An under 30 team

Kaihe Chong first pick

#1 Tue, 07/17/2012 - 10:15pm

add to that Keahiakahoe's young talent with Kalei Bobby and Kekoa and got over 12 solid guys...

#3 Wed, 07/18/2012 - 10:33am

Julz,
you mean Justin "you like die?" Watts

#5 Wed, 07/18/2012 - 12:22pm

the best ones are the ones that go to practice and try to improve daily. i have no idea who those are. i'm just saying.

#7 Thu, 07/19/2012 - 6:31pm

I know that winning Moloka'i was never mentioned as the intent of this hypothetical "under 30's crew," but, I do have to agree partially with Ben Dover's comment.

It is disconcerting to me that Hawai'i isn't getting any closer to winning the Hoe. At this rate, unless Shell Va'a, OPT, EDT, etc. decide not to come, Hawai'i will never win the Moloka'i Hoe again. I'm not trying to be fatalistic or defeatist, I just think we need to come to terms with that and move on. Primo has done an awesome job being the fastest crew that Hawai'i has ever had, and they've gotten closer than any of us mortals could ever hope to get. Hopefully they keep going out there and kicking butt, but, as awesome as they are, I don't think that they'll beat Shell Va'a.

What I think we need is a group of young guys who are willing to literally give their lives to paddling. The make-up of the team can be "all-stars," meaning that they are the best youth that Hawai'i has to offer, but they need to become part of a club or larger organization. The core of the group should all be younger than 25. They need to train together at least 5 times a week, and they need to do it for at least three years. The goal (winning Moloka'i) has to be clear from the start. We (everyone who isn't in the crew) would need to do all we can to support them.

It's easy to say, but it's incredibly hard to do. Finding the individuals would be really difficult. Making sure they lived close enough geographically to train together five times a week would be even harder. They would all need flexible jobs, outside financial support, and the backing of a large organization. I don't think it's impossible, it would just take a heroic effort.

But, if they succeeded, it would result in a paradigm shift in paddling in Hawai'i. If we could be on top again, all of Hawai'i would feel it and I think that the level of competition in Hawai'i would rise to match that crew. But, it starts with a dozen extremely motivated youth.

#9 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 11:35am

yeah Luke, it's a fantastic idea to be sure. i think it was attempted a year or two ago. but i'm not sure everyone involved really realized how much time, money, and training was actually needed. but it almost happened.

i was looking at these numbers some and it got me to thinking. i used to believe that all the best athletes in Hawai'i all participated in other sports so this was why paddling would always fall short. i was stupid to think so. the whole nation to our south that is producing such great paddlers is only home to 178,133 people. yet it produces so many amazing paddlers. O'ahu alone has 953,207 people. 5.35 times more people than our neighbors to the south. the talent pool on O'ahu is scary. There is no geographic limitation to speak of. Just a little recognized potential (and a ton of hard work) leads to athletes like Pat, Ryan, Kalei, Kaihe, and many many others. when you think about all the advantages athletes in Hawai'i have, it's almost embarrassing that progress hasn't been made yet.

my only regret is that i'm not independently wealthy so that i can't fund an effort like Luke talks about. and also props to Primo for carrying the flag thus far. who will take up the charge next as these guys head into their 30's and 40's thus passing their prime?

#11 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 1:03pm

Luke and Jeremy are on to something but its nothing new. They had the vision of the HVA team going to Tahiti and racing Hawaiki Nui and it was a great experience for those kids to see that we as Hawaii need to get our shit together. It's whether we can build from that experience and take it to the next level. Getting a little off topic with the style of boat conversation. There about 1284957205 threads on this site to talk about that stuff. Hawaii can take it to the next level. It is possible. A few things need to align first but its doable.

