An under 30 team

Who would you pick for an under 30 9-man team? Any thoughts?

Submitted by thespear on Tue, 07/17/2012 - 9:51pm

Kaihe Chong first pick

#1 Tue, 07/17/2012 - 10:15pm

Justin "The Great White/60/Killah" Watts
Alika "Ali G" Guillaume
Makana "Mad Dawg" Denton
Alex "Alekkkkk" Epling
Jordan "J2K" Wong
Nate "Nate Dogg" Loyola
Kai "Firebreathing" Chong
"Youngboy" Nick Herrera
Puni "Pundog" Freitas
Spencer "SYorkshire" York

all under 28...

all beast...

#2 Wed, 07/18/2012 - 10:15am

add to that Keahiakahoe's young talent with Kalei Bobby and Kekoa and got over 12 solid guys...

#3 Wed, 07/18/2012 - 10:33am

i think he meant all Hawai'i. not all windward O'ahu julz.

#4 Wed, 07/18/2012 - 10:48am

you mean Justin "you like die?" Watts

#5 Wed, 07/18/2012 - 12:22pm

oh sorry germy. and yes toad da big jaydubb. theres choke other damn good under 30s i just picked 10 of my friends that i paddle with. theres still kalei bobby maui and kekoa from keahiakahoe that are killing it in regatta now and will be a force in distance. plus sim boog and banfield at outrigger. there are these guys at lanikai the dolans idk if anyone has heard of them but they are specimens along with crowley and roney. so my list is super bias but that the point of ocpaddler and this thread i thought? and cant forget the cali boys will danny and tpop.

#6 Wed, 07/18/2012 - 5:26pm

the best ones are the ones that go to practice and try to improve daily. i have no idea who those are. i'm just saying.

#7 Thu, 07/19/2012 - 6:31pm

a large number of racers in the 19-29 and the 18 and under division are very good it would be hard to make an "all-star" team, too many ego's to deal with. eveyone should just strive to bring back the molokai race to a hawaii crew no matter what club or crew.just a thought, but ah everyone knows everything on here so no matter.

#8 Fri, 07/20/2012 - 9:15pm

I know that winning Moloka'i was never mentioned as the intent of this hypothetical "under 30's crew," but, I do have to agree partially with Ben Dover's comment.

It is disconcerting to me that Hawai'i isn't getting any closer to winning the Hoe. At this rate, unless Shell Va'a, OPT, EDT, etc. decide not to come, Hawai'i will never win the Moloka'i Hoe again. I'm not trying to be fatalistic or defeatist, I just think we need to come to terms with that and move on. Primo has done an awesome job being the fastest crew that Hawai'i has ever had, and they've gotten closer than any of us mortals could ever hope to get. Hopefully they keep going out there and kicking butt, but, as awesome as they are, I don't think that they'll beat Shell Va'a.

What I think we need is a group of young guys who are willing to literally give their lives to paddling. The make-up of the team can be "all-stars," meaning that they are the best youth that Hawai'i has to offer, but they need to become part of a club or larger organization. The core of the group should all be younger than 25. They need to train together at least 5 times a week, and they need to do it for at least three years. The goal (winning Moloka'i) has to be clear from the start. We (everyone who isn't in the crew) would need to do all we can to support them.

It's easy to say, but it's incredibly hard to do. Finding the individuals would be really difficult. Making sure they lived close enough geographically to train together five times a week would be even harder. They would all need flexible jobs, outside financial support, and the backing of a large organization. I don't think it's impossible, it would just take a heroic effort.

But, if they succeeded, it would result in a paradigm shift in paddling in Hawai'i. If we could be on top again, all of Hawai'i would feel it and I think that the level of competition in Hawai'i would rise to match that crew. But, it starts with a dozen extremely motivated youth.

#9 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 11:35am

Luke, you're onto something....

