hello,
don't we have any considerations in this forum? (tahitians community)
It has been 30 years now (1976), that tahitians did this performance:
1-oropaa
2-tautira
3-mataiea
so, here in tahiti it's crazy, and we are waiting for all hawaiian crews for hawaiki nui 2006.
And I wouild like to know if the weather was more machine washing, would you be able to beat shell va'a?
I don't think so, coz with 16 minutes before the second crew, I think shell was out of reach that sunday.
mahalo, or mauruuru.
Submitted by jfaumeran on Tue, 10/10/2006 - 6:34pm
i know the women will be brining it this year!
#1 Tue, 10/10/2006 - 8:28pm
I know that Princessbullygirl will be holding it down =)
#2 Thu, 10/19/2006 - 3:04pm
Ia Orana nos Tahitiens,
Moi je dit félicitations aux rameurs Tahitiens de Shell, Hiti Toa et Raro Matai!
Une effort superbe en va’a et pas seulement les palmarès 1e-3e, mais le record de course dans les conditions que les Hawai’iens trouve lent!
Je dirais que les meilleurs rameurs ont gagnés pas seulement les meilleurs à faire du surfïŠ
Mauruuru
Alan
#3 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 9:31am
congrats to the men of shell vaa the winning crew of the molokai hoe. setting a new record for everyone to chase was pretty awesome in those conditions, but then again those were your conditions. This thread reminds me of a little brother who gets his but kicked all the time when we play games and then wins one every once in while for what ever reason and he wants to brag about it for weeks. consistancy builds legacy.
oh yeah, and i'm sure hawaii will send a crew to hawaiki nui capable of beating shell va'a every year just as soon as our government decides to pony up the money for all thier expenses and then some.
p.s. lets wash it out in the surf
#4 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 10:56am
"This thread reminds me of a little brother who gets his but kicked all the time when we play games and then wins one every once in while for what ever reason and he wants to brag about it for weeks."
I'm confused. So who's the big brother and who's the little brother?
#5 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 11:59am
it just seemed to me that jfaumeran was looking for some recognition for finishing 123 after how many years? and shell vaa winning. no knocks it was an outsanding perormance. but lets not bust out the best team ever till you get some consistancy in the molokai hoe.
#6 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 12:22pm
With the fastest time ever across the channel plus a huge margin of victory, a feat they also accomplished in one of the big Tahitian races, Why wouldn't you think they were the best ever ?
#7 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 1:02pm
anyone who trains and races can't help but be impressed by what the tahitians did. it was awesome. it doesn't take anything away from the hawaiian crews who always set a high standard... they won. big. they deserve props.... congrats
#8 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 1:13pm
Couple of things, some which I have raised before here.
First, what Shell did was incredible, they cleaned up in all the domestic races in Tahiti, and then went over to Hawaii and kicked ass over there (convincingly), and set a new record.
It is extremely unfair for some of you to diminish what they achieved because it was flat(ter) conditions than normal. Its has not been the first time the Tahitians set a race record at Molokai - Fa'a Men's team set a course record as well. If you are a champion team you will win no matter what the conditions are. Also, they have a couple of world champions in their canoe, including Karyl Maoni, and Bruno Tauhiro. Maoni kicked ass at the recent World Sprints in New Zealand - but, oh yeah thats right, you Hawaiians don't really do sprints either do you? So what does that leave?
Yeah, downhill surf runs... and Molokai. A bit limited don't you think? Or is that what canoeing is all about to you guys?
Second, when has a Hawaiian team ever won the Havaiki Nui?? The closest they ever came was a first place on one of the legs (Bora Bora, I think). So let's see a Hawaiian team actually go to somebody else's backyard, paddle canoes which are foreign to them, paddle without changes, and see how well they do.
There has never been a Hawaiian team who has cleaned up everything. The closest team I can think of in recent memory was Team NZ/Hawaii, who were as complete a team as any, being strong upwind and in the surf - but they weren't a solely Hawaiian Team as such.
Another thing, the only people who call Molokai the 'world champioship' of distance races are the Hawaiians themselves. I prefer to think of it more as a 'Triple Crown', which includes Molokai, Hammo, and Hawaiki Nui. Any team which wins all three, or even two of the three could be considered World Champions.
The one thing I will concede however is that Shell Vaa is a professional outfit, they receive corporate sponsorhip and support to paddle full time. And that is the difference. Who knows how good any of us could be if we were paid to paddle full time as well? I was actually as impressed with the other two placegetters at Molokai, who were scratch teams made up of part time paddlers who came over from Tahiti and still finished 2nd and 3rd.
