High School State Race

Anyone know the lineups for this years race? A lot of good teams not headed to Hilo I hear.

Favorites?

Submitted by dlee on Thu, 02/02/2012 - 8:03am



Kamehameha Kapalama has to be a favorite. Kalama has an unreal program up there.


#1 Thu, 02/02/2012 - 10:24am


I heard there are only 2 ILH school per division allowed vs 3 in previous years? I dont understand this. Now I may be a little bias as I went to an ILH sanctioned school but results over the years have spoken for themselves that the ILH deserves 1 more boat/school per division.


#2 Thu, 02/02/2012 - 10:29am


Writing's on the wall.

Originally ILH sent four crews to states. All four would make finals. Often times resulting in a 1,2,3 ILH finish.

Later the ILH was allowed to send three crews. Often times resulting in a 1,2,3 ILH finish.

Now, if it's true, the ILH is only allowed to send two crews? What's next?

Pretty sure slots allotted for states are based on the number of athletes participating in that league. So if numbers have fallen off in the ILH this could be a reason. Or participation numbers could have risen in the other leagues making them a bigger draw than the ILH. but it's a tough pill to swallow when you're the third best crew in the toughest league in the state and you don't get an invite to compete.

Again, if this is true.


#3 Thu, 02/02/2012 - 12:57pm


ILH always has a low number schools compared to the other leagues. What's a bummer is some ILH schools would rather only race DIV 2 and not DIV 1. This hurts the ILH because it results in less state berths.

This year there were a few small private and charter schools that started a paddling team. So ILH lost a berth to Big Island I think.


#4 Thu, 02/02/2012 - 8:46pm


Kalama's not coaching anymore is he?


#5 Thu, 02/02/2012 - 10:21pm


From the race rules:( # of participating teams in league/# of participating teams in state) x (# of teams in state tournament)
No Kalama is not coaching anymore. Napali is.


#6 Fri, 02/03/2012 - 5:11pm


Girls: 1-PAC 5, 2-Kamehameha Kapalama,
Boys: 1- punahou, 2-Kamehameha Kapalama, 3-Kalaheo
Mix: 1- kamehameha kapalama, 2- Punahou, 3- Kalaheo
(had choke controversy in the mix race all day, including final)


#7 Fri, 02/03/2012 - 5:18pm


Bradah looks like you just got beat... so you obviously coach kalaheo who has fallen short a lot in the past couple years. So whats the controversy? why didn't they solve it?


#8 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 12:17am


Yea I coach Kalaheo, but no, I don't think we've "fallen short" at all the past few seasons. 3rd in the state is hardly falling short and for a small school like us to be even be considered with the big dogs like punahou and kamehameha who are perennially good is a great accomplishment in my mind. I graduated and paddled for Kamehameha and I know how hard they train, those kids deserve to win. We are always just grateful to be in the finals and have a chance, however large or small that chance may be.

As for the race yesterday, There were many issues all day long, I'll list them. I have my own opinions of them, everyone else should read and make your own judgements.

Lane flags- lane 1 was set up in the beginning of the day right on shore. Officials ended up moving lanes out of 1 and into 9. Lane flags also allegedly crooked and set up at different angles

Start flags- flags were waved differently all day. Officials said they would do this probably to avoid running starts and everyone to start at one time. That's fine, but better to just say no running starts instead of inconsistent random flag waving times.

Rigging- all canoes were rigged with quick straps. HCRA rules is rigging with ropes. Officials decide to leave it for the day cuz it would take too long to redo.

Loose quick straps- Kailua HS had a couple straps come loose during the race. One of the official boat holders holding canoes on the beach just tightened it. Didn't recheck iako length or the way it was rigged.

