OC Paddle Bend Degree Question

If you think about the action of the paddle creating the opposite effect on the boat (i.e., if the paddle is pressing down and back, the boat will move up and forward), the 12 degree bend might enable an effective stroke that's slightly longer than what you could get with a 10 degree bend. You could pull back a little bit further before the face of the blade passes the perpendicular-with-the-water point and starts sucking the boat down.

Maybe, dunno, not a physics major, just guessing...

#1 Fri, 05/26/2006 - 11:16am

ZRE originally targeted its paddles for marathon canoeing hence, this explains the design of their paddles. The technique of marathon canoe emphasizes the back half push, hence, the 12 degree angle of the paddle allows for a more efficient and powerful marathon canoe stroke.

Even today, many former marathon present oc paddlers still use marathon canoe paddles since the difference in paddles is obscure to beginner oc paddlers.

Hope this makes sense.... it's been a long day.

#3 Fri, 05/26/2006 - 4:09pm

The bend you choose also depends on the type of paddling you do.

Sprint rudderless paddlers will often choose little (4 deg) to no bend if they do a lot of steering strokes,

Paddlers who emphasize a quick entry and catch over a long strokes may also choose less of a bend,

Paddlers in very flat water (i.e. >10 cm waves, lakes, sheltered lagoons, etc.) may also choose less of a bend,

The style of the stroke tought at your club or used on your team,

Some will suggest average paddling speed for the paddler/water conditions are also a factor.

Alan Carlsson
http://eascoaching.blogspot.com/

#5 Sat, 05/27/2006 - 6:48am

First of all ZRE will make any degree bend someone wants. The 12 degree bend is just the "normal" bend he uses without having to do additonal hand reworking of the angle.
I have tried many shaps of blades and lengths of paddles and shafts.

Funny thing is that most paddles work very well depending on the stroke being used for that particular paddle. The key for any paddle is the angle of the entry and exit points while maintaining the most efficient strength.
Smooth entry and exit gives you a clue that your arm positions are probably where they need to be for that particular paddle. If you feel that you can put the available power you have during the entire stroke thatn go with that style of stroke first.
I don't agree with the idea that you want to create a situation where the boat is being lifted by the paddler pull.
Dynamics of using power will make the boat rise due to the displacement hull but it should not be a diliberate function from the angle of the blade entering or exiting the water. The down side of rising the boat is that it has to come back down so if the power phase is too short bobing will occur.
Physics teaches us that power in one direction (going forword) is a straight line correlation from the effort being applied going straight back. The vectors of a paddle going down with an angle will make the boat go forward (as compared with a straight blade being put straight down).
Taking advantage of the body while the paddle is being put into the water may be helpful in giving added power but not when it used to lift the boat. (lifting occurs when you place the paddle flat on the surface and push down) All this does is bounce the boat. We have all seen the six man outriggers bouncing as the stroker in the boat is using his body incorrectly trying to get power
I have seen many great paddlers and many have totally different stroke techniques. Most of them all have smooth power delivery througout the entire stroke.
Paddling is a constant learning curve and what works well for you today may not be the one that works well for you next year or the year after that. Your body will be developing strengths that might need to be utilized differntly so keep that in mind.
Keep trying to see if something works better for your particular body. Don't be locked into trying to emulate any one particuar paddler style unless you are paddling with a team. Then you need to create the same power phases so your team can be the most effective when that occurs.
JE

#7 Sun, 06/04/2006 - 8:04am

I would guess the bend helps with the reach.as the reach can be a great tool for speed.

#9 Mon, 03/10/2008 - 8:41pm

The forvard bent canoe paddles are something of a joke as the purpose of the paddle in not to lift the boat but to propel it forvard. Top marathon blades normaly have even a bit of curve back on the blade so that the blade starts the entry more vertical and as we see the outriger paddling stoke is not the longest but rather has higher frequency than other forms of canoe paddling which in principle.
Most power is efficienty transfered when blade is in vertical and near vertical position so forvard midd to midd stroke and not at the back part of the stroke.
Also at the rear part of the stroke there is less of the bodys muscle being utilized which again makes it inefficient.