#10 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 12:24pm

yeah Luke, it's a fantastic idea to be sure. i think it was attempted a year or two ago. but i'm not sure everyone involved really realized how much time, money, and training was actually needed. but it almost happened.

i was looking at these numbers some and it got me to thinking. i used to believe that all the best athletes in Hawai'i all participated in other sports so this was why paddling would always fall short. i was stupid to think so. the whole nation to our south that is producing such great paddlers is only home to 178,133 people. yet it produces so many amazing paddlers. O'ahu alone has 953,207 people. 5.35 times more people than our neighbors to the south. the talent pool on O'ahu is scary. There is no geographic limitation to speak of. Just a little recognized potential (and a ton of hard work) leads to athletes like Pat, Ryan, Kalei, Kaihe, and many many others. when you think about all the advantages athletes in Hawai'i have, it's almost embarrassing that progress hasn't been made yet.

my only regret is that i'm not independently wealthy so that i can't fund an effort like Luke talks about. and also props to Primo for carrying the flag thus far. who will take up the charge next as these guys head into their 30's and 40's thus passing their prime?

#11 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 1:03pm

Are we going to be training the guys to run open class (OC) boats or the fishing boats (FB)? If it's oc that we are using we need to draw the Tahitians to that race. Right now they are not really racing Olomau or Eeno. If it's the Hoe that we want to win then I think it might be more of a struggle to get the kids to commit the time needed in the FB's. I imagine these guys want to surf and show off their skill, and in an fb that really can't be done (as much). Plus, it will be a lot easier to get the guys to commit to put in the time when they are having fun. Oc boats are more fun than fb's. If this select group is put together then we would be smarter to train for the future of races instead of the current status quo.

We as trailblazers need to commit to one of the other. We are sort of doing this half-ass. We want open races but yet we still all race the fb. If we want to make the main race oc race then the ones who want the change need to make a stand. All do oc race and forget the fb races. (Don't take this as me wanting only one, I think you should be able to race what you want, but for the purpose of making change happen faster I believe that kind of statement needs to be made) I dread doing my fb races this year. I am only looking forward to the oc races with my club. I feel a little like a big puss doing the fb races, I feel like I'm not doing what I really want to be doing or should be doing or standing for what I think is right.

I've committed to the team this year. But, next year when I grow some mana-saks I'm going to going to state that I'll only be doing the oc races.

#12 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 2:14pm

Luke and Jeremy are on to something but its nothing new. They had the vision of the HVA team going to Tahiti and racing Hawaiki Nui and it was a great experience for those kids to see that we as Hawaii need to get our shit together. It's whether we can build from that experience and take it to the next level. Getting a little off topic with the style of boat conversation. There about 1284957205 threads on this site to talk about that stuff. Hawaii can take it to the next level. It is possible. A few things need to align first but its doable.

#13 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 5:39pm

@julz87- You build your plan not knowing what type of boat you want to race, but just saying you want to win. I'll build my plan knowing exactly what type of boat I want to race and we'll see who wins.

At a high level (which is what I think we are discussing here) the type of canoe we train to win on will matter. At such a level it will almost be like two different sports..... Formula One racers aren't doing practice laps in stock car nascars. But, if you think it doesn't matter what they train in, you should let the Formula One guys know that they can train in the cheaper stock cars and still be good in their Formula One race. HMMMMM

#14 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 7:28pm

I think making a young team all starts with a coach. First step would be to find a coach, or a coach finding those young paddlers and bringing them together. The thing about a young crew... is that they're young, pretty much still kids, and they can't coach or govern themselves. When you look at the Dolans, Kaihe, Kalei and such, they've all been training with HCKT, and have had the chance and are still being trained by a handful of great coaches. I don't think those young promising paddlers will form an "all star" team on their own, I think someone else, older more experienced needs to go out and find them, bring them together and train them. Kinda like manny did with the Pa'a juniors. It wasn't the juniors that made that Paa crew what is was, it was the coach and outside support of others, but I'm just a kid too so I may be wrong, probably just talking nonsense

#15 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 9:09pm

heathyearth, Shell Va'a, EDT, OPT are racing in Tahiti with Tahitian canoes. When they come to Hawaii, they paddle "Fishing canoes". They just train to win, whatever canoe they're paddling. A little secret for you, even if the race rules are 150kg V6 in Tahiti, and 180kg OC6 in Hawaii, Shell always train with 200+kg V6...