Delaminating na iako- several iako were cracking and delaminating

Official boat waking out canoe- nanakuli had an unfortunate incident where the starter boat waked them out off the start cuz they were close to the start line. (may have been close to get the flags on camera)

Rerun of both semifinal heats - because of the wake, both semifinal heats were rerun to give Nanakuli another chance. Roosevelt ends up not making finals, after making it the first time

Mix Finals - Kalaheo starts several feet behind line and does a mini running start just before green flag. Upon review to make sure Kalaheo does not cross the start line before, which they don't, officials see that kamehameha, seabury hall, and punahou were over the start line, who finish 1, 4, 2 respectively. Official call was DQ for all 3, however after a protest, all 3 were allowed to remain. Officials were saying there was no video evidence even though they went back to video to look to see if Kalaheo was over.

I would rather us beat kamehameha by actually beating them on the water, but also hope that everyone isnt given the runaround in an imprtant race like that. Just make calls consistent. I know it's hard to be an official and I applaud their efforts and commitment. Great race for all kids yesterday!


#9 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 9:02am


Awwright! Controversy! Lively up this forum a bit!


#10 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 9:04am


When the mixed results were finally read, Seabury Hall was third.


#11 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 9:26am


Girls: Pac 5 4:01, KSK 4:02, Seabury 4:06, KS Maui


#12 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 9:29am


Yea I heard them call Kalaheo 4th too. But they read the final mix results like 6 times with different schools in different orders. It was kinda bad. The final final where they handed out the medals the results were read with kalaheo 3rd. I don't have the times so I guess we'll have to wait for someone to post it to find out for sure.


#13 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 11:03am


There is about 30 seconds of the boys final on you tube. It's at half speed so it last 60 seconds. Sorry about the quality, it's a cheap hand held camera!

.be


#14 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 11:47am


i'm 100% biased, but i say Hilo is the best ever venue for states.

although i know there are a few people out there who will wholeheartedly say the opposite. especially a certain group of guys from Maryknoll.


#15 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 1:01pm


Jeremy, Hilo CAN treat you poorly! But I'll give you one thing... It IS a great venue.
Not sure if my crew would say the same tho.
It was a good race!

Also, 3rd is definitely not "falling short".
Big schools have a core of good paddlers by virtue of their size. It takes a lot of effort to take a small school population of people (under 1,600 students) and put out 6-9 great crews. It really takes 8-9 top paddlers to make a successful crew, not 3-4 or even 6.
Kalaheo, isn't small, but certainly not huge or overly-funded. Teams like Le Jardin, Pac5, they really have to work hard to build a core of kids that can perform at a Vars1 level, then to sustain that effort over a period of years is a whole other challenge.
Props all around, esp to Punahou that really pulled that together in the last few weeks and the whole KS system that put such a value on paddling. I wish all schools did.
Can't forget the non-O'ahu schools. Always so competitive and positive in how they race.


#16 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 1:43pm


sorry Kapono. Hilo can be bad too i suppose... like Einstein says, it's all relative. any crew that comes out on top will remember how ideal things were or the hardship they overcame. whereas anyone who wasn't fortunate to place near the top will remember how many things went wrong. part of that is our competitiveness and another part is our unwillingness to believe we were beaten. there has to be some external reason.

it's been said a few times before on here. the level of high school paddling is getting better every year! teams should be proud to even be making the semis or the finals. times that would have placed at states in years passed won't even get you into the finals now. amazing.


#17 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 2:12pm


Yes jc9, Hilo was a great place to have the race, I was just listing a few things that could have gone a lot smoother. Most of those issues were corrected without any harm. I am not complaining about where we placed, we actually had no idea what was going on until we were just about to leave the beach. We were all stoked to be 3rd behind the 2 giants. Just want the calls that are made to be consistent. If you are over the line off the start in a regatta, what does it matter if its a na opio race, OHCRA championships, mcfarlane race or the high school state race? Its still a DQ.
Either way, Kamehameha and Punahou boys were very fast and the level is getting better and better. Punahou's prelim time was 3:29!!!!! Holy sh!t!! I remember in high school when we had to get down to 3:50 to have a good chance. They were awesome and deserve some recognition.