I see the froward bent paddle as a blind evolutionary branch of canoe paddle developement , almost like palm grip that is still widely used in US but is not comparable to a T grip but is still being used as people are used to seing paddles made in that way.

#11 Tue, 03/11/2008 - 11:27am

No because that is much to much work ,we want to have a steady stroke which causes as little rocking and any other motion other that forvard ,boats are designed for efficiency and the pumping and rocking motions we try to awoid by making asymetrical canoes which dammpen the frequency of both rocking and pumping .

Most efficent boat hulls have wider waterlines at the back than at the front and center of gravity forward of the mid point. Also we always battle the sinkage of the rear because of bow wave which causes the bow to rise a bit when paddling.

#13 Tue, 03/11/2008 - 12:35pm

A friend of mine is building a proa in the back of my workshop and it has 2 distinct features one is asymetric hull for countering the sideways force of the sails and a slight bend to compensate for the ama .This proas actualy sail without rudder or paddle steering just with sail trim.
But i would think it would be dificoult to do on the oc-1 for the simple reason that the speed range in which the boat is moving i quite great ,if you optimize it for paddling speeds it will probybly start turning the boat to much when surfing ,but if you optimise it for surfing it will not do enough when paddling.
But as you have a rudder you can always adjust it to compensate for it.also as jou see the amas are also geting lighter and less draggy..

#15 Wed, 03/12/2008 - 10:17am

The proa is to different in concept and also in the way it sails that it will newer be a mainstream type design ,but if you look at the sailing speed records trying to break 50 knots many designs are proas by cocept but so purpose designed that they look wierd

#17 Wed, 03/12/2008 - 1:28pm

a solar powered Nai'a... John Martin would be.... well...intrigued.

#19 Wed, 03/12/2008 - 7:32pm

Canoemaker, did you say the forward bend is unnecessary? Top marathoners don't use them? Why does ZRE make and sell so many of them? Is this all because of mere fashion? Please explain.

#21 Thu, 03/13/2008 - 4:59am

It is mostly fashion ,which i can explain best by anecdotes .

In whitewater canoeing we had a superb paddler by the name of john lugbill who paddled dinstinctly and while paddling he had a personal kink that he was shaking the head to folow each paddle stroke and after he became a world champion you could see dosens of paddlers shaking their heads like him thinking that that must a way to go ,but in reality that was bull and was only slowing every one down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lugbill

Richard Fox geatest paddler ever: 5xWorld Champion; 1xWorld Bronze medallist; 5xWorld team Champion; Olympian; 8xNational Champion . Was the first one to use the double toque paddles(duble bent ) and every one juped at thos paddles and they didnt realy work but as the guy paddling them first was so good everyone wanted them but they were actualy even slover than before(but it took almost 15 years for them to disaper from the scene )

And a list of such funny experiments is almost newer ending.

Remember a-cat worlds a guy shows up with only one dagger board instead of 2 and has to switch the dagger board from one side to another just to be able to sail and amazingly he finishes top 3 but the stupid thin is that for the next race many sailors showed up with a single daggerbard thinking hov beneficial it is to save weight on leaving one on the shore.

It is also quite important if the sport is very competitive(people training twice a day troughout the year) or not, in highly competitive sports where there is close competition such dead ends finish their life quickly.
So you dont se funy experiments in the competition running shoes ,skis,bikes evolution makes all more or less equal.

#23 Thu, 03/13/2008 - 8:32am

So...I think you'll like the pic I've attached. The middle paddle looks like a carved double bend paddle. The paddles are old antique Maori paddles. So the double bend/ has been around a while.....I wonder if the Maori are getting any royalties from the Kialoa's wacky shaft paddle?

Can you imagine trying to carve that!!!

#25 Thu, 03/13/2008 - 6:17pm