GOAT?

So I watched this video and it got me to thinking. Manutea started paddling in 2000. This is insane.
1) in three years he won Hawaiki Nui, the most competitive V6 race on the planet

2) in 7 years he won Super Aito, the most competitive 1 man race on the planet

3) in his first ever attempt at the Molo Solo (last year) he finished 4th in a canoe he'd paddled three times. Also he did this while having never seriously trained with a rudder. this would be like going from Hawaii to Tahiti and finishing Super Aito in the top 4 having never paddled a V1?!

4) to this day he is still competitive in every race he enters. he is the most highly recruited steersman for any race in any ocean under any conditions.

for these reasons he would be my nomination for GOAT (Greatest Of All Time), or at a minimum the best paddler of this generation. anyone else you'd niminate?

EDIT: it was just pointed out to me by Luke that Manutea has raced the solo twice, finishing 7th and 4th. Also he is part of the only non corporately funded team in Tahiti to finish in the top 5 in Hawaiki Nui over the last decade.

Submitted by jc9_0 on Mon, 02/02/2015 - 10:38am



Um I think your forgetting Karel Jr., Bruddah was (and possbily still is if he trained) pretty frickin good. Oh and lets not forget about Kai Bartlet. That guy was the only guy who could beat Karel during that period. And Danny Ching for that matter only guy to be able to keep up with the tahitians in this past solo pretty good all around too, SUP, Surfing, etc. These guys are pretty much Top Notch all around Watermen!


#1 Mon, 02/02/2015 - 3:01pm


Aloha,

Thanks jc9_0 for your post!

No doubt that Manutea Owen is a legend of the sport, but it is really hard to say if he is the GOAT or the best from his generation. He is definitely a top 5 or 3 but when we look at the records of Tahitians like Lewis Laughlin, and more recently guys like Rete EBB or Steve Teihotaata it could be argued that they have better race records in V1 competing against Mr. Owen.

From a steersman perspective, David Tepava, peperu for Shell Va'a 8-time Molokai Hoe & 5-time Hawaiki Nui champion is considered by many in Tahiti as the the best in the world. Someone said once that "against facts there are no arguments"...

There's no question that paddling a V1 is technically much harder than an OC1. Therefore, for someone who is a top OC1 paddler such as Kai Bartlett, Karel Tresnak or Danny Ching and going to Tahiti to compete on a V1 race against the top Tahitians is a completely different story than the opposite.

I'd love to watch the paddling clinic from Manu. It'd be awesome to absorb a little bit of knowledge and skills..


#2 Mon, 02/02/2015 - 4:53pm


no doubt Kai and Jnr are or were right there. i posted this hoping for a reaction because undoubtedly everyone has a different criteria for what makes the best of all time... there are many legends in all walks of the sport.

part of my reaction, and maybe over reaction, stems from how quickly Manutea rose to the top the entire paddling world and how long he has stayed there across many disciplines of outrigger. i personally am not a big fan of SUP so i didn't really consider it towards the idea of a great canoe paddler. if you consider racing against tahitians as a measure of greatness, then that's all Manutea has done for 99% of his paddling life.

EDIT: part of the difficulty in comparing guys like the Fotis, Karel, Kai, Manutea, Steeve, or others is that there weren't many ways to compare crews or paddlers in the past. until recently no one has really crossed disciplines. OC1 champions rarely race V1 in Tahiti, and the same can be said for the V1 champions of Tahiti. Until recently they never came to Hawaii to race.


#3 Mon, 02/02/2015 - 5:40pm


I Agree with both sides on this. Keep in mind that for those that think it may be very easy to use an OC-1, When the Kaiwi Channel is gusting to 35 knots and 6- 8 ft + seas there aren't many people out there that can do it better than those guys. Karel at an early age was reinventing what was possible on an oc-1 and we've yet to see someone race V-1 on a day when it is that Windy. Not Saying it can't be done, I'm sure rete and Steve would absolutely give a clinic to the rest of us, but on the other hand Racing and OC-1 in those conditions I would have to say would favor the guys that are experienced in those conditions. (Not saying that the Tahtians wouldn't Crush). Just Looking forward to seeing A rough Channel with all the players. Keep in mind records aren't set in Hawaii when it's flat!