#18 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 5:12pm


I agree with brad
The races were run poorly and at the high schools biggest stage. I'll give it to The schools from the ILH (especially the tiny girls from pac5). The ILH was faster all day long. I'm assuming the false start penalty got overturned because the officials were not able to see the start flags simultaneously with the 3 teams crossing the line at the same time on the "video" that they reviewed but never existed. But those were the most inconsistent calls at a race i've ever seen.
That being said Hilo is fun and i'd love to see another race there hopefully things are 10x smoother next time.


#19 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 7:04pm


Wait, wait, go back. B-rad, I'm lost on the mix race thing.

I have to write this again to make sense, upon video review (which isn't official? Or is?) Kalaheo was behind the line at the start and the others weren't - so the 3 over the line get dq'd, then the teams that were over the line protest (trying to justify why they broke the rules and were over the line?) And get the disqualification reversed?
What?
Sprints rock!


#20 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 7:08pm


Kalaheo = #1 in my book
:)


#21 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 9:15pm


b-rad, i'm always impressed with kalaheo. you guys as a team are usually one of the last 8 standing so kudos for that. some other names that come to mind are McKinley, KSBE, Punahou, Pac5, Le Jardin, Kapa'a, Kealakehe, Seabury... i don't mean to say you individually were complaining. i'm just saying it's human nature to want to qualify why or when things went wrong and/or deflect blame. racecar drivers will say the car or the track was bad, paddlers will say it was too windy or not windy or their boat was trimmed wrong, boxers will blame the judges, b-ball players will blame the refs. it's just the way it is.


#22 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 10:14pm


I guess there are 2 lessons to be learned from the races:
1. Even if you clearly break the rules, you can argue and talk your way out of it.

  1. You can deny anything. Even though I just looked at a crew on video in the exact same race as you, there is no video.

WOW. What are we teaching our kids? I cannot believe the crap that happens at state champs. Honestly, I worry for our future because we set such poor examples for our children.


#23 Sat, 02/04/2012 - 10:57pm


if it did go down as everyone says then that's a bummer. unfortunately any time an official has to make a decision a mistake can be made. the only way to protect your team is to make sure the choice or outcome is never determined by the officials. hard to do but the safest thing to shoot for. every year the ILH has protests and penalties for collisions in the open ocean turns. it was happening so much we finally had to tell our kids just avoid being next to another crew. a 30 minute race usually isn't decided in the 10 seconds it takes to go around the buoy anyway. maybe that's not the same as gambling on a running start but has anyone ever won states taking that kind of risk?

poopoo. no matter what happens in paddling our kids are screwed. the planet is jacked already.


#24 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 7:48am


On a lighter note, I want to give a shout out to the kids and coaches at Ke Kula o Ehunuikaimalino. The kids gave the best rendition of the star spangled banner and Hawaii Ponoi that I have ever heard in any event. I also heard them do an oli mahalo after the races. Very inspirational.
Maybe our kids aren't completely screwed after all.


#25 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 8:59am


I will completely agree with b-rad on the Ke Kula o Ehunuikaimalino a cappella performance, the Star Spangled Banner was better than 99% of what you hear at professional sports events, and Hawai'i Pono'i literally brought tears to my eyes.


#26 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 9:14am


Finals Results ... some fast times, first place mixed would have finished 4th in the boys race, first place girls would have taken 6th in the mix race .... sorry not to sure how to link on here

boys results
http://twitter.com/#!/Hawaii247/status/165634531234283520/photo/1

girls results
http://twitter.com/#!/Hawaii247/status/165634742853705730/photo/1

mix results
http://twitter.com/#!/Hawaii247/status/165635604888027136/photo/1


#27 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 9:42am


Congratulations to all school that participated in this year's High School State Canoe Race. Mahalo to those who sacrifice time to lead our youth and perpetuate our state sport. Mahalo to the race officials/volunteers that help make the State Race possible. Mahalo a Nui loa.