#13 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 5:39pm

I think making a young team all starts with a coach. First step would be to find a coach, or a coach finding those young paddlers and bringing them together. The thing about a young crew... is that they're young, pretty much still kids, and they can't coach or govern themselves. When you look at the Dolans, Kaihe, Kalei and such, they've all been training with HCKT, and have had the chance and are still being trained by a handful of great coaches. I don't think those young promising paddlers will form an "all star" team on their own, I think someone else, older more experienced needs to go out and find them, bring them together and train them. Kinda like manny did with the Pa'a juniors. It wasn't the juniors that made that Paa crew what is was, it was the coach and outside support of others, but I'm just a kid too so I may be wrong, probably just talking nonsense

#15 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 9:09pm

Something I used to think would be super cool was if the University of Hawaii would back a canoe paddling team. I know, obviously there would be no other schools to race. But I feel like the paddlers mentioned train just as much and as hard as UH athletes and it would be awesome if these paddlers got the benefits that those UH athletes get (early registration on classes, special meal plans, more leeway on due dates for exams or papers that conflict with the big events, flights paid for off island events, etc.)

I know at one point all these guys were attending UH at the same time: Will Reichenstein, kai chong, Nathan Loyola, makana denton, simeon ke paloma, kalei kahookele, matt crowley, and i'm sure there are more.

Idk…just fantasizing. They could be team UH but race through an HCRA club to do the hoe or maybe eventually even start a University of Hawaii OHCRA club! I just think it be a cool way for those guys to get the special privileges that other college athletes get. And if it took off, there would be lots of young UH athletes trying out every year, which would start to build good program all on college aged guys.

#17 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 10:09pm

Lets be realistic here. No one has talked about the big thing that makes all this happen. that is $$$$$$$$. Most the tahitian crews have it. A couple hawaii crews have it, but to make this happen over three years you gotta take into account the money needed for races, escort boat fees, entry fees, registration fees, airfare, lodging, food, equipment, etc. Your talking about a big budget. This is truly a great idea but nothing seems to get done without money. So before putting all this together you need to find a big sponsor that see's the same vision, donate a gazillion dollars so these kids can be paid to paddle as well as the coaches, and then it would seem more feasible.

#19 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 8:54am

their goal isn't to focus on any one team or crew. Its an emphasis on an entire club as a whole. Its a big budget for the entire club. You need something like live strong. A focus on one group of 15 guys. Year round training, no drama, everyone gets paid a stipend to paddle or coach, and the best nine (Guys that make the boat go the fastest) race. Experience will play a big role so the more time in the ocean the better. But again your talking a way bigger budget than outrigger. Maybe Chevron would be interested or 76 or better yet ALOHA gas station. Also paddling isn't popular in Hawaii like it is in Tahiti. Thats why its so hard to find sponsors willing to give big amounts of cash for paddling in hawaii. In tahiti paddling is like the NFL in the US. Imagine the sponsors if paddling was as big as the NFL.

#21 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:05am

are there any under 30s good female paddlers?

#23 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 1:59pm

I feel like the excuse is always that there isn't money. When Lanikai was dominant for years in the Moloka'i Channel, was it because they had more money that anyone else? When Fare Ara won Hawaiki Nui, did they have more money? I would bet that most teams nowadays spend more in a month than Fare Ara spent in a year. I don't think money has much to do with it. Obviously it would help enormously if this theoretical youth team had an unlimited budget, but would it make them better paddlers? I don't think so.

Shell doesn't win simply because they outspend everyone. They win because they train together more than anyone else. Flexible jobs, good coaching, dedicated paddlers, and a supportive country all add up to that. It might take more effort on our part to get the motivation without the finances, but it's not impossible.

The HVA was never meant as a crew that would win Moloka'i. The entire idea was to send a crew to Hawaiki Nui, so that the individuals that were a part of it would come back to their clubs stoked on paddling. The ultimate goal was to develop the potential to win Moloka'i through stoking them out on international paddling. But we never deluded ourselves into believing that the HVA crew would actually win the channel (and none of them were even 18, so it was never a possibility). A couple of lessons that we learned from the experience:
1) You need a group of people willing to work really hard to put it together. One person dedicated to coaching, one to organizing, and one to sponsorship.
2) Getting youth to paddle together more than twice a week if they're not part of the same club is impossible. Respectfully trying to go around the clubs won't work. Either you need to build the program within a club or start a new club. But an "extra-curricular" organization doesn't work.
3) Kids are awesome and have more heart than any of us.