#4 Tue, 02/03/2015 - 5:07pm


I think Karel was 18 and had only been paddling for 8 years when he won his first solo in '99. Then he won 4 of the next 5 solos (someone can...and I'm sure will...correct me if I'm wrong). Bottom line, all the guys mentioned above are in a crazy amazing league that I am honored to occasionally share the ocean with them. I know for sure I was dead even with Danny Ching at a couple races (right before the race started).

J


#5 Tue, 02/03/2015 - 5:35pm


Lewis Laughlin is one of a Kind paddler too.
- Te aito and Super Aito many times.
- Molokai Hoe OC6 with Faa'a and with Ra'i.
- Molokai world surfski championship.
- Hawaiki Nui Va'a a few times too.
(-never won Molokai OC1 if that matters...)


#6 Wed, 02/04/2015 - 1:56pm


hard to say. karel definitely high on the list. i think if he trains seriously today he would be hard beat in the surf.

greatest right now "grn," if i may, -- rete. i dont think anyone can muster a reasonable argument against him.

greatest of all time "goat" -- it pains me to agree with hiro c, but certainly lewis laughlin belongs in the discussion. also let's not forget about Mark Rigg and Tommy Conner.

both rigg and conner took up the sport at later age. unlike karel and the rest of the young bucks now days, rigg and conner didnt start one-maning in their teens. had they done so, and had today's technology and design, i have no doubt they would dominate. this leads me to wonder what could have been if aaron napoleon starting one-maning in his teens...


#7 Wed, 02/04/2015 - 3:16pm


Hiro think you're on to something. Lewis has also been an ultra compettitve surfski paddler as well. Ryan Dolan just sent me these results from 2005 that kind illustrate your point on Lewis. It also looks like Manutea finished in 4:08 in his first try at racing an OC1? minus all the skis he might be somewhere around 10th? not bad for a first try.

15 MAY 2005

********** OVERALL RESULTS ***********

PLACE NO. TEAM CLASS TIME

===
1 1 OSCAR CHALUPSKY MALE(SS)-MASTER(40-49) 3:28:38
2 228 NATHAN BAGGALEY MALE(SS)-OPEN 3:30:52
3 242 DEAN GARDINER MALE(SS)-MASTER(40-49) 3:31:45
4 234 HERMAN CHALUPSKY MALE(SS)-MASTER(40-49) 3:33:25
5 238 MARTIN KENNY MALE(SS)-OPEN 3:33:41
6 207 DEAN MERCER MALE(SS)-OPEN 3:34:25
7 243 DARYL BARTHO MALE(SS)-OPEN 3:34:39
8 197 LEWIS LAUGHLIN MALE(SS)-OPEN 3:38:16
9 229 DAVID KISSANE MALE(SS)-OPEN 3:41:14
10 235 GREG BARTON MALE(SS)-MASTER(40-49) 3:45:51
11 17 STUART GAESSNER MALE(SS)-MASTER(40-49) 3:47:12
12 224 MARK SANDVOLD MALE(SS)-OPEN 3:48:17
13 2 KAI BARTLETT MALE(OC)-OPEN 3:52:37
14 232 MARK DANIELS MALE(SS)-OPEN 3:52:45
15 189 MIKE JUDD MALE(OC)-OPEN 3:57:45
16 215 MANNY KULUKULUALANI MALE(OC)-OPEN 3:59:13
17 231 ROD TAYLOR MALE(SS)-SR.MASTER(50-59) 4:00:33
18 13 KEALII PAIAINA MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:01:30
19 824 DANNY CHING MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:01:47
20 230 KEN COLLINS MALE(SS)-OPEN 4:01:52
21 248 PAUL WILFORD MALE(SS)-OPEN 4:01:59
22 3 THIBERT LUISAA MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:03:24
23 222 TAKU ARAKI MALE(SS)-OPEN 4:03:27
24 21 PATRICK DOLAN MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:03:56
25 199 TEPA LEOPOLD MALE(SS)-OPEN 4:05:15
26 830 DORIAN WOLTER MALE(SS)-OPEN 4:06:01
27 334 AARON CREPS MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:06:19
28 200 BILL BARFF MALE(SS)-MASTER(40-49) 4:07:18
29 239 JASMIN COHEN FEMALE(SS)-OPEN 4:08:02
30 244 PATRICK HEMMENS MALE(SS)-MASTER(40-49) 4:08:25
31 649 MANUTEA OWEN MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:08:32
32 201 JEAN-LUC EYCHENNE MALE(SS)-MASTER(40-49) 4:09:24
33 202 DANNY SHEARD MALE(OC)-MASTER(40-49) 4:10:12
34 212 DARREN MERCER MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:10:29
35 359 TRAVIS GRANT MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:11:00
36 541 MAEL CAREY MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:11:29
37 825 JOHN HOOGSTEDEN MALE(SS)-MASTER(40-49) 4:13:57
38 917 GUY PERE MALE(SS)-OPEN 4:15:30
39 828 HAYDN HOLMES MALE(SS)-OPEN 4:15:54
40 205 JEFF LE MARSENY MALE(OC)-MASTER(40-49) 4:16:27
41 648 MAITAI DANIELSON MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:16:44
42 922 NATHAN HENDRICKS MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:16:46
43 882 MIKE SILVA MALE(OC)-OPEN 4:18:07