My last comment is the general lack of support for canoeing in Hawaii. There appears to be very little corporate sponsorship or promotion of canoeing in Hawaii at all. I know there are strong feeling about the commercialisation of canoeing in Hawaii, but lets face it - everywhere else where canoeing is strong there is good sponsorship, prize money, promotions etc. This is especially true in Tahiti, where champion paddlers are revered. They also have good TV coverage of canoeing every Sunday there - I noticed even spearfishing in Hawaii gets more TV time than paddling! Its no surprise given the popularity, support and superb organisation of the sport in Tahiti, that the paddlers are as good as they are.
So, I think it is a credit to those Hawaiian teams who have succeeded despite these odds, but if paddling is to go to the next level in Hawaii, then things need to change, and paddling (at the elite level) needs to get much more support generally. Otherwise, I fear canoeing in Hawaii is going to get left behind, at the top level at least.
So, I am having a gentle dig at you guys who are sucking sour grapes at the moment, but in the end, these type of results can only push canoeing to greater levels, which is a good thing, I think.
Bring on the flames!!!
#9 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 3:20pm
for those of you who dont know, here's the definition of felicitation:
[n 1: (usually plural) an expression of pleasure at the success or good fortune of another; "I sent them my sincere congratulations on their marriage" [syn: congratulation] 2: the act of acknowledging that someone has an occasion for celebration [syn: congratulation]]
it is not to be confused with fellations
#10 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 4:55pm
Hi guys,
the honululu advertiser says Shell va'a beat the previous record by approx 4mns 27s in calm conditions.
I don't know the ocean conditions when Lanikai beat the last record in year 2000 (sure though it was rough), but I am amazed (but not surprised cause I know they trained hard for this race) by Tahiti's performance considering the "flat water conditions".
This is my point of view : the tahitians just proved that they are faster than the hawaiians (by more than 4mns = 0,6 miles approx that would be distance that separates Shell and Lanikai if we were to compare both time records).
I guess in general, Hawaiians may know how to surf better (that's what people say but Shells steerman David TEPAVA has very good skill and good experience; too bad he didn't get a chance to express himself in rougher conditions) but it doesn't mean that they go faster.
In a canoe race, the deal is to get 1st place, and be the fastest, this is what happened!
Another thing :the elapsed time between Shell and Lanikai is 15mns = 2.25 miles ? WOW !!!
{This was a crushing} said Jim FOTY {AND THE TAHITIANS ARE BACK}.
For sure the MOLOKAI HOE RACE is one the greatest if not the greatest race on earth (or should I say : on water)for it's exceptional ocean conditions. This is why paddlers through out the world come to race in Hawaii. Many tahitians come often too, to race with their far away cousins.
Tahiti has an exceptional 3 day race HAWAIIKI NUI, coming up 01st of november. Maybe to late for this one but do your max to try this fabulous race. You won't regret it.
Wouldn't say good fun but good hinano beer!
mauururu roa
#11 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 5:13pm
Hahahahaha...everybodys all salty like someone stole something. For the people who sound like they're about to start an argument...that's funny. Keep it going though, cause I like to read the drama =)
#12 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 5:20pm
Hey! I've been on a crew that has WON! But I'm a chick, so does that still count?!!?!? Pshhhh, C'mon!!!!!!
#13 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 7:54pm
C'mon now...women aren't REAL paddlers!! Hahahahahhahahaha...just kidding B.T.
#14 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 7:56pm
hahahaha! =) you so funnny!! i'll let you get away with that one, cause you know i'd jab you soooo hard!
#15 Wed, 10/11/2006 - 7:57pm
Here are my thoughts on the Tahitians...
When I started paddling in 1980 I used a straight shaft, pizza-pie cutter round shaped blade that was a "Hawaiian" style blade. After the Tahitians came over here and kicked butt in the1976 Moloka'i Hoe they changed paddling FOREVER. In 1981 I remember creating my own, new style, double-bend, "Tahitian-hybrid" paddle at my canoe club (it now hangs in my living room.) All the kids were making new blades because we couldn't find the blades to buy and our coaches knew that this new, smaller faced blade with a bend in the shaft was the wave of the future. Instead of the full-body slow Hawaiian stroke that we were paddling we were able to switch to faster stoke and a more erect body of the Tahitian stroke. That is a LEGACY!
The Tahitian should be looked at as "The older brother" if anything else...especially if you look at the histroy of the Pacific Islanders in general. Competition is really great for our sport and the Tahitians push all paddlers to strive for excellence (Hawaiians, Australians, Japanese, ect).
