Is the Storm an updated Hurricane?

In an earlier post Mauitim said that Mike Giblin is not working on an updated Hurricane, but on a surf canoe prototype. Is that canoe the Storm? Just wondering if the Storm is intended for surf or flatwater.

Submitted by zebignu on Tue, 02/08/2011 - 7:41am



Has anyone heard any updates or seen anything regarding Mr. Giblin's new oc1, aka. "Frankenstein", aka. "Storm"?


#1 Fri, 06/03/2011 - 3:14pm


saw a pic of it when i went into p3 in kona. looked pretty interesting... heard its gonna be a one peice canoe with no seams.


#2 Fri, 06/03/2011 - 7:21pm


For anyones info .. From a technical standpoint > Unless it's a rotomolded/blowmolded ( plastic ) , one off or positive pressure, in-mold. There is no such thing as a "one piece " canoe, surfski, kayak etc.. Seamless does not equate to "one piece".

aloha,
pog


#3 Fri, 06/03/2011 - 9:14pm


Chad meek in Australia made "seamless" racing K1s in one piece a few years ago, it was resin infused soric core with a nylon bag inside and outside to hold the vacuum pressure , he was able to add the "innards" through the cockpit hole after the resin had cured and the bags were removed . I dont know how any insides could be put into OC1s , maybe V1s are possible but its not really worth it IMO. ps he had (needed) a gelstripe over the join in the moulds.

The other method would be as per Hypr boats and prime/ paint the seam away which is possible in China where Labour is cheap and painting is worthwhile.


#4 Mon, 06/06/2011 - 12:51am


Building a one-piece/seamless canoe is very possible. At the company I work at, we build parts that are a prepreg layup, you then insert a shaped inflatable bladder, close the prepreg over the bladder and then close the layup mold lid.
This process builds a very strong and seamless part, and I see no reason why a canoe can't also be built this way.


#5 Wed, 06/08/2011 - 4:20am


Yep, plenty parts made like this already.

What you making Kileki ? : )

Never gonna happen with canoes or kayaks though.

aloha,
pog


#6 Wed, 06/08/2011 - 8:18am


I work for General Atomics, and we build the Predator drone aircraft.


#7 Wed, 06/08/2011 - 11:43am


Any updates on the new storm?


#8 Wed, 06/15/2011 - 3:04pm


cool, a updated website w/ some pics

http://www.outriggerzone.com/


#9 Sun, 09/04/2011 - 8:50pm


Been watching the website ... Nothing opens for me on it. ... Hoolehuaboy, can you see other stuff besides the Dealer Page ?

mahalo,
pog


#10 Mon, 09/05/2011 - 8:37am


Click on the blog, down the page in blue.
There are only 2 photos and a sketch.
Looks like a Scorpious cross Hurricane, cant wait for this one.
Would love some more photos and info please.


#11 Mon, 09/05/2011 - 3:19pm


After 15 years they update their website but it's still useless! you go to the blog page, it appears for 3 seconds then disappears!!?? Think I'll wait til somone posts a pic on OCPaddler.


#12 Tue, 09/06/2011 - 12:57pm


I can see the website fine. Maybe its the computers you guys are using? works on my Mac just fine.

theres not too much detailed pics on the site, but a few pics from a GoPro. I also read something about the canoes coming out at the end of september. Yeah, not much to go on from the pics posted.....


#13 Tue, 09/06/2011 - 1:15pm


Here it is,


#14 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 1:41am


I see "Huki" on the door to the shop... Was it built in Jude's shop???

BTW, it's a sick looking kanu!!!


#15 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 7:35am


Thanks Auspaddler,

Do you have a shot of the rocker ?

aloha,
pog


#16 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 8:16am


This canoe looks to fast to be safe. Does anyone know if you'll need a permit to be on this canoe?


#17 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 2:54pm


OnoPaddle said "Never gonna happen with canoes or kayaks though"

Pog, looks to me it just did, the Storm is one piece out of the mold according to the website.


#18 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 3:58pm


Taken from the site.

I wanted a canoe that worked well for larger paddlers. Finally, I wanted it to be comfortable.

The final design on the Storm incorporates the deck from the third prototype and the modified and redesigned hull of the second. We also have two new ama designs, one for flat water and one for rough water. The Storm will come with interchangeable carbon fiber iakos, much like the ones on the Hurricane, but with more clearance underneath them. It will feature a new composite rudder system which is extremely lightweight, and very responsive. The foot brace and foot pedals feel like your favorite slippers, and the adjustable seat is just right.

The most exciting new feature of the canoe is its construction. The Storm will be the first outrigger canoe to be molded in one piece. Traditionally canoes are molded in halves then joined with epoxy putty. Joining the canoe is a blind process which relies on excess putty to assure a good bond. Molding the canoe in one piece will eliminate excess weight and result in a stronger canoe. For the past few years we've been using prepregs without really exploiting their advantages. The new construction makes use of these advantages.