Also, kids in Tahiti want to paddle because paddlers are everywhere on TV, in the news, in magazines, in ads, etc.

#16 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 9:17pm

Something I used to think would be super cool was if the University of Hawaii would back a canoe paddling team. I know, obviously there would be no other schools to race. But I feel like the paddlers mentioned train just as much and as hard as UH athletes and it would be awesome if these paddlers got the benefits that those UH athletes get (early registration on classes, special meal plans, more leeway on due dates for exams or papers that conflict with the big events, flights paid for off island events, etc.)

I know at one point all these guys were attending UH at the same time: Will Reichenstein, kai chong, Nathan Loyola, makana denton, simeon ke paloma, kalei kahookele, matt crowley, and i'm sure there are more.

Idk…just fantasizing. They could be team UH but race through an HCRA club to do the hoe or maybe eventually even start a University of Hawaii OHCRA club! I just think it be a cool way for those guys to get the special privileges that other college athletes get. And if it took off, there would be lots of young UH athletes trying out every year, which would start to build good program all on college aged guys.

#17 Tue, 07/24/2012 - 10:09pm

Great topic. Now, how do we sustain this interest and passion, and how do we make it grow among all the layers involved in youth OC racing development. To me, this topic spills over the boundaries of Hawai’i versus Tahiti for supremacy in the Kaiwi Channel. And yet this great paddling rivalry is feeding an epic battle that can inspire generations of youth all over the globe—given the right media exposure—and have positive repercussion among ocean users of all ages : because it’s also essential to protect our ocean playground.
Dreaming big! It seems to me that there is no point in dreaming small!
The last two OC related video stories I completed (in 2011 & 12) were about youth OC paddling in HI. . Reason I bring this up, is that I would do more of these in a heartbeat to support this cause. It is one small component but as Hiro points out, media attention can have—among other things—an inspiring impact. Aloha,

#18 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 6:43am

Lets be realistic here. No one has talked about the big thing that makes all this happen. that is $$$$$$$$. Most the tahitian crews have it. A couple hawaii crews have it, but to make this happen over three years you gotta take into account the money needed for races, escort boat fees, entry fees, registration fees, airfare, lodging, food, equipment, etc. Your talking about a big budget. This is truly a great idea but nothing seems to get done without money. So before putting all this together you need to find a big sponsor that see's the same vision, donate a gazillion dollars so these kids can be paid to paddle as well as the coaches, and then it would seem more feasible.

#19 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 8:54am

that's a good point jimmy. then the question becomes, why hasn't it happened at a place like outrigger?

they've had great coaches come through there, great facilities, a big budget, etc. what's the missing element?

#20 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 9:11am

their goal isn't to focus on any one team or crew. Its an emphasis on an entire club as a whole. Its a big budget for the entire club. You need something like live strong. A focus on one group of 15 guys. Year round training, no drama, everyone gets paid a stipend to paddle or coach, and the best nine (Guys that make the boat go the fastest) race. Experience will play a big role so the more time in the ocean the better. But again your talking a way bigger budget than outrigger. Maybe Chevron would be interested or 76 or better yet ALOHA gas station. Also paddling isn't popular in Hawaii like it is in Tahiti. Thats why its so hard to find sponsors willing to give big amounts of cash for paddling in hawaii. In tahiti paddling is like the NFL in the US. Imagine the sponsors if paddling was as big as the NFL.

#21 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:05am

Thanks Hiro for the backup. Justin and Jimmy both bring up good scenarios. UH has athletic money to spend. I did a final paper for my business writing class on the UH Athletic Department spending. The only problem with the UH idea is what happens once you graduate? The team needs to be together for longer than 4 years to see big success. A UH development team for a bigger Aloha Gas team maybe. Like a minor league baseball club for the MLB. Jimmy is right we need money. Bottom line. And like Hiro said media attention. The problem is surfing in Hawaii is glorified to the extent that paddling is in Tahiti. Everybody in Tahiti know what Manutea and Steeve look like just like everyone in Hawaii knows John John or Sonny as famous pro surfers. We need exposure to paddling to get recognition. Jimmy and Kai and Karel need to be on Wheaties boxes (or SPAM cans) to set it up for the future guys.