#8 Wed, 02/04/2015 - 7:26pm


All Great Paddlers. Have to Give Maui a mention. Many records here in NZ. Almost won Super Aito and you all know his records in Hawaii. Legend in many kiwis eyes.


#9 Wed, 02/04/2015 - 11:42pm


I think that there has to be some criteria for choosing the one greatest paddler of all time. If you're looking strictly at the fastest of all time, then Steeve or Rete is, without a doubt, the GOAT. But, I think that the greatest paddler of all time has to be more than just the fastest at a given time.

You could relatively objectively evaluate top paddlers on the following criteria and come up with an official GOAT:

Race Results:
Speed:
Longevity (length of time at the top):
Cross discipline (OC-1, V-1, OC-6):
Diversity of conditions (flat, surf):
Impact on the sport:

While all the names mentioned above would definitely fill out the top ten (with the addition of Jim and John Foti and Walter Guild for impact, longevity, and cross discipline) I agree that ultimately Lewis would end up with the highest score across the board (at least based on the above criteria).


#10 Thu, 02/05/2015 - 10:56am


totally forgot about Maui. for sure across disciplines and time at the top is a factor.

i personally put more value on excelling in all disciplines of paddling. OC1, V1, and V6 in both Hawai‘i and Tahiti. don't think anyone has done that better than Lewis and the current generation of Tahitians. perhaps due to lack of sponsorship the current generation of Hawaiian paddlers has never really raced V1 in Tahiti or anywhere else in the world for that matter. i'm sure if the money was there there'd be a ton of Hawaiians that would love to go race the Aito events in Tahiti. would be great to see an apples to apples comparison.


#11 Thu, 02/05/2015 - 11:23am


I dont think anyone could muster up a good enough argument against Lewis and his accomplishments in the sport of outrigger. Sure he may not have won the (OC-1) Molokai Solo, simply because he didnt try during his peak? Im not sure about when he first tried the Solo, but I heard he dropped out sitting 3rd or so at the age of 40+?...maybe 2010?or 2011?

I know SS isnt supposed to be weighed out in this thread as GOAT of outrigger, but If you can Win a Molokai SS in surf against the worlds best...(which I believe is much much more competitive than our OC-1 community) then I believe he could have beaten anyone on a OC-1 at the time.

Again Im not sure when his prime would have been, versus Karel Jr.'s Reign over the Kaiwi.

So there for I nominate Lewis Laughlin as the Greatest Paddler of All Time

P.S. Greatest at the Moment I feel Rete takes the Cake, Unless there was SURF and it was an OC-1 Race then I nominate In no particular order (Manny,Will, Kai Chong, Kai B,Jimmy,Danny)


#12 Fri, 02/06/2015 - 6:00am


it pains me to agree with hiro c

I love you too babe !


#13 Thu, 02/05/2015 - 9:46pm


However...I do believe that Manutea Owen is the Greatest Steersman of our time, possibly all time. Lets not forget Lewis Has also taken his Club Rai to become a Hawaiki Nui Chamion, with him as peperu.


#14 Fri, 02/06/2015 - 6:07am


Any discussion about Greatest Paddlers would be incomplete without Jamie Mitchell.

Sure, he's not an outrigger guy-- but he did win TEN consecutive Molokai 2 Oahu paddleboard championships. Not only that, but he's one of a handful redefining big wave surfing, paddling into surf previously considered impossible.

Legend.