#19 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 3:38pm


We have some pics of the canoe on our site. www.crazypaddlers.net


#20 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 5:11pm


Ha hah Rambo,

Been thinking about it for years and agree as Keliki said bigger stuff is possible.

Does any one know what that belt line is for then ? Is it a seam reinforcent or a cosmetic stripe ?

Will be killer if its made the way I think it is but I will refrain from comment 'till I look inside one. ...... And can't wait to do so : )

Awesome job OZONE !

aloha,
pog


#21 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 5:19pm


It appears to be a cosmetic stripe in the first picture where the Storm Logo runs from deck to hull.


#22 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 6:28pm


Hey onno , hope these help.
One things for sure, its look fast.


#23 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 6:32pm


The ama from the first one has no seam. maybe they make it the same way. like the caramilk bar.


#24 Mon, 01/30/2012 - 6:45pm


I've been wondering when somebody was going to make the leap into using prepreg carbon fiber. Not only does it virtually eliminate the inconsistencies that come along with the wet-layup, but it is also getting cured in an oven (or autoclave...depending on the exact type of construction) which will allow for better cure and faster production.

I'm looking forward to some reviews!!


#25 Tue, 01/31/2012 - 3:28am


Giblin has been using prepreg for several years on the Hurricane, Peg, Scorpoius's and the canoes have been very strong. It will be interesting to see how the one piece mold, if that is what it is, comes out. weight and strength wise. Could be the next step in construction but I am wondering how he cables it along with the drainhole setup.


#26 Tue, 01/31/2012 - 10:20am


I never liked the Iako to ama connection on the Hurricane. Looks like this has the same setup (looks like Iako to canoe is different though). Did they improve on the Iako to amo or is it the same?


#27 Tue, 01/31/2012 - 12:53pm


So does the Storm come with two amas, both a flat water and rough water version?

What is the new composite rudder system? Can't tell from the pictures, what did they do for the rudder T bar? Looks like it might be enclosed or covered by a hatch.


#28 Wed, 02/01/2012 - 12:30pm


correct me if i'm wrong, but my understanding is that all ruddered canoes in Aus have to have the rudder cables and t-bar covered as a safety requirement. the shape of the rudder looks familiar. maybe similar to the hurricane?


#29 Wed, 02/01/2012 - 2:46pm


@jc9, that used to be the case but with the Peuo being sold without, it appears that this rule has been 'forgotten' (as it should). My Chinese XM unfortunately has the t-bar completely concealed which could lead to all sorts of problems down the track if I ever have to change the spectra cables.


#30 Wed, 02/01/2012 - 2:54pm


The rule in Aus still exists with the steering "T" being covered although maybe the imported canoes from Hawaii were able to slip by. The spectra cables in the China XM's are actually not too difficult to replace with stainless steel cables(CLay in HNL , KAis shop on Maui) - HAsto where do you live?


#31 Wed, 02/01/2012 - 6:00pm


With the way the rudder tiller bar and cable area being so recessed below on the Pueo probably excludes it to not require a cover.

Checking out a friends China XM and how he said Kea put the rudder on when he got it sounded pretty simple enough.


#32 Wed, 02/01/2012 - 6:36pm


@paddlefast, I live in Sydney, Australia.


#33 Wed, 02/01/2012 - 6:46pm


The amended rule for Australia is the tiller bar only has to be below the top level of the deck, not necessary to be covered. Same goes for any other bolt or potentially dangerous protrusion.


#34 Wed, 02/01/2012 - 10:33pm


HAsto- Millthom can probably help if you ever need to recable. He is very good with that kind of stuff.


#35 Thu, 02/02/2012 - 10:50am


Anyone in Hawaii and in the OCPaddler community seen or paddled it yet? 35 posts in this thread and no mention of anyone seeing a Storm in person or paddling it.


#36 Fri, 02/03/2012 - 7:09am


Kona guys ... Does P3 have them in yet ? Sue said she was gonna have 'em.

aloha,
pog


#37 Fri, 02/03/2012 - 11:00am


Coming soon.... Heard a container lands in hawaii in two weeks.


#38 Fri, 02/03/2012 - 8:48pm


k

yea heard container on way to NZ too. hearsay tho, not confirmed


#39 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 10:13pm


This is correct, The Storm is coming to NZ


#40 Thu, 02/23/2012 - 11:31am


Onopaddle, yep P3 just got their load of new boats in. Including one Storm, it's sick soooo light. There is nothing out on the market now lighter than this boat! 15lbs!!!!

