What they paddle...

Count of boats used for Molo Solo this year...
Pueo: 38
Kai Wa`a: 27
Hurricane: 7
Other: 12

Submitted by mauitim on Sun, 04/18/2010 - 9:01pm



All recent models are nice boats, in my opinion. There was a Pahoa rider that also did real well yesterday.

But for a fair assessment when doing such a count:
How many of each of those paddlers may have been sponsored ?

It may be a few only, but for such a small sample it may make a difference.

When you see the average speed of the top 10 -15 paddlers, you realize how much better their technique is.


#1 Mon, 04/19/2010 - 1:26pm


MauiTim,

To clarify, your list shows two things. A canoe type and manufactures.

So you should break out the Kai Waa with Pegasus, Scorpius, and Scorpious XM.

Also I think if Danny C. was on a Scorpius XM, he probably would have won also.


#2 Mon, 04/19/2010 - 8:14am


Not only did the canoe make a statement, but the paddle that Danny used as well, MUDBROOKS.


#3 Mon, 04/19/2010 - 1:18pm


I had a mudbrook before, it's a good light paddle. But I snapped it too easy, do they make ones with carbon fiber reinforcements? Maybe that would be better....


#4 Mon, 04/19/2010 - 1:28pm


i didnt matter what danny was in or what paddle he used.. i had a talk with him and if you new how hard he trainned you would know why he won..


#5 Mon, 04/19/2010 - 5:37pm


If you (or even Danny) could elaborate on his training regimen, I'd really like to know


#6 Tue, 04/20/2010 - 5:45am


I'm pretty sure this is the winning training program:

  1. Paddle as hard as you can, as often as you can, as long as you can. Ignore family, work, and school.
  2. Be fairly young.
  3. Have good genetics.
  4. Eat good food.
  5. If you're still losing races, spend a ton of money on a really nice boat and paddle.

Most paddlers I know skip straight to number 5.


#7 Tue, 04/20/2010 - 6:11am


not to disagree w/ anyone but as close as the race was, i'm sure the boat makes a difference. a bunch of my friends jumped on pueos and they became considerably faster. i think the only paddler who can win on any of the so-called top boats is karel. not to diss the other top guys but if you put karel in a pueo or scorpius xm he'd kill it, if you put say danny or jimmy in a zephyr i don't think they'd stand a chance against karel in the channel on a day like the 2010 crossing. again, not cutting down the other guys cuz they're frickin unreal paddlers too but i think the boat plays a big role too. it would be great if they had a race where they all had to use the same brand of boat, sorta like when nascar had the IROC race where all the drivers drove identical cars. does anyone know if like karel jumped on a scorpius or pueo or if kai jumped on a pueo and what they might've thought about the competition's boat?


#8 Wed, 04/21/2010 - 9:02pm


lilo - interesting argument.
I think another explanation is possible:

Karel built his boats over 15 years with constant feed back from Karel Jr. - Kai Bartlett not for that many years, but same principle.

They do not just build boats, but they build boats that are faster - check their channel winning records. Their boats are optimized to win the channel - the 'only race that counts' ( for some).
Of course they check if their improvements make the boat faster - it is not a guessing game, because winning the channel is needed for the reputation of a boat.

Zephyr and Scorpius XL are customized to fit the main paddler, Karel Jr and Kai.

The Outrigger Connection boats have medium to big wave abilities that other boats probably do not have - if you trust the winning records. Second best downwind surfing boats should be from Kai Bartlett. I don't think that there can be much debate about that.

The Pueo a very pleasant boat to paddle; very pleasant and very good in many ways. I'd recommend it for many.

But I do not see an argument that it is the fastest medium to big wave OC 1, with the best surfing abilities downwind.
By the winning records, the fastest downwind boats over the last decade are Outrigger Connection models.

Karel sees no reason to switch boats because he believes in his design and wins most of the time. Kai Bartlett has no reason to switch because he comes in at the top without too much preparation on his own boat.

The channel record was not broken.

Customization is the key in my opinion.

It looks as if Jimmy Austin could sit a bit more forward in the boat - just my personal impression for the fun of it. Customizing the boat to his dimensions might make him faster, quite sure it would. Same is true for anybody else.

It is time to make OC 1 with movable foot pedals to allow everybody to adjust the trim of the boat - my next project.