As a first year school participant in any high school sport and first ever State Race at our school, I was a bit surprised on the amount of confussion being that this high school canoe racing has been going on for 10+ years. In my humble opinion, it's a " classic " case of communication failure. The sad part of that all, our haum?na and coaches become the victims of it all. No can!

It also seemed as if it was " what was best for the adult " and not " was best for our haum?na " when it came to decisions. If haum?na is the FOCUS.... then decisions should be easy, right? It also seemed as a " rush, rush " event. Why only one day? Why at 10am? Is this how we treat our island sport? This high school canoe racing has SO much potential of being better than what it is and we need to TAP into it, quick.

Have more heats with less lanes ( why 8 and not 5? Have a prilim, quarter, semi and then finals. Less lanes can help with more canoes being available to eliminate long dely or transition periods from one race to another

The prilim, semi and final format this past weekend seemed as some school(s) might have got screwed or blessed however you want to look at it. You should at LEAST race twice to get to finals and not just one good heat and automatically finals. ( I know.... touchy subject )

Anyways, no matter the sport or location there will always be complaints, but it just a matter of minimizing the complaints.

Me ka ha'aha'a mau,
Eddie


#28 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 9:48am


I'm glad b-rad brought up Ke Kula o Ehunuikaimalino's singing, it was spectacular. It brought tears to my eyes also. After Oli Mahako they embraced Kealakehe HS paddlers in thanks for supporting their program all season. It was also so neat to hear their coach engage in all aspects of coaching (strategy, encouragement ,critique, and praise) in 'olelo Hawai'i.

The kids from Seabury Hall had a wonderful day competing in Hilo. They didn't let controversy and confusion at the end of the day overshadow the pride they felt representing their school, program, families, and island. All were bonded in this experience and as their coach I couldn't be more proud of how they conducted themselves and how they performed.

I would like to note that it is almost 48 hrs since the regatta ended and the HHSAA still hasn't posted the official results on their website sportshigh.com. If HHSAA needs help posting the results to their website, there are numerous volunteers, including myself, who are happy to help.


#29 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 11:17am


4th in the boys kailua high, 10 seniors 2 freshmen, 1 reggatta paddler


#30 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 11:34am


edhay,i could be totally wrong. but i thought the heat winners went straight to semis then finals so they race 3 times (heat-semi-final). the crews that don't qualify to go straight to semis race heat-quarter-semi-final. so depending on your route you will race three or four times to go finals.

as for the canoe shortage. this could be an issue with organization? in the past one boat per lane has gone like clockwork. the last state race i went to only had delays when the officials allowed extra rest time between mixed and boys/girls races for the athletes that were racing in both events. 5 lane races could be an option. but then you add more races to a day where people are claiming there's an issue with coordination.

i'm all for having either a long day or two days for states. and actually, several coaches i've talked to expressed interest in having multiple disciplines. something similar to olympic kayaking, outrigger world sprints, or track and field. i'm unsure what the disciplines are for worlds and what not. but a 200 or 250 meter final would be super fun to watch. why not have a longer race too? i think the OIA now races 1 mile races while the ILH does from 3 to 6 miles. why not have three disciplines? 1/4 mile, 1 mile, and 5 mile or 500m, 1000m, 10k?

a big reason for the single day 10am start could be avoiding the expense of a hotel stay. as an example, a crew from Kaua'i could fly out friday morning at 6:30 and get to Hilo by 830. this doesn't give a lot of leeway but it's doable and saves the families of the paddlers hundreds. Maui kids could also route through Honolulu (a pain i know) and get there at the same time.

as a coach in the past we used to prepare for the worse case scenario on race day. all our practices leading up to states would have had at least four timed runs in them. so if we were "blessed" with a competitive heat race we weren't in shock with the extra race in the quarters. honestly, if a crew is in shape this extra race doesn't make a huge difference. crews go through the quarters and still make the podium. also several paddlers win two titles in a day racing 5 times in two different divisions.


