I was wondering if anyone knew some of the basic deminsions of those beautiful composite canoes that were built last year to race in the unlimited OC6 events. What is the OAL, beam, rocker, etc.? Reason I'm asking is I'd like to compare those hull design basics to what those in Texas call an unlimited 6-man hull, which is used in river racing and can be paddled with both a wing blade and single blade.
Any info would be much appreciated.
Submitted by Osprey on Mon, 02/28/2011 - 4:53pm
Here's an example of one of the Texas six-man canoes.
#1 Mon, 02/28/2011 - 4:59pm
Here's another six-man design that I'd love to learn more about. Any insights from anyone?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/librarianguish/495751380/in/set-72157600209...
#2 Mon, 02/28/2011 - 5:10pm
To be brutally honest with you, I really don't think that too many people are going to divulge information regarding the specifications of their boats. It seems to me that everybody is working at gaining the competitive edge in the open divisions, and companies probably aren't wanting their competition getting some information that may help them gain an advantage.
I could be wrong here, but if I was a builder, I definitely would be hesitant to hand out info that's taken years to develop and perfect.
#3 Mon, 02/28/2011 - 6:15pm
Osprey,
I answered your question on the flikr account. But Mulus might be able to give you a lot more insight on Coast Salish Racing canoes. He races them up in North Vancouver. But lines on these dugouts are all a little different. Very very fast canoes (and tippy). You can do a search on youtube on Coast Salish Racing canoes and you can see some racing. pretty cool.
#4 Mon, 02/28/2011 - 7:03pm
I can't speak for any builders. But I do know of at least one that gladly loans out their canoe to anyone who wants to try it. I'm sure anyone could take measurements while they're borrowing it.
#5 Mon, 02/28/2011 - 9:09pm
ya, any info you need about my six man . I will be glad to share. like 41 feet by 28 inch at its widest and 12 inch high in the middle. the seats are only a few inches off the floor. we have foot rest. and back rests. no ama
#6 Mon, 02/28/2011 - 10:05pm
Keep in mind that Mulus paddles in a War Canoe that's capable of taking down the USS Ronald Regan
#7 Tue, 03/01/2011 - 4:55am
lol
#8 Tue, 03/01/2011 - 5:57am
Thanks for all the great information. I'm continuing my research on the Coast Salish racing canoes. They are very intriguing, especially the 11-man boats.
@ Kileki - I fully understand about the confidentiality of designs and am cool if info is kept close to the vest. Just trying to do some comparisons of boats that employ 6 paddlers.
Thanks all, I really appreciate the help.
#9 Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:42pm
Eh Osprey,
What are YOU working on ? : )
Always fun to hear about and check out new stuff.
aloha,
pog
#10 Tue, 03/01/2011 - 12:58pm
The dimensions for Kapa'a, (Kamanu Composite's blue unlimited design) are no secret:
41' 9" overall length
38' 4" waterline length
22" widest point (above waterline)
19.5" widest point at waterline
...and 188 lbs.
It doesn't move because of the numbers though... gotta remember the hands that built it, and the hands that paddle it.
#11 Tue, 03/01/2011 - 1:05pm
@goto - thanks very much for your post. Do you know how much rocker is in the Kapa'a? Great info.
@mulus & Kiezio - got your messages. THANKS MUCH!!!
@pog - I'm exploring what might be the optimum human-powered craft (assuming good paddlers) for the Missouri River 340 race. A variety of boats have won the race (Texas 6-man carbon/kevlar, OC1, OC2, Texas 2-man carbon/kevlar, dragonboat came in 3rd last year). I've often thought that an OC6 would do well, but the traditional boats are just too heavy for this race and seems that the composite OC6s would be an excellent choice even at 188lbs. As I began to research, I came across the Coast Salish racing canoes suggested above. Building one of those in strip or carbon/kevlar seems like an idea worth exploring, but 6-man or 11-man is the next question. Or, is there a design out there for a mult-paddler boat that is light, fast and can be sat in for 50 straight hours. No one thought we could paddle a dragon boat for 340 miles, but we set a world distance record in one last year (Guinness verified). So, I think the options are wide open. The river is wide and dredged for commercial navigation, no obstructions and has long sweeping turns. The river moves at approximately 3 mph. The craft must be able to be kept upright even with the paddlers at extreme fatigue states, which is why an OC seems to be a good option so far. Not sure just how stable the Coast Salish racing canoes are (like a sea kayak?, surfski? K4?).
I'm going to bring together a few paddling friends here in the Midwest to build and race this future craft in the Missouri River 340. I have boat builders at my disposal that would love the challenge, but we're searching for the right design.
I know this may seem very naive of me to some, but designing a boat specific to this race is something we are taking seriously and will spend the next two years doing, regarless of what that design choice ends up being.
I'd love to hear of any ideas from this very creative group.
