GPS/Speedmate

How useful is a GPS - without HR monitor - for outrigger training ? How does it compare to a Speedmate ? How does a simple stop watch compare to either of these ?

Submitted by eckhart on Wed, 11/02/2005 - 9:18pm



in my opinion... VERY USEFUL in flat water, especially if you're training alone. If you gotta choose between a HR monitor and a GPS, i'd go with the HR monitor any day. GPS you can see how your stroke is affecting your speed, and you can work hard to keep your speed above a certain point. With a heart rate monitor you can make sure that you're not pushing too hard, and, even better, make sure you're pushing hard enough, which is probably more useful. But both are hard to use in the surf.


#1 Wed, 11/02/2005 - 9:58pm


I agree with Luke - very useful. Both the GPS and HR monitor have their appropriate uses in training.
Here in Seattle where it's tough to get a partner to come out with you when it's 45 degrees and raining, the GPS is a good way to keep your intensity up. It lets you know when your slacking - keeping your average speed up keeps you going hard.
The HR monitor works in the same way, but opposite. It keeps your output steady for those long runs. Helps when your competetive nature is starting to get the best of you.
Both of 'em help you stay in your target zones to get the most out of your workouts.
Sorry, never used a Speedmate, so can't comment. Stopwatch is a good simple alternative for known distance runs, or if you do the same route pretty regularly. You just need to do the math in your head and on the run if you want current speed and pace.


#2 Thu, 11/03/2005 - 10:23am


I find both very useful The GPS rocks. Instantaneous feedback on how what you are doing affects your speed. A must these days. It also helps me find good water because if I am not running at the speed I normally run then I know it might be the water.

HR monitors are good too. Check out the Garmin Forerunner with both GPS and HR monitor. Sweet deal.


#3 Thu, 11/03/2005 - 10:31am


I use GPS (Forerunner 201) and Hr monitor (Polar S625X) every race and training day. I then log it all into "Sportracks", which in my opinion is the best logging software available and its free. Here are some screenshots from some of my runs and links to the software.

Two Samples of my training runs -
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/2208/molokai20059ug.jpg
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/7949/rambosintervals4qc.jpg
http://home.ripway.com/2005-10/480657/Screen01.JPG
http://home.ripway.com/2005-10/480657/Screen06.JPG

Mooloolaba Masters 2005 Molokai Race
http://home.ripway.com/2005-10/480657/Screen26.JPG
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/289/molokaispeedchart9ha.jpg

Software Link http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks/

Hope this helps

Cheers Rambo


#4 Thu, 11/03/2005 - 1:58pm


Eckhart,
GPS is great and gives you a lot of stuff that Speedmate can't, but it gives you speed and course over ground, not speed through the water. It does not account for tides or other currents. The Speedmate will give you your actual speed through the water and give it to you in real time. GPS will not account for the fact that the medium you are paddling through is fluid. As a training tool to compare your speed one day to the next, and one location to the next, the Speedmate will give you the most accurate data as it is not affected by the currents.


#5 Fri, 11/04/2005 - 3:02pm


i strongly suggest a GPS over a speedmate. With a speedmate you have to put the little plastic thing for the impeller on your hull-- and you dont want to add anything to your hull. And--- yeah, the speedmate will give you your speed through the water, but does that matter a whole lot? The wind affects your speed more than the current anyway, so even with a speedmate you won't have any better of an accurate picture comparing day by day. Plus, as poopoo said, a gps is useful cause if you're pounding and only going 4 or 5 mph, then you should look around for some better water. With a speedmate, you'll be pounding into a current and it'll read like 7.5 mph. And if you want a clearer picture of your output, then you shouldn't be going off your speed anyway, but off of your heartrate. Hanshead, i didn't mean to attack the speedmate, i have never used one, so maybe they are great. Hmm... maybe should buy a speedmate, a GPS, and a heartrate monitor. Then if there is a huge difference in speeds between the two, you know you've hit a current, either with or against. haha-- could have a little dashboard going.


#6 Fri, 11/04/2005 - 6:30pm


Yeah luke, I was thinking of putting a tachometer along with my hr monitor on my boat!!!! hahahahaha!!!


#7 Fri, 11/04/2005 - 6:56pm


Thank you for all your comments.
As far as I understand so far they both seem to have their pro and cons.