#22 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 11:37am

are there any under 30s good female paddlers?

#23 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 1:59pm

I think everyone brings up good points.

Pushing the limits with the unlimited boats is going to make the sport even bigger and thus drawn more attention. We need to make the sport fun and good things will follow. Races like the Olamau will bring this to the forefront. I think an iron division in the Molokai hoe would be very intriguing as well.

#24 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 2:15pm

I feel like the excuse is always that there isn't money. When Lanikai was dominant for years in the Moloka'i Channel, was it because they had more money that anyone else? When Fare Ara won Hawaiki Nui, did they have more money? I would bet that most teams nowadays spend more in a month than Fare Ara spent in a year. I don't think money has much to do with it. Obviously it would help enormously if this theoretical youth team had an unlimited budget, but would it make them better paddlers? I don't think so.

Shell doesn't win simply because they outspend everyone. They win because they train together more than anyone else. Flexible jobs, good coaching, dedicated paddlers, and a supportive country all add up to that. It might take more effort on our part to get the motivation without the finances, but it's not impossible.

The HVA was never meant as a crew that would win Moloka'i. The entire idea was to send a crew to Hawaiki Nui, so that the individuals that were a part of it would come back to their clubs stoked on paddling. The ultimate goal was to develop the potential to win Moloka'i through stoking them out on international paddling. But we never deluded ourselves into believing that the HVA crew would actually win the channel (and none of them were even 18, so it was never a possibility). A couple of lessons that we learned from the experience:
1) You need a group of people willing to work really hard to put it together. One person dedicated to coaching, one to organizing, and one to sponsorship.
2) Getting youth to paddle together more than twice a week if they're not part of the same club is impossible. Respectfully trying to go around the clubs won't work. Either you need to build the program within a club or start a new club. But an "extra-curricular" organization doesn't work.
3) Kids are awesome and have more heart than any of us.

I strongly believe that if twelve youth got together and said they wanted to make this happen, they could make it happen. It needs to come from them, because the motivation can't come from anywhere else. Twelve fired up kids who are willing to put their lives on hold and train together five days a week for three years will be able to do whatever they want. People would be tripping over each other for the opportunity to coach them.

So, what I think we need to get this started:
- Twelve people. The majority of which are under 25, live close enough together, have flexible enough jobs to train together every day, and are willing to go under one centralized club or organization.
- A coach.
- An overall organizer.
- A dedicated fundraiser.
- Two canoes.
- A couple of dedicated cash sponsors.

If there are twelve kids, the rest will fall into line.

#25 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 3:14pm

Luke, will you be the coach, the organizer or the fundraiser ?

#26 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 8:42pm

The thing about OHCRA/HCRA is that you have to be registered under a club...which I don't see as a problem, but then you have guys that don't want to paddle for a club other than their own..." Oh, I don't want to paddle for that club, why don't they just come under this one?" is just one of the things i've heard. As a young guy I think that luke has a good point, money isn't everything. However, it does help. But do you need money to wake up in the morning, to drive to the beach and paddle with eight or ten other guys...NO! You don't. What's so hard about training together in a six man a few times a week. When it's not six man day go one man. Honestly, if someone were to put together something I would join in a heart beat. The thing is are there other guys that would do the same? Would other guys leave their "ego's" at home and forget about their club for a second and think more in the future about winning for Hawaii? Who cares what it say's in the results...sure PRIMO is registered under Wailea, but we still know them as team primo.