#31 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 12:47pm


They changed the format for states in 2010. Before then, it used to be the format jc9 is talking about where heat winners would go prelim-semis-finals and others would go prelim-quarters-semis-finals. Now, for whatever reason, (lack of funding maybe?) there is no quarterfinals and prelim winners go straight to finals.


#32 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 1:04pm


jc9_0- the way this year State race format was ( please forgive me if this is becomes unclear )
1. Two(2) seperate heats for varsity boys, varsity girls and basket mix.
2. The top 2 crews in the first and second prilim heats would automatically advance to the finals ( giving you 4 of the needed 8 canoes for the finals )
3. The semi final heats, 2 heats, consisted of schools that finished 3rd-8th place or times in their respected prilim heats.
4. Then the top 2 crews in those semi final heats would then advance to the final ( giving you the remaining 4 canoes to complete the 8 crews needed for finals )

As for traveling, yes, it can get exspensive to fly a day earlier, but hopefully hosting islands can help with those issues by opening up their school gyms so haumana and coaching staff can stay at.

I just see SO much more potential in this high paddling sport that we have much more resources we can tap into than we have now in place.

And to the COACH from Kailua High School, we need to hook up and make this happen. My name is Eddie Hayward the coach of Ke Kula 'o 'Ehunuikaimalino and we spoke at the coaches meeting in the morning when I brought up concerns.

Aloha


#33 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 2:15pm


I personally am a fan of the old style format because everyone who is in the finals will have raced in the semifinals.  they don't get the luxury of a 2 hour break, vs only a half hour break or so.  They changed the format of the races because of a budget cut.  There used to be 24 teams in 3 preliminary heats, 2 heats of 8 in the quarter final, 2 heats of 8 in the semifinal, and 1 heat of 8 in the final.  More teams participating = more fun.
 
In the coaches meeting, I had a concern that unfortunately i didn't share.  I was concerned that the races weren't going to be fun...sorry everyone, I should've spoken up.
 
On another note, escort boat wake sucks!  I feel for Nanakuli because that happened to me in high school in the FINAL event.  I have video proof and I may upload it just so people can see how much it affected us.  Fortunately for us, we still won (Kamehameha 2005, woohoo).  I can't imagine what we would have done had we lost.  In the future, I don't think re-racing should be an option unless there is something really bad.  These kinds of situations should be avoided all together


#34 Sun, 02/05/2012 - 4:27pm


thanks for the explanation. forgot how all that changed. i must be going crazy in my old age


#35 Mon, 02/06/2012 - 2:02pm


So, I got clarification from someone on what actually happened, since everyone's probably as confused as I was. Long story short, there was no official DQ. The officials couldn't agree or explain why there was a false start or if there even was one to begin with, and they prematurely called up all the coaches. It apparently seemed like they were trying to DQ people and find reasons to do it. Not sure about the protest, but it doesn't matter, since there was no DQ for anyone in the first place. There was also definitely no video camera, even though there was suppose to be one, and the high speed camera that was used only takes pictures at the start and finish but didnt show anything and there was no way to tell when the start of the race actually happened as there was communication failure there too about what constitutes "the start" of the race. Very poorly organized regatta, with lots of communication errors and a bunch of non-compliance with race rules.
As far as the re-race of the mix semifinals, the official boat was apparently told multiple times to back up, as they were too close, but didn't. So we had the fiasco and the re-race.

All in all, I'm glad that the mix crews placed where they deserve to be after racing, and weren't affected by any bad calls. I know there are a lot of coaches that have already posted and more that are reading this. Let us all go back to our league race directors and AD's and make sure this kind of mishap NEVER happens again. Everyone wants a fair race, and the kids deserve better than what we gave them.


#36 Tue, 02/07/2012 - 10:18pm


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