I spoke with Jean Marc with Viper Va'a, this year is the Biggest Hawaiiki Nui due to it's 20th Aniversary. We should be there, But Big commitment plus needed at least $20 G or more to get a CREW there. Unless Big Sponsorship from Corporation, and a strong Crew that will pactice now together til the race, not going to happened!
Isn't that what its taken team hawaii to do the race every year that they've done it? $20k and a ton of commitment? But I don't think they've ever had a crazy big sponsor.
No! no sponsorship in the past. For a regular paddler (unless you're rich) who work 8 hr days 5 days a week or have your own business, it take a lot; Family, work, money, time to make practice together, a coach and logestics over there, ect. That's why no one is stepping up, it's in the back of our head. It should be nice, but until somebody, someone stepped up to generate funds or donate or PAYs your way or get paid from being away from work or loss time away.
That's why we need big CORPORATION or Someone to start Fund raising island to island up to the mainland to support a TEAM and represent us down in Tahiti; on this Sport that we are fashionate about. Unless something change or got Organized, we're not going to get there or beat the Tahitian here in our water. In this ECONOMY?
Lets start a Donation or sell ticket or approach some BIG fish, or OCpaddler should start a donation account... Keizo probably can set it up here... what do you think guys? $5, $10, $20 or whateva!!!
Thinking out loud:
What if Molokai Hoe was setup so that the first Hawaii team received $20k to go to Tahiti? A $20 "donation" or registration fee allotment per paddler could be collected by OHCRA.
Another thought, what if Hawaii Va'a Association or other non-profit started a program where clubs and events (Hoe, Pailolo, Queen Liliuo) contributed a portion of each entry? It could start off as optional, so there's no issues. The association collecting would then award the funds to the first Hawaii team across the channel?
with all the $ some of the Hawaiian clubs are sitting on
it's crazy they haven't gotten together on a system for a TEAM HAWAII
It would only take 20-25 clubs all throwing down a grand to make it happen
then you can have a system that gives the paddlers from these clubs a path to compete for the State's top 9 seats. Before long TEAM HAWAII would generate its own sponsors lessening the financial burden on the contributing clubs.
you don't have to walk around Honolulu too long before it becomes crystal clear the clubs themselves could come up with $$ -- IMO it's a really a lack of organizational leadership that prevents it from happening....
Never mind sending an all star team or any other hand picked crew that lends itself to a certain group of people. We already know almost exactly where that crew will finish. Build something from the ground up. The ideas above are good. But they are all ideas to accomplish something that already happens. Every year Team Hawaii goes to Hawaiki Nui with a very similar crew and achieves similar (and very respectable) results. To truly adapt, Hawaii's young paddlers need to hop on a path which leads to a change in training and mindset. The elite paddlers Hawaii has have all done these races before. Them going to a big race doesn't foster any change. The elites going to a race, coming back, and SHARING what they know and learn with EVERYONE will stimulate change. It seems true development of talent and sustainable programs can really only happen with a strong club. Perhaps there are people out there who think I'm being contradictory. But I've always thought HCKT, clubs, or HVA's idea of a development program (borrowed from lanikai or HCKT if you will) all have merit when done correctly. Successful examples are out there. The break down occurs for a couple reasons. Talent is developed and then leaves while not returning any knowledge to the whole that created it or there is a refusal to adapt to change. Without adaptation extinction occurs. Just ask the dinosaurs. Whoops, you can't!
I heard this quote recently and it really hit home for me.
"The definition of insanity is conducting the same experiment over and over while expecting a different outcome."
Some strong words there JC9. You know a wise man once said "Science. If you aint pissing people off, you aint doin it right".
When looking at the problem in its entirety it can seem overwhelming. I believe that we need to break it down into two areas that need focus; 1) grass roots and 2) direct action.
The grass roots would be the development programs like those you speak of. Our children, our future, bottom line. Not just in perpetuating the sport, but improving athletic performance. For example, in Olympic coaching the emphasis is on "genetic windows", which open at puberty and again at late teens. This genetic window training is happening organically in Tahiti, via the popularity of the sport.
The other area, or what I called "direct action", would be asking ourselves what can be done now? How can we make simple changes that begin to change the course. Having a democratic or organic method to a financed Team Hawaii would be one.
The kupuna and those who have lead the way have done an awesome job, now its our turn to put our egos aside, remove head from okole and take some action. Or we can keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result.
FYI, Team Hawaii and also Team Bradley on the wahine side have been sponsored by IHCA (International Hawaiian Canoe Association begun by Toots Minnvielle for the purpose of supporting Hawaiian crews competing in international events. This year the money was available again, but there were work conflicts and other miscellaneous problems among the selected crew members which led to a decision not to send Team Hawaii in 2011. Coach Walter Guild also was not going to be able to go as well. In general the program has been ongoing to involve younger paddlers which will be critical if we are looking to send a very competitive crew to Hawaiki Nui in the future. Last year's strong day three finish was indicative that we are close to the top Tahitian crews including Shell, OPT and EDT. As you might recall an illness mishap on day two set back the crew in terms of overall finish.