#27 Wed, 07/25/2012 - 9:19pm

Put it this way. How do you pay for the gas to drive to practice. who pays for the canoes or one mans or escort boats. Money is huge if you have it, it can make a huge difference and possibly be a swinging point to get people that wouldn't paddle for that club to maybe consider it. Hypothetically imagine you being able to provide a little amount of money to each paddler and pay coaches. You would spark some big interest. Not that people aren't willing to volunteer there time and not that you can't do it without money. I'm just saying a huge chunk of change would make it totally doable and probably produce a top result a bit quicker. Then it would come down to commitment of the youth paddler?????? I think if primo had access to larger amounts of money we might be able to produce a better result. Its hard when all the paddlers are on different islands. But we do it because we love the sport, the people, and having a great time together on the ocean. The best thing about primo is we can go do what we do when we want no club restrictions or permission needed. No drama just pure fun, and everyones committed to putting in their best effort.

#28 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 7:17am

For what its worth. Chemistry is a great start to a good team. a race within a race. everyone on the same page. Buddys on and off the water. Its also great to have a support team of family members, volunteer's, elders, and fans. There to pitching in whenever needed .

#29 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 10:43am

An earlier post suggested there should be some type of program at UH Manoa. Quoted were names of students attending doubling as awesome paddlers that could have made up a crew. Imagine all the Hawaii colleges, BYUH, Chaminade, UH Hilo, UH Maui, HPU, etc. all having long distance crews to compete in a collegiate series. To provide a feeder system, create a high school program that focuses on long distance races. There is currently a HHSAA Sprint Championships (regatta), but nothing that focuses on the long distance races. Something to chew on.....

#30 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:26am

there is one league that only races distance. it has won the majority of the high school championships for boys and girls. coincidence? meh

#31 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 11:51am

jc9_0 is correct, the ILH paddling season only consists of distance races ranging from 3 miles up to 5+ miles.
if anyone followed this past HHSAA paddling championship race on Hilo in February, the ILH dominated the finals finishing less than a second of each other in all 3 events (boys, girls & mix)
The OIA started doing longer events, I believe they did 3 races that were distance this past season, as opposed to just sprints

The university of Hawaii did once consider a paddling program for women, but opted to revive track instead.

They still have outrigger canoe paddling listed in this document dated this year with coaching salaries
(scroll to page 6)

#32 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 12:37pm

kaihe look what you started

#33 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 1:06pm

I like the collegiate sport suggestions. I believe UH was pondering womens paddling maybe 10-12 years ago but it never panned out.

Perhaps someone could suggest a UH sponsored Stevie Wonder concert for $250,000, but instead take the money and create a paddling program at UH. just a thought.

#34 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 2:11pm

Money is definitely an issue, but it shouldn't prevent everyone from taking these steps to push hawaii's level of competition forward. It seems like every time someone has an idea, someone brings up the money issue and nothing gets done. People are just waiting for funds to come in before taking actions towards actual paddling, or putting these kinds of teams together that if the funds ever do come in, hawaii will have the financial aspect of the race taken care of, but it won't be ready for the actual "paddling" aspect of the race. I think the best thing everyone can do is stop fantasizing about what could be, stop worrying about logistics, and just keep training hard. If things work out with all star teams and money in the future, then that's great... if not, that's ok too. Everyone should be paddling simply out of the love for paddling anyway

#35 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 3:31pm

Luke's most recent post sounds very similar to what we almost has at Kailua CC a few years ago. It has since then changed but the pieces almost fell into place. I was a high school coach in the OIA and have been trying to do everything in my power to get the OIA amongst the ranks of the ILH. Got lucky a few time and came close a few more but that's a whole other story. We do need to start it young. From coaching regatta for several years I'll tell you its hard to motivate teenagers to commit their lives with there not being a huge future in paddling. They play football to go to college and get scholarships and such. I'd love to see something develop over the next few years to get a solid group of guys that all have the same big dream. I'd do my part, however insignificant it is, to help and I feel that most paddlers in Hawaii want to see Hawaii at the top and would also contribute any little bit to help.