I think that NOTHING should be taken away from their performance last weekend. They were strong for every stroke of the race, no mistakes, clean race. Congrats to them. They deserve the recognition from ALL in the paddling community for what they have done this year and what they have done in the past.
Mikala
#16 Thu, 10/12/2006 - 7:30am
Congratulations to the Tahitians! They skooled everybody. I heard they paddle 2 hours to another island, practice...then paddle back....everyday. Who can beat that?
Coconut- good points about corporate sponsorships. Who wouldn't haul a$$ down that channel, ha! But yeah, on the world platform, you gotta give props to the teams who can master races all over the world, not just Hawaii. The thing about being sponsored by corporations -they can afford to jet these guys all over the world along with all the boats. What a life eh? Many other teams have to come out of pocket to cover these expenses and take time off from work. Bottom line though, no excuses or complaining. The best team won.
#17 Thu, 10/12/2006 - 9:35am
Tim H. Jones
An amazing display of paddling, no matter who made it!! As they say in Tahitian "ma'au" if you think it's about anything other than the paddlers. Sonny Bradley canoe, and Hawaiian water, if I remember.... I also agree with a later response that says the world champioships are about arguably three races now, not just one. Remember, the three Tahitian boats left everyone behind after the first hour of a five hour race. Aita pea pea! Nana...
#18 Thu, 10/12/2006 - 9:33am
congrats to the tahitians
but we all need to realize something
like said in past comments if the goverment supported us and we had the ammount of resources they put in to paddling i dont thnk they would even come close to what they did
iam also pretty sure that if a strong team like lanikai was training year round like the tahitians they would be shattering records in the flat and winning even more
#19 Sat, 10/14/2006 - 9:21pm
It is important to remember that cash alone solves nothing.
For a country or region to have a successful international program there are so many other things needed. For example;
[list][]It must have media exposure,
[]It must have a grassroots presence,
[]It must have community support,
[]It must have school support,
[]It must have equipment suppliers, designers, manufacturers and innovators,
[]It must have coaching education from basic instruction through to elite competitive levels,
[]It must have sport science support,
[]It must have excellent administrative support[/list]
But all that is worthless if there are no comitted athletes willing to strive and sacrifice to achieve international excellence. That means a willingness to travel abroad to meet the best wherever they may be, not expecting them to come to you.
Alan
#20 Mon, 10/16/2006 - 8:31am
Alan your comments are spot on...
Its not just a question of sitting back and waiting for corporate sponsors to roll in and fund paddlers on a round the world jaunt...
There is a hell of a lot of work at the administrative level in Tahiti to attract the big sponsors in the first place. Second, there is very good media exposure of the sport. And lastly, the teams that receive these benefits are expected to perfrom at the highest level. In short, everyone has to play their part for it all to work successfully.
The problem as I see it in Hawaii is that many people seem to have a easy going attitude - I'm sure that there are many who put a lot of time and effort into the sport in Hawaii, such as the coaches, club execs etc. But there are different paddling organisations, and a general lack of coordination by everyone to boost the sports profile and compete seriously against the likes of baseball, american football, soccer etc.
In our little part of the Pacific, we constantly have to battle to secure corporate sponsorship when we have so many competing sports (rugby, rugby league, soccer etc). We just have to be more sophisticated and organised when it comes to our administration.
#21 Mon, 10/16/2006 - 8:58am
What makes paddling so strong here in Tahiti ? It's part of our culture.
Give your culture its importance and you will see how the population react.
a solution : put somebody smart that paddles as candidate and vote for him on next elections !!
#22 Mon, 10/16/2006 - 11:57am
basically it comes down to how comitted you are and if you are in it to win or to get paid or if you are in it for fun...if you can combine either of those with the fun then you are really set...but being super comitted isn't always fun...at least from my experiences...but being comitted will eventually pay off in its own way...
#23 Mon, 10/16/2006 - 2:54pm
I think we need to realistically realize here that the time difference between Tahiti's 2nd and 3rd place teams and OCC was not that much (about a minute or so). Given that the Shell Va'a team dominated this event which is kudos to them and the backing and commitment they have as a nation to paddling at all levels. They deserve credit and respect for that feat for sure. At the same time we also need to consider that if the top 9 paddlers from Hawaii (as in a National team) were all on one team and trained together then we may see quite a diferent outcome. Put the top Hawaiin OC-1 paddlers in one boat training as a crew and race against Shell Va'a and compare. That would be very interesting to watch.
Cheers and again congrats to Tahiti for what they accomplished; that can not be underscored.