With the GPS two things are not clear to me: how fast does it display change in speed ? Meaning when I change my stroke and it takes the GPS seconds to register, then I would see this displayed too late. Is it able to show the slowing down of the boat during release ?
Secondly, if the reception of the signal drops intermittently, all the averaged data would become useless, wouldn't they ? How often does that happen ?

With the speedmate the handling seems more complicated, even though I would expect it to give instant feedback at all times of speed over water. How often does the propeller fall off etc ?

What irritates me here is the speed over water. Assume you paddle against the wind, against a current, as you pointed out, your readings will not help you very much, or do they ?

Now my key question: speed over water or speed over distance, what is more useful for training purposes ? Which of the two will more likely help me improve my stroke to stroke technique ?

Is any of the two better on the flats versus on the waves ?

The heart rate monitoring is so popular everywhere; why is that ? I figure if you don't drink/eat enough, your heart rate will change too, for example. And I figure we all want to paddle " 85 % " at all times and end up in a little competition with our friends as we don't want to be behind. In other words, we tend to go to the limit anyway. So, how does it really help to see that in numbers too ?

Thank you for your comments.


#8 Fri, 11/04/2005 - 7:11pm


Eckhart,

The GPS is very useful for maximising your boat speed. What I have done in the past is to paddle in flat still water ( river or lake ) and play around with your stroke technique till you get max boat speed. Try pushing with your legs and twisting with the core strength in your body. You will find like i did, what parts of the stroke technique produce the greatest return in boat speed.

The GPS gives you feedback on the canoes performance.
The heart rate monitor gives you feedback on your bodys performance.

The data you collect from both is only useful if you analyse it and put it to good use in training or in race strategy.

Look at the example http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/7949/rambosintervals4qc.jpg

Read the explaination at the top of the charts. I don't start races like that any more for obvious reasons.

Paddling is a simple enjoyable past time. Enjoy it.
Competitive racing is adictive and if you want to exceed, use all the tools at your disposal. Including GPS and HR Monitors.

Cheers Rambo


#9 Fri, 11/04/2005 - 8:06pm


Speedmate/GPS... Both have advantages and disadvantages. I like the speedmate because I have one. I would also like a GPS... I have never had a problem with the impeller falling off. Also at the speeds outriggers go, I don't think the extra drag from a little impeller is going to affect the boat speed that much (but I could be completely wrong...). I have had water damage to my speedmate before, but the company replaced it for me with no hassles. I think any tool you use will be beneficial, if for no other reason than to give you something to compare your times and speeds to. To me, it's the same as having a computer on your bike. If you want to compare to cycling, the speedmate is going to be just like the bike computer. It won't account for winds, like Luke said, but the bike computer does not either (or for hills...). Anyway, whatever you get, will be better than nothing, even just using a stopwatch. If you want to try out my speedmate, let me know (this is Eric from your Novice B crew). Better yet, if you want someone to go paddle with, let me know.
Aloha,
Eric


#10 Sat, 11/05/2005 - 12:06pm


Hi Rambo

you are absolutely right, it is a pleasant past time and we all seem to be addicted to it. To excell probably means something slightly different to everybody. I just love the feeling of the boat when it is moving well over the water.
So the most important part at this point is to improve technique as a foundation and all here confirm that the GPS/Speedmate are useful for that.
You obviously need strength too to enjoy paddling.
The chapter following on day will be how to 'read the water', followed by 'how to compete'.
Your charts are really very interesting. In your warm up phase you have the same speed as in your first 100 % 5 min and better than during your 10 min session. Also, in your warm down you match the speed of your later 5 mins but your heart rate is completely relaxed. Is that stroke rate related ?

Hi Eric

Good to hear from you, sure I'd love to paddle with you - we are out there quite a bit (Pinki's, Kailua Bay, Flat Island); I will send an email to you. Aloha Eckhart


#11 Sat, 11/05/2005 - 1:08pm


Good observations Eckhart, the warm ups and warm downs are in the river on the way to and from the enterance to the ccean. The first 2 efforts are into the swell and wind. The last efforts are with the runners as you can see the spurts of speed.
Here is the run path over a google earth map. (can't do this with a speedmate)
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/1958/screen010ya.jpg

Cheers Rambo


#12 Sat, 11/05/2005 - 9:59pm


Uh oh! SPAM attack! Kick this loser out Keizo. Cheers.


#13 Thu, 08/21/2014 - 9:20pm


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