Logistically we have the routine down well and a very good canoe to use. Besides the advantage of the semi-professional status of the top Tahitian crews and their familiarity with the race course and conditions, the problem for us is basically that their program for younger paddlers is so much stronger than ours. Shell, OPT, and EDT all have younger paddlers who are the same ones that have been dominant in the World Sprints every two years. In contrast our best young paddlers have school, club and work conflicts so we just don't have the depth and degree of interest as they do in a country where paddling rules. Nevertheless, we are working hard on ways to maintain our program, stimulate more interest in training with Team Hawaii, and looking for new sponsorship help. BTW on December 4th as a Shaka Shakedown Special on K5, there will be the first of four showings of a film on the 2010 Hawaiki Nui race put together by Johann Bouit (Hironui Productions). At the latest meeting of the IHCA Board of Directors, it was agreed that Team Hawaii will compete again in 2012. Also of interest as a result of sponsoring Tahitian athletes in the recent South Pacific Games, the usual amount of sponsorship prize money will not be available for this year's anniversary edition of the Hawaiki Nui Va'a race and the number of crews competing might be down some. For the top crews money is not really an issue and two time defending champion OPT will have to hold off challenges from an up and coming EDT crew as well as perennial heavyweight Shell Va'a.
pekelo, you hit the nail on the head. it starts with the kids. that's where it has to.
joe, think the words I mentioned were Einstein's. he might have known a thing or two.
no offense meant to team hawai'i. they go to far away races and do very well. my point is that people should think about sponsoring programs like HCKT's and others that are rooted in young athlete development. take a look at lanikai, how many top paddlers in Hawaii have come from that program? it obviously works.
I spoke with Jean Marc with Viper Va'a, this year is the Biggest Hawaiiki Nui due to it's 20th Aniversary. We should be there, But Big commitment plus needed at least $20 G or more to get a CREW there. Unless Big Sponsorship from Corporation, and a strong Crew that will pactice now together til the race, not going to happened!
#1 Thu, 10/20/2011 - 7:23am
Isn't that what its taken team hawaii to do the race every year that they've done it? $20k and a ton of commitment? But I don't think they've ever had a crazy big sponsor.
#2 Thu, 10/20/2011 - 6:35am
No! no sponsorship in the past. For a regular paddler (unless you're rich) who work 8 hr days 5 days a week or have your own business, it take a lot; Family, work, money, time to make practice together, a coach and logestics over there, ect. That's why no one is stepping up, it's in the back of our head. It should be nice, but until somebody, someone stepped up to generate funds or donate or PAYs your way or get paid from being away from work or loss time away.
That's why we need big CORPORATION or Someone to start Fund raising island to island up to the mainland to support a TEAM and represent us down in Tahiti; on this Sport that we are fashionate about. Unless something change or got Organized, we're not going to get there or beat the Tahitian here in our water. In this ECONOMY?
Lets start a Donation or sell ticket or approach some BIG fish, or OCpaddler should start a donation account... Keizo probably can set it up here... what do you think guys? $5, $10, $20 or whateva!!!
#3 Thu, 10/20/2011 - 7:53am
Kaipu makes a good point.
Thinking out loud:
What if Molokai Hoe was setup so that the first Hawaii team received $20k to go to Tahiti? A $20 "donation" or registration fee allotment per paddler could be collected by OHCRA.
Another thought, what if Hawaii Va'a Association or other non-profit started a program where clubs and events (Hoe, Pailolo, Queen Liliuo) contributed a portion of each entry? It could start off as optional, so there's no issues. The association collecting would then award the funds to the first Hawaii team across the channel?
Lets keep this conversation going... good stuff
#4 Thu, 10/20/2011 - 8:13am
Sending the winning Hawaii team from the Molokai Hoe might be tough, since the logistics to race in Tahiti start much earlier.
Also adding $20 per paddler-$180 per team to the cost of Molokai is an additional burden.
However I do like the ideas and creative thinking.
#5 Thu, 10/20/2011 - 8:35am
with all the $ some of the Hawaiian clubs are sitting on
it's crazy they haven't gotten together on a system for a TEAM HAWAII
It would only take 20-25 clubs all throwing down a grand to make it happen
then you can have a system that gives the paddlers from these clubs a path to compete for the State's top 9 seats. Before long TEAM HAWAII would generate its own sponsors lessening the financial burden on the contributing clubs.
you don't have to walk around Honolulu too long before it becomes crystal clear the clubs themselves could come up with $$ -- IMO it's a really a lack of organizational leadership that prevents it from happening....
#6 Thu, 10/20/2011 - 2:09pm
Maybe think even farther outside the box.