#12 Wed, 03/02/2011 - 12:59pm
Cool Osprey,
Sounds like fun. Right here is one design, http://www.huki.com/ Its gotta have the ONNO rudder like Santo's too : ) : ) : )
aloha,
pog
#13 Wed, 03/02/2011 - 2:37pm
@pog - yup, know Santo well. He worked really hard the last two years to be successful and the ski and OC1 are two great platforms for this long race. In fact, I'm racing this year on one of Jude's V2-X beauties. Jude is selling it as a used boat and it is available right after we finish the MR340 in July (after I wash it all up nice). It's the second from the top on this page: http://www.huki.com/index.php?page=Outrigger_Bargains
Yet, what I'm looking for is a mult-man platform to win the overall race. The lesson of the Texas 6-man boats and the dragonboat last year is that 6 or more good paddlers are the secret. I'm not really interested in doing the dragonboat thing again because organizing a team of 20 paddlers and a ground crew of 5 is not only expensive but a serious headache. If I could put 6, 8 or 10 good canoe paddlers into a craft designed specificly for this race, it would be a blast to see what would happen. I'm leaning to a modified version of the Coast Salish designs at this point, but wondering if I need an internal stiffening keel on a cedar strip boat of 50 feet in length.
Thanks all for your interest and information.
#14 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 4:57am
The problem with a 50 foot coast sailish style is your 3s inch from the floor and the balance is like a surf ski. But I don’t think you would need a keel. the main plus is having 11 guys there’s more to lean on and more speed. my only concern would be being in the water for an extended amount of time your legs and back would be more likely to cramp. I would sway to and unlimited class outrigger style for comfort in the long run would be faster in the end.
#15 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 7:01am
Try an OC12 (two oc6 side by side with flat iakos)
Some of the crew can sleep while the others paddle, no need for anyone to get out of the canoe.
It's traditional in Outrigger not to stand in the canoe, but you can pee over the side if you lean over the gunnel while seated.
#16 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 10:38am
@Rambo - Rest assured, Ian, with a race of this length and the pace the top boats are maintaining, we have long mastered the varied arts of relieving oneself while in motion. Without describing here, I employ three techniques for urination. Oh, hey, that's not Gatorade in that bottle!! Hahaha. I've seen these twin-hulled outriggers used for Paddleability and for corporate events, but I didn't think they could hold the speed that an OC6 could maintain. BTW, when are we gonna get you to get up here and race this insane race with a GoPro mounted on your deck?
#17 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 11:35am
Actually the twin hulls are faster than a single OC6. About 1-2 seconds over 500meters if you go by the World Sprints times.
Dan, we keep sending Tony Bond over there every year 'ços he's the only crazy one that will go. But when i finally go insane i promise i will do the event.
R
#18 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 12:32pm
No they don't... they are much faster !
#19 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 12:29pm
Goto,
Is the 38' 4" the loaded water line?
Same with the waterline width?
#20 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 2:53pm
Yes. The canoe was designed for the six paddlers who raced Kapa'a in 'Eono. We each had to decide where we were going to sit before we could even start building so the waterline would come out right where Keizo wanted it. That guy knows what he's doing when it comes to canoes n' stuff.
#21 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 3:41pm
thank goodness keizo is light. if he were heavier i would have had to stroke.
#22 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 4:40pm
Tried to post a recent pic of Kawainui, but can't figure out the code.
#23 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 5:53pm
pisces, send it to me and i will post it for you.
ramboscie@gmail.com
#24 Thu, 03/03/2011 - 6:35pm
Rambo - thanks for the code - here they are!
#25 Tue, 03/15/2011 - 12:04pm
Ian & Hiro --
Thanks for setting me straight on the cat-style boats. I assume having 12 paddlers in hulls without the drag of an ama is the reason they are faster ... is that right? I learn something new each day about racing and OCPaddler has been a great resource for me.
Mahalo
#26 Tue, 03/15/2011 - 10:57am
In Tahiti there are hulls that can carry 8 paddlers. When lashed together you got a V16...
On the following links you will see pics of what I'm talking about.
http://www.paddle-planet.com/en/photos/223/viewcategory/2#category
Also, I'm sure that you could add a platform between the iakos to have a place to rest/cook while the rest of the team doesn't stop paddling.
#27 Tue, 03/15/2011 - 3:37pm
Caught on tape during the 60s. Races with the "Bounty" in the background. (from the movie with Marlon Brando).
http://www.ica.pf/articles.php?id=195
#28 Tue, 03/15/2011 - 3:51pm
1952
http://www.ica.pf/articles.php?id=303
#29 Tue, 03/15/2011 - 3:54pm
Has anyone used the double hulled canoes in big seas...maybe 5-6 ft swells? in a downwind or upwind seas or with swells coming broadside? If so how did the canoes operate? I could see that they can move very quickly and theoretically would be more stable...than a outrigger w/ama ,but would like to know what limits, strengths or weaknesses the double hulled canoes have.
I know that Te Aurere and Hokule'a are double hulled sailing canoes...but their hulls are enclosed and have a definite difference in shape so I'm guessing their performance is very different. Anyone have any thoughts?
#30 Tue, 03/15/2011 - 5:04pm
Hey that's cool Hiro. Looks like they were racing the V Doubles.
#31 Tue, 03/15/2011 - 6:37pm
I wouldn't try... you have to get the two hulls travelling at the same speed all the time. Otherwise it puts tu much stress on the iakos and the lashings.
#32 Tue, 03/15/2011 - 7:35pm
Man that Kamanu Kawainui is sooo sick!!! Well done gentlemen!
#33 Wed, 03/16/2011 - 7:33am