#24 Wed, 10/18/2006 - 5:55am
Pittbrah, that's the point really,
We can all "if only this", and "what if that"... there's no telling what any team would be capable of if they had the necessary financial support, training, etc etc that a team like Shell has. But that doesn't change anything does it? The fact that Hawaii can't do this because of the lack of organisation, direction and support is probably the difference as you say - but its no excuse, because this is what has been done in Tahiti.
I say, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em... meaning maybe we should start to replicate the kind of approach they have in Tahiti (local support, cultural identity, corporate backing, media exposure etc etc together with a very good sports administration, and selection process). Its not rocket science really, the Tahitians are not super humans, they just train bloody hard, and have everything else taken care of for them.
#25 Wed, 10/18/2006 - 9:01am
I think the void in Hawaii is clear and something needs to be done. And it should start at the administrative level as Alan and Coconut have mentioned.
If all clubs pay due's to a local hui (ie: OCRA or MCHCRA) and that hui pay's dues to another association (HCRA) shouldn't both those organizations provide local and state admin that exceeds race organization and medals?
ie: PR, public awareness and sponsorship programs.
I assume that these associations are currently run on a volunteer basis. No salary's etc. If we could financially support the administration to rally the media and sponsors, I think something can be done.
I have found that in life you will not get something handed to you. You have to work for it. We need to follow the example set by the Tahitians and take it to the next level.
Malama pono...
#26 Wed, 10/18/2006 - 9:26am
Kia ora tatou,
I would just like to add my support to Coc0nut's comments about the outstanding achievements of the Tahitian paddlers. What a fantastic achievement for 3 of their teams to fill the top 3 spots at such a prestigious event as the Molokai, and for the winning team, Shell Va'a, do to so in such convincing fashion in what many would think were unfavourable conditions to achieve such a record time - too much!
As we all know, Tahiti is one of the premier paddling nations on earth - there's no disputing that. Whether it be sprint paddling or marathons, watching the likes of the top Tahitian teams paddle is a sight to behold.
However, this is not a time to drop nuts and look at the shortfalls in the Hawaiian paddling community. Yes, we would all love to have that corporate sponsorship in order to boost the professionalism of this great sport, but until that time comes, forward thinking is more the key - not pondering on what we don't have.
An example of this is the Aotearoa world sprint regime. I know this strays off the topic a little, but there is a point. After Aotearoa pretty much got our butts spanked at the world sprint champs in Hawai'i, the national body was already formulating a system of paddler development even before the last team of the event crossed the finish line. This system had little or any funding at all, but had the support and the buy-in of the vast majority of the clubs throughout the country. For the mens and junior boys/girls grades, the best regional paddlers were put into teams. For the womens grades, the best national paddlers were put into teams. Through sheer guts and determination with quality coaching, Aotearoa went from huge disappointment at Kona to reaching their goals at Karapiro. This was a year-long venture, and corporate sponsorship was pretty much saved for the event only as it's quite a tough task getting team or regional sponsorship in Aotearoa. People might think, "Hey, but you guys are paddling on your own water?", however, Tahiti came here and represented themselves with distinction and have done so on the Hawaiian waters this year. But the Aotearoa region didn't knock the Tahitian achievements, but celebrated their own and also looked within the system for further improvement and development.
So what I'm saying is this: Hawaii is a prestigious nation in waka ama. Just because of one setback, it's not time to drop your lip and get upset about anything. Your teams have been up there for ages, and chances are you'll do it again. With guts, determination, structure and quality coaching, anything can be achieved.
And just on a further note, the Hawaiian women kicked butt in the Wahine o Ke Kai. That's worth a beer isn't it?!
#27 Wed, 10/18/2006 - 5:17pm
hello,
I think you are going too far in your analyse. (administration, media ....)
There is only ONE word "PASSION".
Coz, the Raromatai team has trained only on time all together, because they came from differents islands. and all of those paddlers are not paid or anything like that, but Paddling is their PASSION.
So even a selection of the best hawaiian paddlers will give nothing without this ingredients.
To be thinking...
PS: I'm tired to hear that the weather for molokai 2006 was a weather for tahitians teams.
But when the official gave the start of the race, who was the leader? ....Lanikai, outtriger not shell va'a... and the ocean at this time was very flat. So what's going on...
And last weekend, I have met MAONI Karyl from shell va'a, and he told me that they have to paddling very strong to came near those 2 hawaiians canoes.