Also a bunch of new scorpius XS's in stock, and hurricanes


#41 Sun, 03/11/2012 - 9:18am


Got any pictures?


#42 Mon, 03/12/2012 - 2:48am


How do the prices compare there is a xs scorpius in aus for $6500???? What's the price in usa?.....


#43 Thu, 03/22/2012 - 12:50am


Check out this site Boss . http://www.crazypaddlers.net/


#44 Thu, 03/22/2012 - 2:04am


2 pics of Storm that arrived in Kona


#45 Thu, 03/22/2012 - 10:42am


Must log in to see


#46 Thu, 03/22/2012 - 12:42pm


Thanks Kona J O.K. with Sue to huli and take a shot of the bottom ?

If its got chines I will eat a button off the computer : 0

aloha,
pog


#47 Thu, 03/22/2012 - 2:12pm


hmm..... logo much


#48 Thu, 03/22/2012 - 5:40pm


hmmmm. The shot of the cockpit tells the tale of how this boat is molded with "no seam". looks like the cockpit is installed after the hull is molded? i'm sure there are build savvy guys on here that would know how this works. my primitive mind couldn't figure it out till I saw these pics. or that could just be padding I'm seeing...


#49 Thu, 03/22/2012 - 9:34pm


Pog,

There are 9 chines on bottom of the canoe.

Please post video of you eating 9 buttons for each chine.

Hah.

No Chines.


#50 Fri, 03/23/2012 - 10:51am


correct me if I am wrong, wouldn't a boat be stronger if it is built in two pieces as they are in Hawaii?


#51 Fri, 03/23/2012 - 2:28pm


A few years back a guy from Kona was selling canoes that were called "seemless". Come to find out they were not, they were just ground down and painted over. Not sure if thats the case here but maybe?


#52 Fri, 03/23/2012 - 3:54pm


it may have been said on this forum. thought i read that the unbroken weave of a seamless boat is stronger. also a boat without a seam will be lighter because it doesn't have a bunch of putty holding it together at the seam.


#53 Fri, 03/23/2012 - 6:53pm


jpi92109,

That's not the case here with the Storm, where the mold comes apart does not mean there is a seam there. Think of something like a plastic handle on a pan, it has a small line where the mold comes apart but it is not a seam (2 pieces glued together). The cover on your printer (plastic injection molded), surfboard fin box, plastic surf fins are examples of not being seams but parting lines. Where the mold separates the part has to be finished and painted. Its not a fake out, it really is seamless.

For sure jc9 0 is right, putty is not as light and strong as a seamless construction for many reasons which include putty to glue the half's together.

WEH


#54 Fri, 03/23/2012 - 7:36pm


but wouldnt the boat have more structural integrity if it has two parts joined at the seam? isnt that the reason why modern paddles are constructed from different pieces of wood? I realize wood may be different than carbon fibre and epoxy, but it seems like the analogy would apply. anybody? very rarely do boats break at the seam nowadays...


#55 Fri, 03/23/2012 - 8:34pm


The way I see it is its better to have the hull twisting and flexing , if only slightly, as one unit rather than having a weak or strong point running the entire length of the canoe.
I would love to know how they do it.


#56 Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:13pm


Before I give my thoughts, I just want to say I dropped in the store and don;t rep or work for P3.

The new color designs and build of the Scorpius XS and XM from Outrigger Zone are great. Anyone who sees them will be impressed.

Thoughts on the Storm. I don't know about strength but the canoe is very light and is a little spooky to get used to, especially picking up the ama. 2 pounds.

I looked at the photos online like everyone else but in person my thoughts were.

-IT is a big boy/girl canoe

-Lots of volume

-Footwells are huge

-Just on looks It looks like a big water downwind canoe. But it might be very fast in the flats and will have to be tested.

-What are the effects of a canoe that is 6 to 7 pounds less? We will see.

I have a double carbon (24.5 pound hull) Pahoa built by Tiger that rolled off of a hill at a park-due to wind and fell 10 feet onto rocks. I thought is would have large cracks. NO! Two chips in the paint. Super Strong.

There is a consideration about weight vs strength. If the same thing happened as above (dropped 10 feet) to a 19 pound hull Outrigger Zone Peg, XM, XS, or 14 pound hull Storm - I would bet money it would have a crack. Even a Kai and Kaimanu ultra light 19 pound hull canoe might crack too.


#57 Sat, 03/24/2012 - 5:10am


Kona J,

I am involved in Ozone but I will just stick to the facts and make sure that any misconceptions are cleared up. Its not my intent on this forum to sell, compare us against them etc... That's for you guys to decide. I can give you our take on why we do what we do.