Sitting too far behind, the boat is squatting. It makes more sense to enter a race with a boat well trimmed.


#9 Wed, 04/21/2010 - 10:16pm


howzit eckhart, you say the boat with the winningest record in the Molo crossing are the OC boats. do you mean the total of all boats entered or just 1st place. junior has has won like 7 of the last 12 or so, so it would make sense if you're talking just about 1st place. if thats the case , why aren't there more OC boats being paddled in the Molo race? there was like only a few. you'd think that with juniors record there'd be more. people i've talked to and who are regarded as excellent paddlers all say the pueo has made them faster and that it is a better overall boat than say a scorpius xl/xm. keep in mind that they have paddled both boats. BUT almost all agree that the bigger the bumps...... the scorpius is better. the pueo is hands-down THE hottest boat right now with the kai waa boats right behind. also, the wainui is being produced in china and looked very good at kaimana last week where it was being demoed. another new boat is the ale nui haha from the big island, also a very nice looking boat. my friend paddles a pueo and swears by his boat but he did a hi-kai run on the ale nui haha and said it was pretty good and for the price was well worth buying. run to kaimana was on an average day and it seemed like the boat surfed really well and he was still fast so i guess the boat must be pretty good. i think karel needs to come out with another boat, it doesn't seem as if the osprey has really caught on with the local paddlers.maybe these two boats from the outter islands will give kamanu and kai waa some "rubs" .


#10 Wed, 04/21/2010 - 11:17pm


But can we really use destination-races as a gauge for the most popular, or more importantly, the most-winning (fastest) boat?

Reasoning: most competitors have to travel to these races without their preferred boats and are left with what is available...a great marketing opportunity for manufacturers to make their top boats available at these races and then use the numbers as proof of popularity....


#11 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 6:09am


In my opinion, the fastest boat is the one paddled by the guy who trains the hardest and smartest and combines that with the best water knowledge as well as an extreme level of comfort on whatever boat it is they are paddling.

I know guys who say a Pueo is hands down the best canoe. I know guys who say the Scorpius is hands down the best canoe. Me personally, I dont like the way a Pueo moves compared to my XM and would never want to own one. I have friends who say the exact opposite. Bottom line is that not every canoe is for everybody. I still recommend guys try both. Just because there are mass numbers of a particular kind of product doesnt make it the best hands down. There are a lot of great boats right now which is great compared to 2 years ago when there was only 1. Now you have Pueo's, XM's, and Beanie form the Big Island has built a really nice new canoe that looks like a direct competitor to both. Selection is great!


#12 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 8:41am


It is time to make OC 1 with movable foot pedals to allow everybody to adjust the trim of the boat - my next project.

Just mold the front part of a surfski's cockpit... should not be that difficult.


#13 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 9:32am


Interesting. eckhart does make a good argument. OC boats have won the most and hold the records.

Some questions pop into my head:
Will we ever know which boat is fastest?
Is there really a faster boat?
Isn't it the paddler that makes the difference? Or is it the boat? Or is it both?
Do conditions matter?
Are there fads in the OC-1 industry? Is a popular boat popular because its fast or because its what everyone wants?

I don't think we'll ever know what boat is the fastest and I'm starting to think there isn't necessarily is a faster boat. Too much emphasis on the boat and not training. But it does make for some good reading at work when I'm suppose to be doing a lot of other stuff.


#14 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 10:26am


poopoo said a bunch of stuff, but I liked this question the best:

Will we ever know which boat is fastest?

Only if it's defined under a very specific set of conditions that may or may not have any bearing at all on paddling in the real world.

IVF World Sprints is a test of paddlers where everyone is paddling the same model canoe. Moloka'i, the various Aito races in Tahiti, your local race is a test of a paddler and his/her chosen canoe. A good paddler in a poorly chosen canoe will (generally) beat a bad paddler in the greatest canoe ever (i.e. I think the paddler generally has more influence than the canoe in results).

Has anyone considered part of the appeal of the Kamanu canoes is they're local? I know some OC and Kai Wa'a canoes are made in Hawai'i, but how many out of the total number sold of each?


#15 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 11:19am


I'm sure I'll get jumped all over for this comment but it doesn't seem like anyone has brought this up.