#15 Fri, 02/06/2015 - 12:00pm


Well then why don't we just nominate Kelly Slater while were at it…This thread is about the greatest outrigger paddler of all time. not paddle boarder, or surfer, or golfer or Douch Bag. If It was then I would have a slightly different line up of greatest at the moment nominations ;)

you could nominate Mr. Jamie in another GOAT competition, as he is deserving of a lot of other awards, just not in an outrigger forum.


#16 Fri, 02/06/2015 - 11:34pm


Jaime Mitchell?...I must on the wrong site. I was looking for OCpaddler.com


#17 Fri, 02/06/2015 - 8:30pm


Tom Brady should be top of the list, apparently he's been to Hawaii .


#18 Fri, 02/06/2015 - 8:33pm


i nominate Obama, he bodysurfs.

in all seriousness, Lewis seems pretty untouchable.


#19 Fri, 02/06/2015 - 11:54pm


Good stuff guys. Funny Kevlon.

Here is my picks:
Lewis Laughlin: All time (11 Aitos in a row, etc.)
Rate Ebb: V1 (3 Super Aitos)
Karel Jr: OC1 (8 Molokai Solos)

All there are bad ass Steersman.

Jaime Mitchell: Paddle boarding
Kelly Slater: Surfing
Healthyearth: Yapping


#20 Thu, 02/12/2015 - 3:18pm


if were mentioning accomplishments, wouldn't Lauren be added to the list as well. She's won quite a bit. surfski, oc1, oc6 ...


#21 Sun, 02/22/2015 - 9:59pm


@scaryslow
Jamie Mitchell on the Hiko before the Gold Coast Cup


#22 Mon, 03/02/2015 - 10:46am


dlee you right on the kinipopo!! No other paddler, male or female, can top her performance, especially when it comes to the Molokai races, for how many times has anyone ever raced the Molokai three (3) times in a row within two weeks between races? Throw in the Na Wahine in the Fall and that makes it four (4) M2O crossings in a year. Add the M2M for a grand total of five (5) channel crossings in a year. Too much! She's the besses of the besses.


#23 Tue, 03/03/2015 - 4:36am


@Openocean
Who did Jamie Mitchell beat?

I can paddle a paddle board, but by no stretch am I great.


#24 Tue, 03/03/2015 - 9:28am


Koacanoe, in my opinion Lauren is absolutely the greatest female paddler of all time. How ever as a complete paddler she cant compete... i.e
- Karel jr. best OC-1 paddler of all time, and best Hawaii Steersman of "our time".
- Lewis Lauglin best winning record on V-1 of all time, and arguably one of the best steersman in Tahiti
- Rete Best V-1 currently, and could have easily won the Solo OC-1...oh and one of the best steersman of all time.

...you should get the point. If not then just vote for Jamie Mitchell

Remember thatin Tahiti the Hawaiki Nui has 3 channel crossings in 3 days with out any changes...So I suppose they would probably make up more paddling time than anyone else in a month.

Nothing can be taken away from Lauren's achievements, as she is untouchable in her wahine Solo records at the moment.


#25 Thu, 03/05/2015 - 2:08pm


kauaisurf85: The only paddler that probably comes close to Lauren is Lewis because he has won the Molokai Solo on a surfski. However, Lauren has won the Molokai Solo on both surfski and OC-1 several times. Now, if she were to win the Molokai Solo on a prone paddleboard, like Jamie, that would shut everyone down. If they got the horses up front, any steersman would look good.


#26 Wed, 03/04/2015 - 1:13pm


I Love this.

....What was her Record breaking time?

....Sexes aside. A record is a record.

Moving on with nominations.


#27 Thu, 03/05/2015 - 2:10pm


current listings at NZ ultimate waterman competition

1, Kai Lenny (HAW)*, 3120

2, Danny Ching (USA)*, 3083

3, Manoa Drollet (TAH)*, 3083

4, Mark Visser (AUS)*, 2803

5, Georges Cronsteadt (TAH)*, 2723

6, Kala Alexander (HAW)*, 2518

7, Daniel Kereopa (NZL), 2253

8, Connor Baxter (HAW), 1955

*Denotes double whammy division completed


#28 Wed, 03/18/2015 - 5:27am


i once pulled a "double whammy" myself, but it didn't involve one of those little stars...


#29 Wed, 03/18/2015 - 2:01pm


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