I strongly believe that if twelve youth got together and said they wanted to make this happen, they could make it happen. It needs to come from them, because the motivation can't come from anywhere else. Twelve fired up kids who are willing to put their lives on hold and train together five days a week for three years will be able to do whatever they want. People would be tripping over each other for the opportunity to coach them.

So, what I think we need to get this started:
- Twelve people. The majority of which are under 25, live close enough together, have flexible enough jobs to train together every day, and are willing to go under one centralized club or organization.
- A coach.
- An overall organizer.
- A dedicated fundraiser.
- Two canoes.
- A couple of dedicated cash sponsors.

If there are twelve kids, the rest will fall into line.

#25 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 3:14pm

For what its worth. Chemistry is a great start to a good team. a race within a race. everyone on the same page. Buddys on and off the water. Its also great to have a support team of family members, volunteer's, elders, and fans. There to pitching in whenever needed .

#29 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 10:43am

there is one league that only races distance. it has won the majority of the high school championships for boys and girls. coincidence? meh

#31 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:51am

kaihe look what you started

#33 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:06pm

Money is definitely an issue, but it shouldn't prevent everyone from taking these steps to push hawaii's level of competition forward. It seems like every time someone has an idea, someone brings up the money issue and nothing gets done. People are just waiting for funds to come in before taking actions towards actual paddling, or putting these kinds of teams together that if the funds ever do come in, hawaii will have the financial aspect of the race taken care of, but it won't be ready for the actual "paddling" aspect of the race. I think the best thing everyone can do is stop fantasizing about what could be, stop worrying about logistics, and just keep training hard. If things work out with all star teams and money in the future, then that's great... if not, that's ok too. Everyone should be paddling simply out of the love for paddling anyway

#35 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:31pm

Interesting thread that has morphed into 2 topics (under 30 talent and all star crews).
As far as 'under 30 talent' in Hawaii...many of the names have been mentioned above. All of these guys will be getting faster and pushing the sport here for years to come. The 1man canoe has provided a platform for individuals to make a name for themselves.
In regards to 'all star crews', they have been around for decades. In fact, many have won Molokai Hoe races or consistently placed well. Illinois Brigade (80's) and Panamuna (90's) were comprised of top kayak and ski paddlers from the U.S. and Australia respectively. HCKT had a few very strong results including 2nd in '92. More recently we have seen NZ/Hawaii win ('01, '03) and Tui Tonga and Primo have top 3 results. ALL of these crews were comprised of 'top tier' paddlers at that time. Age was not a factor.
Maybe NOW a 'youth' all star team should be developed from Hawaii. Again, as Luke mentioned with a 3 year window to develop and perform. The talent that Shell Vaa has now is almost unbeatable as seen over the last 6 Molokai Hoe races.

#37 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 5:09pm

That seems to be a slap in the face of the veteran paddlers in Hawaii like theyre all washed up .... youth is needed but you cant just put a group of all star one man paddlers under 30 and expect to beat shell . Such thinking is what I call "novice syndrome" wich by the sound of most of these posts seems to be prevalent . Any championship team in any sport takes a combo of youth and experience ... nuckle heads

#39 Mon, 07/30/2012 - 12:28pm

Must be a perception thing. the way I read most of these comments is that guys are looking for a way to build a solid core of young guys that will train together for a period of years in order to mature and bond into a cohesive team instead of taking the all star route. ideally a great crew would be made up of young people that are average or unproven but that are willing grow into a good or great team member.

#41 Mon, 07/30/2012 - 1:08pm