Flatwater rudder

I need some advice on the best rudder for flatwater paddling in an outrigger canoe (oc1 or oc2). When I am talking flatwater, I am talking no bumps at all too, like on a calm lake with no waves. The primary purpose of what I am looking for is SPEED. All help on this is greatly appreciated.

Submitted by Rapid Transit on Wed, 04/20/2011 - 7:55am



popsicle sticks


#1 Wed, 04/20/2011 - 9:17am


If it is flat, why bother with a rudder? Use a pitched stroke and you'll track as straight as an arrow. You might even surprise yourself and keep up with the V-1s?


#2 Wed, 04/20/2011 - 11:00am


I know Jude at Huki sells a variety of aftermarket rudders ranging from 4"-10".


#3 Wed, 04/20/2011 - 11:31am


Thanks for the help so far. In terms of the ones sold by various manufacturers, what shape should I look for? I know that thinner is better, but I am not sure about shape. In terms of the rudder's turning ability, in my mind, for what I need the boat for manuverability takes a back seat to speed.

We would use popsicle sticks, but we ran out of them using them all for paddles.


#4 Thu, 04/21/2011 - 8:38am


RT:
I'm currently paddling and racing a Huki V2-X that is sporting the short, 4" rudder. It works like a dream on our rivers and lakes. Well designed and moves our boat around nicely.

Apologies for any in appropriate endorcement. My bad.


#5 Thu, 04/21/2011 - 12:23pm


For what its worth ... I right now almost threw up viewing the BLATENT COPY of MY DESIGN.

FACKIN A.

More painful than seeing the one from China.

most sincerly,
pat
designer / builder of the the p-41 rudder here.
http://www.onnopaddles.com/components.html
edit for link


#6 Thu, 04/21/2011 - 11:52am


Why change it now Osprey ?

This it the link Osprey edited out of his post that set me off ...

http://rivermiles.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1293994300/0

aloha,
pog


#7 Thu, 04/21/2011 - 1:53pm


Pog, I'm not sure what more I can do here. I did apologize and deleted the offending reference. I'm not guilty of anything here and I even deleted the reference.

For reference and full disclosure, I don't have a stake whatsoever in these rudders ... I didn't design the rudders, I don't build the rudders, I don't sell the rudders. I don't have a personal knowledge of every rudder builder out there to know whose designs are whose ... which is an unrealistic expectation.

You asked "Why change it now, Osprey ?" Deleting it was the right thing to do. It caused conflict on the forum and therefore was important to delete it. This particular forum thread was about providing information for someone who asked about flatwater rudders. I didn't want to hijack the forum thread with a discusion of counterfit equipment design. That is the answer to your question of why I deleted the reference.

Dan "Osprey" Grubbs


#8 Fri, 04/22/2011 - 4:39am


Correct me if I'm wrong... But wasn't this thread initially about OC-1 rudders in the first place?


#9 Fri, 04/22/2011 - 6:05am


Yes. I was interested in understern rudders and the design of those rudders. More specifically, rudder length, and shape and the logic behind it.


#10 Fri, 04/22/2011 - 6:27am


Pog,

I'm not trying to fan the fire here but why are you getting so upset over this guy's rudder? After examining his kick-up versus yours, it is true that there are quite a few similiarities. But, there are also quite a few differences as well. Apparently, you both have created a quality product that people are quite satisfied with, but this could be your opportunity to go ahead and modify your product to regain that competitive edge.

It's called capitalism brotha, and he may or may not have seen your design and taken aspects from it...Nobody knows but him. That being said, I really don't think flying off the handle on public forums is going to really help the situation at all IMO.


#11 Fri, 04/22/2011 - 6:33am


@Rapid

Check this out. Jude from Huki is great to work with and I'm certain that he can hook you up with the right rudder that you're looking for.

http://www.huki.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1


#12 Fri, 04/22/2011 - 6:37am


Thanks Kleki,

I don't fly off the handle on much but but this stuff is my life and hits home. No problem with someone making a cheap rudder either buttt......

Not sure what kind of work you do but when you spend a whole bunch of your life developing, working on and REFINING this stuff, its painful to see it copied. I built about 12 different ( looking ) designs before deciding on this one + its been on my website for years so not buying he never saw it. I guess I should not get so wound up by it since it DOES have some major stuff wrong that shows he doesn't get it + it looks like a 6th grader built it.

Originally came to this thread to talk about/ recommend Judes 4" and 6" blades. Can even go smaller than that BTW for flat water. The 4" will hold a single in long period Cali type swell even.

aloha,
pog


#13 Fri, 04/22/2011 - 7:39am


---Trying to keep the thread on topic---

OK. So I can get the rudder from Jude, but what should I look for in a rudder that suits my needs. I see that he has many styles.

@pog - Jude has two styles in 4", weedless and surfing. Which would you recommend? Also, your rudders look very nice. What is the performance difference between your overstern rudders and an understern rudder?


#14 Fri, 04/22/2011 - 8:54am


Totally depends. If you plan on exclusively paddling on lake-type conditions, I'd recommend the weedless rudder. If you plan on doing some ocean riding then I would personally opt for the surfing rudder.


#15 Fri, 04/22/2011 - 8:54am


No one can give you better advice than the man who designs, builds and uses them ... Ask Jude.

aloha,
pog


#16 Fri, 04/22/2011 - 11:08am


sambo rudders in CA makes a good flatwater/kelp rudder just call Riley Ritchie 949.500.4790 or sam 949.246.2538. we mail.


#17 Sun, 04/24/2011 - 5:53pm


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