Has anybody been feeling the boats lately. The reason I love my pueo so much is that it is super strong and stiff (foam core). Just like in a 6 man canoe a foam core boat is stiffer and in my opinion way faster (The main reason why most top crews race foam core 6 mans). Putting (devinisil??) foam in the place of core-matt i have noticed a tremendous difference in speed on the water. The boat doesn't seem to bog down while on the water because the stiffness doesn't allow the boat to move which in turn the ocean doesn't absorb the energy from the boat. When Kamanu used to just use foam for the hull I thought that was a step in the right direction, but now that they use it for the deck and hull, its made the boat in my opinion that much better. So lets hear what everyone else has to say! Foam core or no foam core.


#16 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 11:59am


Not sure about the foam core but great to see the commitment from the likes of yourself and Manny in their training and racing . Look forward to seeing if this new level across the singles can translate to the sixes (molokai and HNV) good stuff boys.


#17 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 1:03pm


I think the starting point was if Karel Jr or Kai would be faster on a different canoe - maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. They would likely not switch and still win their races. In my opinion they would not get faster by switching unto another brand.

The two most successful paddlers paddle their own design - they hold the record and hold the wins.

The Pueo is not my fastest boat outright - I have a modified Hurricane which is faster up to 10 knot wind conditions.

In a longer race - windward to Waikiki for example - both boats have about the same overall performance:
the Hurricane is better in the flat and protected sections, the Pueo is better in medium and downwind conditions.

Thus, my ranking:

fastest - customized
downwind - Outrigger Connection
allround - Pueo
flat - Hurricane

(have not paddled Scorpius or others much)

Hiro - the 'problem' is the distance to the front iaku - move it forward, bend it ??


#18 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 2:15pm


If you move it forward, you will also move the 'ama forward... ? Not sure it's a good thing.


#19 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 4:03pm


Hiro - ama rather further back for my taste.


#20 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 8:16pm


Just go paddle and have fun! Use/buy the canoe that works for you. All this technical stuff is meaningless especially when preached by people who don't really know what makes a canoe work. Just like with surfing, do your thing and have fun. Kelly Slater and the boys would laugh at this forum with all the whiners and people trying to justify one design over another. Just like the top paddlers, they train hard and know their particular equipment. Like the bumper sticker says, "shut up and paddle!" If you really think it is the canoe, then run out and buy it and get your butt kicked until you are ready to commit to hard training and dialing in your equipment. Time on the....water - works for the pro surfers as well as the good paddlers and any other athlete at the top of their game. As with all sports, it is not the running shoe but the runner, not the golf club but the golfer, not the surfboard but the surfer. Marketing may try to get you to think differently but that is their job! Anyone for a great surf run tomorrow?!


#21 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 8:43pm


what time?! im always ready to paddle with different people


#22 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 9:08pm


I agree with paddlefast. I like the back and forth on the boats but I am obviously a little biased towards mine and others are probly a little biased towards theirs. Bottom line is my boat is super fun for me and I feel like it makes me a better paddler and surfer. I also feel like it has taken me to the next level in the overall paddle scheme of things. I think anyone should paddle whatever does that same sort of thing for them. Unless its a china canoe that breaks in half.....


#23 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 9:29pm


"All this technical stuff is meaningless especially when preached by people who don't really know what makes a canoe work."

What technical stuff are you talking about and who in particular doesn't know what they're talking about?

And why would Kelly Slater be against a discussion on canoe design and performance?

And who exactly is whining?

Sorry, I'm just super confused and am having trouble understanding your post.

Actually, I do understand your post, I just don't understand where you're coming from.

In my opinion, this type of open dialogue is necessary for our sport to grow and progress. Every thread about equipment always goes back to the idea that it is a worthless topic for the non-elite paddlers to discuss. I don't understand where that sort of sentiment comes from. Of course the top athletes train their asses off, but they are also meticulous about what they are using (from paddles to canoes to apparel). Wouldn't everyone want to educate themselves as much as possible and put the same level of thought into what they are paddling with/ on/ in?


