable ... The Southern Spirit was commissioned by myself & designed to my specs by Ian murray, ledgendary olympic sailor .. it isn't Tahitian design as it still had to come up to the original AOCRA/HCRA specs, it wasn't well accepted at first but now has a good reputation with many clubs .. The ROC is really a progression of what was achieved there but without the design restrictions so it surfs way better & is also quicker uphill where the Southern Spirit excels .. Harv
#15 Tue, 05/25/2010 - 6:22pm
Rambo: So glad to get your feedback Mahalo
Harv: I tried the ROC website but couldn't find pictures. Much interesting and helpful information has come forth about the ROC canoe.
hasto: So stoked to hear that Va'a factory is building a V6. It is intriguing to think that all of the sudden there is a small uprising in Va'a inspired canoe design. Perhaps we are truly in the midst of a revolution, perhaps I wish I was in the middle of it.
Latman: Can I call you Lats? I'll let Billy know next time I see him. Also what is a Force 5, Comet, or Sabre? 6-man canoes I assume. All Australian? Australians seem to have really diversified canoe design.
Question for all of you: It seems that Livestrong now has a new canoe that was raced in the Eono?...I think. I recently found a photo of this Livestrong canoe, it has tall hoopy iako and a very familiar looking ama. It's Almost like I've seen the same ama on another fast but much smaller kanu. Was this new Livestrong another Bernardino?
Additional Notes:
Must say that I love this. I waited far too long to ask these questions. You are all so nice to share this with me. No library or internet search could have revealed one quarter of this information. Thank you very much.
#16 Wed, 05/26/2010 - 8:35pm
Another question: Who is Bill Rosehill and does he still build kanu. If so then where?
Mahalo
#17 Wed, 05/26/2010 - 8:45pm
Hey Goucho, you can definately call him Lats .. that in fact is his real nickname ! ... we haven't got anything on the ROC on Tigers site yet, it's a vastly different canoe than the plug brought from Raro, we will have some racing at Hamilton Island & I'll have plenty shots on my web site after that www.harvpix.com .. meantime here is one shot for a quick lood & a link to some video that Rambo produced, showing the performance in heavy chopp
#18 Wed, 05/26/2010 - 10:32pm
gauchopaddler,
Contact me at konakanoeshawaii@yahoo.com
#19 Thu, 05/27/2010 - 1:04pm
Philippe Bernardino did not built Livestrong's newest canoe. He built their first two V-6, Noa and Noa Noa. Their canoe was built in house.
Tiger
#20 Fri, 05/28/2010 - 8:44am
Cool, thanks for the correction Tiger. the LiveStrong website only mentions Philippe as the designer but doesn't say which canoe specifically.
#21 Fri, 05/28/2010 - 1:57pm
Hey All,
Well I've been trying to keep up with developments and have been putting up all Australian approved OC6's that I know of with links to Manufacturers etc.
Check out <ahref"http://miocc.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/new-oc6-specifications/">http://miocc.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/new-oc6-specifications/</ahref"http://miocc.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/new-oc6-specifications/">
#22 Tue, 07/06/2010 - 5:15pm
Some info about who made what first etc could be wrong and would appreciate any input.
#23 Tue, 07/06/2010 - 5:16pm
One more correction, Phillip Bernadino did not build the ROC canoe, or at least not from scratch. The original mold was donated to the Cook Islands Canoe Association by Jean Claude Brander, the legendary canoe shaper from Tahiti.
Phillip took this design, took about another 1m out of the middle section (i.e. shortened it) plus a few other modifications and made another plug out of that, which became the ROC canoe that you'll see today if you visit Rarotonga. We still paddle the 'plug' around!!
The resulting shape is therefore distinctively Rarotongan, but has evolved from an earlier Tahitian shape from Brander. Each and every canoe thereafter was built by Mena, a Tahitian naturalised Cook Islander and a former World Champion paddler herself. A huge debt is owed to her, Ti Pekepo, Phillipe and of course, Brander for really taking canoeing in the Cook Islands as far as it is now, with the latest evolution being the new Taimana, again designed and built in the Cook Islands and shaped by Romeo (of 'Shell Va'a' fame). Romeo is one of the few I know who can actually shape out an entire racing va'a from a single log! He has an incredible eye - a gifted canoe shaper.
So there you go, I thought since people were talking story about the history of the ROC canoe, I would add some background.
The thing I have noticed having paddled all around the Pacific, is that the canoes have evolved to suit their environment (to a degree), except maybe in Hawaii, where the rules are more rigid. All canoes seem to come from 'common ancestors', where someone will take n existing canoe shape and modify it to some degree or another... this is particularly true in Tahiti, and the practised eye of a master shaper can often tell the lineage of this canoe or that.
Manuia.
#24 Wed, 07/07/2010 - 6:25pm
Hey CoconutRay, was the old rusty mould laying over the road from the CIC shed the original ROC one? It was there in 2008 but was removed in 2009. I have a photo of it somewhere
Found it
Rambo
#25 Wed, 07/07/2010 - 7:43pm
The ROC is actually built by Scott Wheeler and others at Currumbin and sold by Harvey Allison (well known photographer) who has many contacts in Cook islands and rarotonga. Scott did a number of modifications to the “plug” he recieved (including fairing) and is building them using a Fibreglass/Foam core construction
Not quite correct Latman, Scotty wouldn't know one end of a canoe from the other, it's just that the boys freak when I pick up power tools as you never know what might happen, I can assure you I was directing operations ( much to everyone's distress) when we designed the deck & made the changes, particularly up the front end !, the ama was shaped by Dietzy .. again while I watched, don't know why they won't let me help though, I always seem to get told to go play with my cameras !
#26 Wed, 07/07/2010 - 8:01pm
Here she is racing at Hammo
#27 Wed, 07/07/2010 - 8:08pm
Thats the one Rambo - not looking too flash these days!
#28 Wed, 07/07/2010 - 10:07pm
Ummm ....piece of history there. Maybe she could be given a better resting place or at least a firery send off and ashes scattered off the Boiler. You guys could then drink to her memories at "Traders". Or maybe have a ceremony at Vaka Eiva this year to bid her farewell.
#29 Wed, 07/07/2010 - 10:30pm
Heading to the Gold Coast tomorrow to pick up our very own Tiger ROC......:0)
#30 Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:06am
we want pictures!
#31 Tue, 11/30/2010 - 9:10am