Never mind sending an all star team or any other hand picked crew that lends itself to a certain group of people. We already know almost exactly where that crew will finish. Build something from the ground up. The ideas above are good. But they are all ideas to accomplish something that already happens. Every year Team Hawaii goes to Hawaiki Nui with a very similar crew and achieves similar (and very respectable) results. To truly adapt, Hawaii's young paddlers need to hop on a path which leads to a change in training and mindset. The elite paddlers Hawaii has have all done these races before. Them going to a big race doesn't foster any change. The elites going to a race, coming back, and SHARING what they know and learn with EVERYONE will stimulate change. It seems true development of talent and sustainable programs can really only happen with a strong club. Perhaps there are people out there who think I'm being contradictory. But I've always thought HCKT, clubs, or HVA's idea of a development program (borrowed from lanikai or HCKT if you will) all have merit when done correctly. Successful examples are out there. The break down occurs for a couple reasons. Talent is developed and then leaves while not returning any knowledge to the whole that created it or there is a refusal to adapt to change. Without adaptation extinction occurs. Just ask the dinosaurs. Whoops, you can't!
I heard this quote recently and it really hit home for me.
"The definition of insanity is conducting the same experiment over and over while expecting a different outcome."
#7 Thu, 10/20/2011 - 5:01pm
Some strong words there JC9. You know a wise man once said "Science. If you aint pissing people off, you aint doin it right".
When looking at the problem in its entirety it can seem overwhelming. I believe that we need to break it down into two areas that need focus; 1) grass roots and 2) direct action.
The grass roots would be the development programs like those you speak of. Our children, our future, bottom line. Not just in perpetuating the sport, but improving athletic performance. For example, in Olympic coaching the emphasis is on "genetic windows", which open at puberty and again at late teens. This genetic window training is happening organically in Tahiti, via the popularity of the sport.
The other area, or what I called "direct action", would be asking ourselves what can be done now? How can we make simple changes that begin to change the course. Having a democratic or organic method to a financed Team Hawaii would be one.
The kupuna and those who have lead the way have done an awesome job, now its our turn to put our egos aside, remove head from okole and take some action. Or we can keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result.
#8 Mon, 10/24/2011 - 11:42am
FYI, Team Hawaii and also Team Bradley on the wahine side have been sponsored by IHCA (International Hawaiian Canoe Association begun by Toots Minnvielle for the purpose of supporting Hawaiian crews competing in international events. This year the money was available again, but there were work conflicts and other miscellaneous problems among the selected crew members which led to a decision not to send Team Hawaii in 2011. Coach Walter Guild also was not going to be able to go as well. In general the program has been ongoing to involve younger paddlers which will be critical if we are looking to send a very competitive crew to Hawaiki Nui in the future. Last year's strong day three finish was indicative that we are close to the top Tahitian crews including Shell, OPT and EDT. As you might recall an illness mishap on day two set back the crew in terms of overall finish.
Logistically we have the routine down well and a very good canoe to use. Besides the advantage of the semi-professional status of the top Tahitian crews and their familiarity with the race course and conditions, the problem for us is basically that their program for younger paddlers is so much stronger than ours. Shell, OPT, and EDT all have younger paddlers who are the same ones that have been dominant in the World Sprints every two years. In contrast our best young paddlers have school, club and work conflicts so we just don't have the depth and degree of interest as they do in a country where paddling rules. Nevertheless, we are working hard on ways to maintain our program, stimulate more interest in training with Team Hawaii, and looking for new sponsorship help. BTW on December 4th as a Shaka Shakedown Special on K5, there will be the first of four showings of a film on the 2010 Hawaiki Nui race put together by Johann Bouit (Hironui Productions). At the latest meeting of the IHCA Board of Directors, it was agreed that Team Hawaii will compete again in 2012. Also of interest as a result of sponsoring Tahitian athletes in the recent South Pacific Games, the usual amount of sponsorship prize money will not be available for this year's anniversary edition of the Hawaiki Nui Va'a race and the number of crews competing might be down some. For the top crews money is not really an issue and two time defending champion OPT will have to hold off challenges from an up and coming EDT crew as well as perennial heavyweight Shell Va'a.
#9 Mon, 10/24/2011 - 1:31pm
Envisioning "TEAMS Hawaii", maybe three or four crews entering wherever there is racing, Tahiti and beyond.
#10 Mon, 10/24/2011 - 5:29pm
pekelo, you hit the nail on the head. it starts with the kids. that's where it has to.
joe, think the words I mentioned were Einstein's. he might have known a thing or two.
no offense meant to team hawai'i. they go to far away races and do very well. my point is that people should think about sponsoring programs like HCKT's and others that are rooted in young athlete development. take a look at lanikai, how many top paddlers in Hawaii have come from that program? it obviously works.
#11 Mon, 10/24/2011 - 9:24pm
exactly, it's not the paycheck that makes Tahiti better --- it's the program
we've got the resources too, just aren't using them as wisely
#12 Tue, 10/25/2011 - 11:37am