#24 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 9:51pm


in none of the above posts is there a hint of "whining", just paddlers giving their opinion on whether boats can possibly make you a faster paddler etc. as far as kelly slater and the boys laughing at paddlers trying to justify the merits of one canoe design over another is bullshit. i'll bet that kelly and the boys also discuss the what their respective shapers are creating for them to ride, i.e: rocker, vee, wings, fin placement/size, channels/no channels, width, thickness, materials,etc. i totally agree with you that time on the water and training is probably the biggest factor in a paddlers performance. however, to say that it's the runner not the shoe, the golfer not the club, and the surfer not the surfboard is ridiculous. have you ever compared a running shoe to a track shoe? the difference in weight is unreal. i would think that must be a factor in a runners performance. golf clubs? i don't golf but i'm sure the materials used in the clubs must play a role performance wise. as far as surfing, equipment is a huge factor. as good as kelly is, theres no way he beats andy if he surfs on a single-fin roundpin and andy surfs on his regular equipment in optimum waves. board design plays a huge part in performance. you are definitely right about paddling what suits you best and training hard. have a good run tomorrow and may you catch every bump you go after my bruddah! aurrriiite!!!


#25 Thu, 04/22/2010 - 10:19pm


paddlefast - who are you ? You take your advice from a bumper sticker ? Then just follow what it says :).

Do you really have no interest in boat design ? That would be like a surfer not being interested in the design of his board - that simply does not exist.


#26 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 9:20pm


I bought the latest and hopefully best boat (Pueo for me right now) so I can eliminate the boat as the cause for slow paddling and train harder without second thoughts about my equipment.


#27 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 6:56am


"Just go paddle and have fun! Use/buy the canoe that works for you..... all the whiners and people trying to justify one design over another."

lilo, dont wanna split hairs here, but, more than a hint, eh?


#28 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 7:33am


painteur, I think if everyone had your mentality there would be a lot more faster paddlers out there.

Luke's right. And personally, I'd imagine Kelly Slater was deeply involved in the design of his boards that he rode and had many discussions with people on what works better or worse.


#29 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 8:59am


Like all pro surfers, Kelly Slater is super meticulous with his equipment. If you've looked back at the last couple of years Kelly has been playing with board and fin designs with Al Merrick. For a contest, out of 20 boards, Kelly will ride them all and probably pick 2. Now paddlers that are doing well are not only having training plans (which incorporates long hours of paddling, sprints, running, and weight training, etc.) but like Kelly and Al Merrick they are working with canoe builders on what they want in their canoe to make it that much more efficient, thus going back to customization which was discussed earlier. For example, lighter carbon, eliminate stringer in certain areas of hull, foam core on deck and hull, adjustment of weight, shorter 'iako's, modified seats and seating relationship to the sweet spot on the canoe.

Once you got the canoe and training dialed in, then you figure out fuel and recovery supplements that work for that individual then on to paddling lengths and sizes that gives the paddler the most efficient stroke cadence and power phase application.

Like paddlers, pro surfers now are becoming recognize more as athletes where they bring along their strength and fitness coach along on tour, dial in equipment with accordance to the spot, and also are taking energy supplements prior to heats. Especially now World Tour wins bring in $75,000 to $100,000 for first place where last year first place made $25,000.00.

Straying away from main topic but the point is dialing in equipment is very important.

Carlton


#30 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 10:41am


I belive it was American Olympic Champion Greg Barton that said " he who could stay strongest the longest wins." So with that, let's get technical: Where all three Pueo canoes that clean swept the Steinlager exactly the same? That is: where they all tuned up the same? Same weight for the hull, ama, and iako? Same distance seat to pedals? Same seat height? Same rake or distance of ama to hull? Looked like the winning iako was aluminum and carbon for 2nd place? What where the differences, if any, of the canoes? How about the rudder? Stock or custom? I'm just curious as to what else can be done by a paddler to customize his/her canoe after picking it up brand new from its creator?


#31 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 12:30pm


Step one:

If flat / mild......

Get rid of ( switch to smaller ) those huge rudders ... Not talking V-1 either.

Instant, undenyable results.

aloha,
pog


#32 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 2:10pm


not sure about the lay ups used on the first three boats. the iako were all the same. one of them just had aluminum ones that were painted black.


#33 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 2:54pm


the top paddlers, they train hard and know their particular equipment

@ paddlefast : That is exactly what those discussions are about... knowing what works and what doesn't, trying to understand what makes a difference with our equipment. top paddlers don't just "paddle and shut up"


#34 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 3:01pm


koakanoe - on the short video clip it looks to me as if Jimmy is sitting a bit too far back - I am interested in that because I am usually sitting far back myself. Yet he surfs well on that short clip.