I cant really say if the boat would break in the example you talked about but I can tell you a couple things as fact:

  1. The Ozone Storm, XS, XM etc... all have the same layup (fiber amount, resin ratio, core etc) as the Hurricane has had for the last 5 years. No difference. I think that time has shown the Hurricane's are pretty tough.
  2. The most significant part of the weight saving in the Storm is coming from:

A) Monocoque construction: by saving weight on putty to join, putty for receivers, putty for cable housings, integrated foot pedal hinges, etc.... Boat was designed from start to finish with weight in mind, many of the systems are integrated into the design.

B) paint system.

  1. What is possible with a hand layed up boat VS. OZONE Storm, XM, XS, Hurricane, Tempest which are 100% carbon prepreg boats that are cooked at 212 F with 3 + atmospheres pressure ( .035MPA) for 8 hours in an autoclave cant be compared in the strength/weight department.

WEH


#58 Sat, 03/24/2012 - 8:23pm


Plus, a prepreg part that goes into an autoclave will always cure better and have better strength and resilience than a wet layup part.


#59 Sat, 03/24/2012 - 9:14pm


very interesting stuff. would love to see a youtube video on how the seamless canoe's are constructed. thanks for the responses.


#60 Sun, 03/25/2012 - 10:44am


Numerouno,

Worn out cliche alert!!!

"If I told you, I would have to kill you"

Seriously though, a lot of hard work and big money went into this, a lot could be learned from a simple video. I can toss you a pic of an Ama coming out of the mold though.

In this picture, don't confuse seam with parting line, after all we have to split the mold somewhere, what you see in the picture is some excess resin from the parting line and a reflection from the outside light.

WEH


#61 Sun, 03/25/2012 - 9:01pm


Jc9 o ,

I saw there was an earlier discussion about the tiller on the STORM.

Here is a picture of the tiller. Its a disc that the cable travels around in a groove. The cable exits a molded cup in the deck and is one piece of line. The tiller disc is flush with the deck.
It's very light overall, easy to access and combined with a titanium rudder shaft (which it is) very resistant to corrosion (actually none).

WEH


#62 Sun, 03/25/2012 - 10:16pm


Hi WEH,

I have not seen one in person yet so just going by pics here on OCP.

Maybe you can 'toss' us a few more answers ...

After all that work ... Why does the tiller disc cover look so ratty ? Are you a paddler ? Your opinion on the use of a disc over the std. tiller bar ? What happens if the pedals do not keep tension on the line to hold it in the grove of the disc or if they get forced back in from a big wave or rudder blade gets pushed opposite creating slack or both ? How would you repair this out on the water if a line broke at the disc itself and all you had to use would not fit in the grove or hole ? Also how would you address the other side now being useless since it too would fall out of the grove ? Is the foam stuck on like the Hurricanes with bunji under tension trying to peel it up 24/7 or is there some hardware involved now ?

The details and follow through are what gives one the right to be smug ...

pog


#63 Mon, 03/26/2012 - 1:42am


Uno's quote
"correct me if I am wrong, wouldn't a boat be stronger if it is built in two pieces as they are in Hawaii?"

No. The seam is actually the weakest part of any composite layup. It is true that the epoxy and puddies that different people/companies use are very strong...But they're simply not as strong as an autoclave cured prepreg seamless part.

The structural integrity is far and away better because the cloth comes pre-wetted with the proper ratio of epoxy/resin mixes and the part is allowed to cure in a pressurized and heated autoclave. Parts are made better, stronger and faster with this process. The downside is that it's incredibly expensive.


#64 Mon, 03/26/2012 - 10:08am


WEH, thanks for posting all this info, not often stuff like this is shared by the manufacturers, so really appreciate you doing so. Thanks.


#65 Mon, 03/26/2012 - 3:45pm


Overall it sounds like there is good quality coming out of china on several different canoes, albeit from the same factory. I doubted the seam was merely hidden like the hyper canoes did. Thanks WEH for all the info. When the china boats were a big deal about 4 years ago the info coming was spotty and sometimes misleading to say the least - on that particular brand everyone knows and loves.


#66 Mon, 03/26/2012 - 4:56pm


Thanks guys...

Website upgrade is coming so a lot of the questions can be answered there, I think Ill bow out now and leave you guys alone.

Take care,

WEH


#67 Mon, 03/26/2012 - 11:45pm


Any concerns with sun/heat and the all black layup as the only colour available?


#68 Tue, 03/27/2012 - 9:52am


I went to P3 in kona on monday. this canoe is super light especially for its size. felt lighter than all the other canoes in the shop.


#69 Tue, 03/27/2012 - 10:08am


I keep looking at this thread and while there's lots of discussion on how it looks and how it might perform, nobody seems to have commented on how it goes? Surely someone has actually paddled it that can provide some feedback. I look forward to reading that post.

Trevor.


#70 Tue, 03/27/2012 - 1:44pm


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