#36 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 4:52pm

Interesting thread that has morphed into 2 topics (under 30 talent and all star crews).
As far as 'under 30 talent' in Hawaii...many of the names have been mentioned above. All of these guys will be getting faster and pushing the sport here for years to come. The 1man canoe has provided a platform for individuals to make a name for themselves.
In regards to 'all star crews', they have been around for decades. In fact, many have won Molokai Hoe races or consistently placed well. Illinois Brigade (80's) and Panamuna (90's) were comprised of top kayak and ski paddlers from the U.S. and Australia respectively. HCKT had a few very strong results including 2nd in '92. More recently we have seen NZ/Hawaii win ('01, '03) and Tui Tonga and Primo have top 3 results. ALL of these crews were comprised of 'top tier' paddlers at that time. Age was not a factor.
Maybe NOW a 'youth' all star team should be developed from Hawaii. Again, as Luke mentioned with a 3 year window to develop and perform. The talent that Shell Vaa has now is almost unbeatable as seen over the last 6 Molokai Hoe races.

#37 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 5:09pm

@Nathan L - If I was the type of guy that hits a like button, I would give your last post the "Like" tap.

Different projects require different tactics- I think your tactic is the only plausible option. You go to battle with what you got, not what you wish you had.

No club will get the talent needed to win Hoe. It will have to be an Allstar team.....that is coached like a club. Lanikai with Dolan x 2 and Roney seem to be the closest out there that could beat Tahitians in Eono maybe. That canoe would have 3 guys with the previous dedication (and God given or evolution given talent) needed. Not sure who else is over there with that current skill though and that young. I'm not saying the youth route is the route to go, but if it is, those three seem to be good core. If you're going to go the club route.

Keizo- can we get a paddles up or down button on here!!

#38 Thu, 07/26/2012 - 9:49pm

That seems to be a slap in the face of the veteran paddlers in Hawaii like theyre all washed up .... youth is needed but you cant just put a group of all star one man paddlers under 30 and expect to beat shell . Such thinking is what I call "novice syndrome" wich by the sound of most of these posts seems to be prevalent . Any championship team in any sport takes a combo of youth and experience ... nuckle heads

#39 Mon, 07/30/2012 - 12:28pm

@paddlepimp- I specifically say in my post that I am not endorsing the "youth route".

#40 Mon, 07/30/2012 - 1:00pm

Must be a perception thing. the way I read most of these comments is that guys are looking for a way to build a solid core of young guys that will train together for a period of years in order to mature and bond into a cohesive team instead of taking the all star route. ideally a great crew would be made up of young people that are average or unproven but that are willing grow into a good or great team member.

#41 Mon, 07/30/2012 - 1:08pm

What a great thread, as well as a long overdue discussion! Kudos to Luke for his insight and proposals. I have the advantage of hindsight (Kailua H.S. grad, 70 y/o, former president of Off Shore when we were really good), so please accept my input from that perspective.
It sounds as though there is a lot of enthusiasm for improving the competitiveness of Hawaiian paddling on a world class level. It also sounds like nearly everyone is WAITING on someone/something else to happen before joining in (e.g. get some money, someone to organize and setup, coach to step forward). I can assure you that the success of this venture will only occur if the drive and motivation is supplied by the paddlers themselves. If you want this to happen and are willing to "do WHATEVER it takes," then step up now!
This proposal gets me really pumped and if I still lived in Hawaii, I WOULD STEP FORWARD NOW. Danny Ching has started a similar venture here in SoCal with the Team 404 Simple Mobile, and his aspirations are the same as yours. Rest assured that you will be hearing more from these dedicated paddlers in the very near future. Just do it!!
Re: the subject of sponsorship money, it ain't gonna happen until you start getting outrigger racing publicized in the mainstream media. Sponsors want to see a good return for their investment and they will not contribute significant funds out of the goodness of their hearts. Most of the current publicity is of a very limited nature (e.g. Monday morning Star Advertiser, OHCRA, OCPaddler, etc.), and I will wager that the only people who see these obscure results are paddlers and their families..........the audience is not very large!
The potential talent pool in Hawaii already far exceeds that of Tahiti, as has already been pointed out. Identifying and grooming the athletes who want to make a full and lengthy commitment is the challenge.
Don't get bogged down in the details and analysis, just step up and make it happen NOW! I wish you the very best success, and I further wish that I was there to join with you in this marvelous pursuit.

Jerry Guy

#42 Tue, 07/31/2012 - 8:49am

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