It would be interesting to hear from Jimmy what he thinks of the trim of his canoe - doesn't matter, dialed in, not yet optimized ?


#35 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 4:35pm


numerouno, i'm not sure what you're trying to say but i'll try. here goes: " more than a hint", do you mean i should just go out and paddle and have fun? i do that every single time i paddle/train, if it wasn't fun, why the hell would i or anyone else continue to do it? for the most part, we love to paddle because of the workout it provides for our bodies, the connection we feel with the ocean and especially doing a downhill surf run with friends or other paddlers. the group i paddle with encompasses many skill levels. age, male or female: everyone goes as hard as they can on our runs. they all want to be the best that they can be which is why they train and buy the best equipment that they can afford and suits them best. i know this for a fact, while theres alot of comraderie and good-natured ribbing; NO ONE WANTS TO HIT THE BEACH LAST! there are just as many paddlers that don't race and just wanna paddle because they like to be on the water and cruise. the bottom line is we do it because we love it! again, nowhere do i see anyone whining. could it be possible that you're whining that the rest of us are just having a discussion on different boats and how they affect the performance of the paddler? the boat that i paddle now is the best boat. why? because it's the only one i have at this time. it's a great boat but probably not best suited for me because of my size which is why i ordered a pueo. i've done runs on my friends pueos and the improvement in times is considerably faster. this is why these forums can be so great, it gives paddlers the oppurtunity to discuss canoe design, training methods, proper technique and theories. i will never paddle as fast as jimmy or luke, nor have luke's knowledge of canoe design but jimmy made sense when he talked about the rigidity/stiffness of his boat and the effects it has on performance. learn something new everyday! FUN! that's the main reason i paddle, hope you understand bro'. take care and aloha!


#36 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 5:15pm


My apologies for some of my comments. Most important, let's have fun - that is what it is all about. Nothing cures a bad day better than a great surf run! Yes the right equipment and heavy training make the paddler fast.


#37 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 5:20pm


koakanoe - the canoe market is limited to what we have, not many custom items are readily available.

Many people shape the seat, but that is about it. To make a custom rudder is already an undertaking, it takes a while to learn how to do that and then you can only guess how it may work.
You can change your ama, make it wider, change the rocker, move it etc - not too difficult, but also not very much yield - you do it once, it may work, it may not work, are you going to do it again ? Is it worth it ?
You can change the iakus, same problems.

As many others I do these things as a hobby. But I am not changing an ama 10 times just to get a little faster.

The most compelling change would be an extended foot well with adjustable foot pedals, so that the paddler can move not only his seat, but his entire position.

The nice thing about that would be that you can 'customize' your paddling without additional expense.


#38 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 8:36pm


Eckhart, that is something i also think is important, and have been planning on doing for a while. Maybe one of these years i'll get some time.


#39 Fri, 04/23/2010 - 11:04pm


Sorry Eckhart, but I can't tell how far back in relation to the rear iako was Jimmy sitting compared to Danny? However, like the old saying: "to the victor remains the spoils," I'd sure wish that I could eavesdrop on the post race critique with the three top finishers and the designers of the their canoes. Bet there was a wealth of info shared that will no doubt be incorporated into future Kamanu Composite canoes? Now that's called propriotary information worth gold.

ps: Foodland now selling 4 pack pints of Bitburger for $5.99 ($2 off reg. price).


#40 Sat, 04/24/2010 - 2:39am


Running with Eckhart's idea of adjustable foot pedals, a question for folks with knowledge of V-1 design. Why do you put the seat where it is? I've never measured the location or really looked too closely at the placement, but I'm guessing it's placed to give the canoe optimal trim?


#41 Sat, 04/24/2010 - 2:45am


koacanoe - You can see where they sit on the video clip. I know the measurements of the relative seat positions of the top paddlers as I am interested in this. A friend paddled with Jimmy's seat today here in Kailua - if I understood that correctly - I took a look at it.
But the discussion is not meant to be about the race, rather how important an adjustable trim might be.
And Jimmy would probably talk about what he thinks of his equipment only after a win or not at all to maybe have an edge the next time :)
(I don't know Jimmy personally.)

