After spending all summer on my ski I started paddling my OC1 again in some decent wind conditions we have been getting . Not being as nimble on the one man as on the ski I found myself broaching often enough to get frustrated and started thinking I picked up some kind of technical error by not paddling the canoe for a while, only the ski. Any thoughts?
Zumapop
Submitted by zumapop on Thu, 08/25/2011 - 4:00pm
What's broaching?
#1 Thu, 08/25/2011 - 4:49pm
Broaching, as in sailing, where the bow of the boat veers upwind due to wind forces on the boat for which the rudder cannot compensate? Or a different kind of broaching?
#2 Thu, 08/25/2011 - 4:52pm
Seriously????.....I guess its a word used in sailing that paddle boarders (not SUP) have used to describe an unwelcome veering of your board (or boat in the case of an OC1 in my my case) starboard (right) despite my efforts to correct
#3 Thu, 08/25/2011 - 5:05pm
a) get a better rudder
b) get a better boat
c) fly da ama
d) switch back to ski
#4 Thu, 08/25/2011 - 5:37pm
It sounds like ama steer. It happens when your leaning heavy on the ama. Try rigging ama at a medium to tippy setting and then paddle with your weight off to the right side away from the ama. Good Luck!
#5 Thu, 08/25/2011 - 6:56pm
Maintain boat speed so that your rudder doesn't stall and stay high on the runner slightly off angle. Paddlesteer off your blade so the Ama is lighter. Go watch the USSS Champs video in the other thread, you will see what the elite guys are doing in the downwind section after half way. It's not OC but same principle.
#6 Thu, 08/25/2011 - 9:00pm
Some times you got to anticipate and paddle steer. No rely on your rudder all the time or else the buggah going break away. So if paddling on right, crab out diagonally and pull the tail to the blade. If paddling on the left, geeve um one hard j-stroke for push the tail away. This way, the nose should swing to the left, maybe, if not too late?
#7 Thu, 08/25/2011 - 8:52pm
At times it could help to push with your feet, and twist with your hips. sound like a dance move.
#8 Fri, 08/26/2011 - 6:15am
Yep- sound like too much weight on the ama - or just getting into the wave a bit late where the rudder breaks free.
MAny good answers above. Time on the water.
#9 Fri, 08/26/2011 - 9:32am
If you're compressing the ama, the break away is mostly left. For zumapop, the break away is right. So compressing the ama might help, in this case? That is let the ama pull the nose left? Unless the ama is on the right (Makaha style) for surfing purposes?
#10 Fri, 08/26/2011 - 11:26am
Watch K jr paddle, he is the master of the non broach. Where most people broach, he slingshots
#11 Fri, 08/26/2011 - 12:47pm
Rambo- how do you recommend we watch K Jr surf?
#12 Fri, 08/26/2011 - 1:24pm
Good advice....I think its mostly about the ama, never been a real issue on a ski, and really just started OC1 about a year ago
#13 Fri, 08/26/2011 - 1:25pm
@Healthyearth, chase him down on an OC2 ...haha. If I wasn't such a slack-arse, I'd post some of the video of Jr from a few years ago in OZ.
#14 Fri, 08/26/2011 - 1:46pm
zumapop: if it was the ama, then I wonder why you broach right? On a DH run, I use to broach left on a two man until I helped out the rudder by paddle steering. There are some things that come to mind after paddling a ski yesterday: first is oversteering (too much rudder) a ski is rare because the sweeping/carving out wing paddle stroke automatically corrects this. So I'd install the bungee cord/cords for the foot pedals in an oc1 in such a way that they straighten out the pedals automatically and immediately after releasing foot pressure (surf life saver style). This way preventing rudder stall when pushing down opposite pedal for correct (if no more cam). And 3rd, the basic problem is probably the lack of foot straps on an oc1, which interferes with your rhythm and cadence? You're locked into pushing and lifting those legs on every stroke in a ski, so no more the same power and speed in the canoe. That's why the wave can slam your tail and the canoe buckaloose?
#15 Sat, 08/27/2011 - 10:36am
pearling...that's how i usually describe it if the canoe starts to spin out! just another term to use.
#16 Sat, 08/27/2011 - 12:22pm
Rambo - I say post those videos up!!! whatever happened to those videos of the molo solo. Danny, Karel, and Kai all had a video and they were awesome
#17 Sat, 08/27/2011 - 3:46pm
@mojohojo: "Pearling" happens when the tip of your surfboard, kanu, or whatever dives nose-first into the water.
#18 Tue, 08/30/2011 - 3:13am
My take: Broaching is a combination of 2 factors: 1. The canoe (ski) tail wants to go faster than the nose, and 2. The boat is trying to make too tight of a turn, stalling the rudder. The typical broach happens when these factors unite as a paddler allows the boat to surf too low on the wave, slowing the nose relative to the tail, and then mashes the rudder to try and keep the boat in line. Skilled paddlers never broach because they're maintaining faster speeds (rudder less likely to stall) and stay higher on the face of the wave (nose going just as fast as tail) and I'm guessing they use a pretty light touch on the rudder as well.
I think in general canoes are easier to control in surf, because they have more rocker than the 21' racing skis. On the skis however, you can tilt the boat right and left to help you turn. If you lean your hips and let the boat sit on the right gunnel, the boat wants to go left, and vice versa. In the canoe, you can't really lean too far left because of the ama. It's also possible in the canoe to unwittingly rig the boat permanently tilted one way or another (usually left towards the ama) which would have a big effect on boat control in broach situations.
The newer "dagger" style high-aspect rudders are much more prone to stalling than the older rudders that were shorter, but wider and fatter. The wave blade rudder was really wide and blobby, and that thing was almost impossible to stall. I could hold the boat at crazy angles on steep faces and the tail just wouldn't break out. OC's zephyr had a rudder option very similar to the wave blade version. The high aspect rudders have low drag, and give a much snappier response, but I prefer the feel of the old school barn door rudders.
#19 Tue, 08/30/2011 - 7:54am
Very nice pswitz. I guess you've taken the place of Echart Diestel (btw-my favorite name in the world besides the NASCAR drive Dick Trickle) with excellent detailed commentary. Not only am I posting this to Pat Pswitz on the back, but I am trying to find out what happened to one of the great minds on this sight, Echart Diestel. Does anyone know where he went.
Is there a "Where are they now?" section on OCP.com. Really!! What happened to one of the great minds on OCPaddler.com? Is he still locked in his garrage working on the paddle with bullet holes in it.
#20 Tue, 08/30/2011 - 1:45pm
internet addiction rehab...
#21 Thu, 09/01/2011 - 9:06am
Eck!! .. He falls off the wagon from time to time and appears briefly. I think he would be happy if someone locked him in the garage with his tools and ideas and threw away the key.
#22 Thu, 09/01/2011 - 11:15am
About Eck?
From what I heard, he's a very busy professional with a lot of kids he's raising all by himself. How he finds time to train, race and share his knowledge with us on the internet is amazing. So whenever he occasionally pops up, I really do appreciate it.
#23 Thu, 09/01/2011 - 11:37am
Check his website regular, always some god info there.
http://www.oc1design.blogspot.com
#24 Thu, 09/01/2011 - 2:15pm
Thanks Rambo, I'll check this out.
#25 Fri, 09/02/2011 - 11:02am