So stop, if you are strong, you are strong in all conditions. That is tahitians mentality
jeff
#28 Wed, 10/18/2006 - 6:46pm
i think jeffs got it right there...its the passion...if u get paid great but if thats why u do it than thats not great
#29 Wed, 10/18/2006 - 6:49pm
Just dropping in on this discussion about a month later, wanting to add my two cents. CocOnut said something about the three big races (Hamilton, Molokai, Hava'iki Nui). In 95-96, Lanikai won two Molos, Hamilton 96 and got drilled in one nof their first Hava'iki Nui attempts,also 96. I believe in the Hamilton race they set the course record at the time in variable conditions, as well as a course record in the 95 Molokai. Does this qualify them as one of the all-around great crews in your opinion?Side note-Lanikai also kicked ass in a drinking contest after the 96 Hamilton. Also, it should be noted that this was a real club crew, composed of all home grown Lanikai guys.
#30 Tue, 11/14/2006 - 8:28am
As a former junk Lanikai guy(they have mediocre guys, too) I think most would rather have the Tahitians win than Outrigger. Especially with all kine ex-Lanikai guys on the crew.
#31 Wed, 11/15/2006 - 8:31am
I'm sure that that Lanikai crew was an amazing crew-- any crew that wins Moloka'i or any of those races is amazing. I just want to make a couple quick comments about Tahiti--- and figured that since this thread got brought back up, that i'd make them here.
The Hawaiki Nui race was the most incredible race I have ever done. It was without a doubt the hardest, had the most competition, and was the best organized race i've ever been to. Also the Tahitian people are by far the nicest people I have ever met. Even with a huge language barrier, I felt more welcome there than at any other race. Tahiti (especially the outer islands) are the most beautiful islands i've ever seen. And the way that Tahiti embraces the sport is mind blowing. I didn't realize how big paddling is down there. Tahiti has taken the sport to a completely new level, and it's awesome. It's like heaven for any paddler. You go down there and all of a sudden there is this beautiful place, with amazingly nice people, who ALL love paddling just as much as you. It really is incredible in every way, and I think that everybody should make an attempt to go down there and compete at sometime-- it will show you the possibilties for paddling in Hawai'i.
On top of that--- I will never call Moloka'i the World Championships of paddling ever again-- i'm not saying that Hawaiki Nui is the world championships-- but the fact that a race exists out there as incredible as the Hawaiki Nui makes it impossible for Moloka'i to be the World Championships. I'm not trying to take anything away from Moloka'i either, crossing that channel is still one of my favorite things to do, and it is still a verey demanding race, it just shouldn't be called the World Championships.
And i know this isn't part of this thread-- but it's relevant.. on the topic about Team Hawai'i's seat breaking-- honestly, i think that there is a good chance that their seat was sabotaged-- i've never even heard of a seat breaking (granted every paddler in Team Hawai'i was incredibly strong, so if a seat were to break it would be in that canoe...)-- but even if some drunk guy went and jumped on the seat a couple of times the night of the race-- that doesn't mean a thing. Like i said above, the Tahitians were the most welcoming people in the world, and if someone did break the seat i'm sure it wasn't a competitor but just some random guy that had nothing to do with the race. So it's almost irrelevant if someone broke it or it was just random... it doesn't reflect anything about the Tahitians or about Team Hawai'i...
Anyways-- sorry for bringing that up again, and especially since it's the wrong thread.. just wanted to get some of my thoughts about Tahiti out there.
One last thing about Team Hawai'i-- all of us should be appreciative about what those guys did up there... they went and won a lot of respect back for Hawai'i-- every Tahitian i talked to said that they were shocked that Hawai'i did so well... and seeing what the competition is like up there, i'm more than stoked for those guys--
Hopefully the dates of the race continue to be different and more and more Hawai'i crews will go up to Tahiti (or i guess it's down to Tahiti..). The race is worth it even if you get last place--- we got 49th i think overall, and i've never been so stoked on a race.
To end this (and maybe this isn't the right place for this either... but while we're on the topic....)-- i just want to thank everyone who helped us out in Tahiti--- you all really made it an incredible experience--- mauruuru nui to all of you-- i cannot thank you all enough.
#32 Wed, 11/15/2006 - 8:04pm
So,
Keizo, we are in 2014, and Shell is still Molokai winner, so who is the big brother now...
Thanks to goto to re-open that thread, hehehe, lot of laugh...
Now Tahitian also dominate the OC1, I am dead of laugh.
This time I am sure you will ask to test tahitian paddlers about doping, re-Lol...
bisou, nana, et faa'ito'ito hauli ma.
#33 Tue, 05/27/2014 - 8:34am