By the way, what about Danny's leg position in the video clip ?
If you would agree that his legs could be a little more stretched, then it would make sense for him as well - not being a taller paddler - to move the footwells. In this case not for trim but to allow free rotation of the upper body. I read somewhere that the thighs should be close to horizontal to ease the rotation. Makes sense to me.

Don Quijote has the price all the time - but it is a 4-pack - that is too much for me. As you know beer should not be allowed to see the sun rise and refrigerating beer at home is something that just cannot be done.

I wondered about the V1 seat; it does have enough space to move forward/backward on it when needed ?


#42 Sat, 04/24/2010 - 3:47am


information like this is great for canoe builders and people like me, who have no clue on specs.i for one do not own a oc1 or even paddle for a club. i have 2 boys who are paddling and i am intrested in getting 2 oc1s for them. this type of info is valuable, to those who havent the slightest clue. well looking forward to reading more or any type of info on oc1s. aloha.


#43 Sat, 04/24/2010 - 8:42am


This is interesting about leg position. I see many photos where paddlers have their knees up high in the
air, legs very bent. it It feels a little stronger to have some bend in the leg as opposed to straight legs. I had wondered about how the foot wells are configured in different boats and how that might change the appearance of
the paddlers posture.


#44 Sat, 04/24/2010 - 9:12am


Eckhart: you get a different tune everytime the seat is moved fore or aft, even a few centimeters at a time. Even raising or lowering the height of the seat will impact the tune. Perhaps in Jimmy's case, sitting further back might help in counteracting the additional volume behind the seat (so the canoe won't feel like pearling)? Maybe his reach is too long on the left side? Perhaps sitting further back allows his blade to enter the water much closer to the centerline of the hull? Years ago, I use to fill up the footwells of the Naia with foam and leave a little bit near the pedals, so I could steer with my toes while pushing off with the balls of my foot at the same time sitting way way back on the removable hard contoured composite seat. Today, I just place the soft removable foam seat as far forward as my knees permit. Perhaps it has something to do with age? Less flexability?

ps: and finally Kailua now has more than one surfski paddler, you and Stewart...................any more?


#45 Sat, 04/24/2010 - 10:34am


koacanoe: you are right, moving forward will not be ideal in all conditions.

If you want to paddle with a strong leg drive - your legs need the position/range of motion like on a bike, that is up to almost stretched.

Then you engage the balls of the foot as you describe, too. It brings your ankle joint into play and you can develop more instant force like in a jump. For that you need a larger foot plate.
A good solution may be the entire footplate being the pedal, pivoting around a bar at about 2/3 rds of its height.

Knees up in the air is a 'favorite' paddling position - it raises the center of gravity, does not allow you to push,
locks in your hips, limits rotation of your lower spine , crowds your guts, pushes up your diaphragm... you name it.

On a Hurricane moving the foot well has been very efficient; it may also work on other models.

We may talk about a 1 - 2 % gain only, may be more - but why not ?


#46 Sat, 04/24/2010 - 3:29pm


Kailua is full of surfski paddlers - they are paddling OC 1 right now.

Once they are more comfortable with their balance and the ocean, they will come out on a surfski. :)


#47 Sat, 04/24/2010 - 3:35pm


i have just read the comments on this blog.... Paddlefast i agree with your earlier post ! I think of it as buying a motor boat..... there are lots of different hull designs Force, Hawaiian Cat, Sea doo doo .... and it does make a difference if you slap a 50 on a 30ft force compared to twin volvo diesel engines.... The motor has to match the boat but you also dont go out and buy a brand new force maybe you start with a sea doo. I belive the same with our sport and surfboards......Luke i agree with you but you being so into what your riding, your paddle, all that well........ most of the non elite paddlers cant worry so much about that. I dont know about you but when your starting any sport you dont get the opportuninty to " worry about" you equipment so much. My first couple surfboards i couldnt complain that they were not the best, or top quality thats what i had so i had to work with what i had... my first paddle same thing hand me down double bend( thats in style now) that weighed so much but thats what i had... had i been worried so much about my equipment i would have givin up...... ive always felt that its not the shapers fault you dont rip....good post you guys....


#48 Sun, 04/25/2010 - 5:43pm


lilo, dont feel so important that I was ripping on you; rather, I was merely pointing out that your observation that no one was whining was incorrect.

that is all.


#49 Mon, 04/26/2010 - 7:30am


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