Hi everyone. Hope everyone and their families living in Hawaii are doing well following the quake first and foremost.
I wanted to ask people who have paddled both the Hurricane and new Fuze if they could compare these boats in calm/flat conditions and in surfing conditions. Would like to have a good idea how they match up.
Mahalo,
Danno
Submitted by Pittbrah on Sun, 10/15/2006 - 3:09pm
i don't have a ton of time on the fuze, but from my experiences on the fuze, i liked it way more than the hurricane in both the flats and the surf...being about 170lbs. i felt like i would sink the hurricane inthe flats and whenever i was surfing i would always bury the nose when dropping in...on the fuze i never had that problem as it has so much bouyancy in the nose...i also liked the fuze's ama way more as it sits on the water and is light while the hurricane ama cuts through the water. Also, I know that it is more the paddler than the boat but most of the people winning races are on boats other than the hurricanes although there are a few really fast guys on hurricanes...just my thoughts...
#1 Sun, 10/15/2006 - 3:38pm
Yes most of the people winning races in Hawaii (salt water and surf) are winning races in boats other than a Hurricane and that makes lots of sense given the Hurricane is really such a low volume design, narrow and better flat to small conditions boat. On the mainland in the North-East most people winning races here (men & women) are doing so on Hurricanes so far. I do like the hull design of the Fuze, the seat, Ama and construction better than a Hurricane. Thanks for the great feedback on the Fuze.
Mahalo
#2 Sun, 10/15/2006 - 4:19pm
In the Pacific N/W the top guys seem to be on Hurricanes as well .It all depends on the water in the bigger stuff maybe the fuze may be better but in the smaller stuff the hurricane is faster ..The nose does tend to bury but I tend to take the waves angled to avoid burying the nose
#3 Mon, 10/16/2006 - 4:38am
I understand that there may be quite a few more Hurricanes in the North-East and North-West over the last few years given the Hurricane is quite a few years old now. That would explain why the lead paddlers are on them currently as it's the smallest OC-1 around other than the Huki V1-Zs.
The Fuze is a new boat and is just now getting up here so I guess we will see what happens when more people are on Fuzes. The specs of the Fuze are "same size as a Hurricane". 14 inches wide and 20.5 feet long so it should be a fast boat with those specs.
#4 Mon, 10/16/2006 - 9:53am
Like I said in a previous post I got to try one out 3 weeks ago and I liked it but it felt bigger than my hurricane volume wise and definately was not has fast in the flat water .
#5 Mon, 10/16/2006 - 10:07am
It seems to me the Hurricane was designed as one size fits all. In that regard it is pretty good. I have paddled one for 2 years, weighing from 215 to 185 now. The design waterline (that is how the designer planned it to move through the water, plotting the lines and water flow) is about 210. Minus the weight of the boat, that would mean about a 185 lb paddler. It is probably about 1/4" immersion per 15 lbs - that's just my guess, so somebody weighing 215 might float the boat 1/2" deeper than design wl. Just a guess, but that can make a difference, especially in flat. Not so much in waves. Maybe. Karel instead designed the same boat in two versions, low and high volume, based around a 175 lb paddler weight demarcation? I haven't paddled the Fuze, but assume the Fusion handles about the same way for its weight range. I have one of those now and love it.
Comments in comparison to Hurricane:
1) Not sure about flat water because I still have to do a clocked trial comparison. My feeling is that the Fusion has a higher sprint top end, but takes more energy to sustain 90% of its top end than Hurricane does to sustain 95% of its, if that makes any sense? I think it is because the Hurricane has a longer glide. I would guess that Hurricane might have an edge in a long flat marathon race for that reason. But no proof yet.
2) In waves, the Hurricane might have a slight edge going into them, for same reason of glide. But downwind running, no comparison. The other comments of "nb1376" are exactly what I find also. Fusion does not purl as easily and is so much more manueverable that bumps are much easier to connect. However, it does require a minimum "critical mass" in terms of boat speed to get up and begin surfing. Less than that and waves will pass it by and it will trough out like anything else. Overall, I think it is hard to beat running in surf or waves.
3) Fusion is incredibly stable, so that there is simply no issue about waves or balance at all. No concern about flying ama - it is just not much of a thought whether it is in or out of the water. Really not much bracing required. You can rig light in waves, no problem. In cross wind ama side, it is a little better to rig heavier.
4) "nb1376" is also spot on about tha ama. I love that thing. It is like the puffy ama on a Mirage. It stays very light on top of the water and has almost no drag that way. It also lifts out very easily, instead of submerging and then popping out like the Hurricane ama. That's one thing that makes the boat feel even more stable. Also, the seat comfort of the Fusion is second to none. I always have trouble with the Hurricane seat after 1-1/2 hours.
To sum it up, I still like the Hurricane and want to do more direct comparisons on the clock. I also only hope that the Fuze would perform the same as the Fusion within its weight range.
Best, MZB
#6 Mon, 10/16/2006 - 11:43am
the hurricane would do okay in smaller waves but i raced one in kauai and even angling it into the waves didn't always help, same when i paddled one in so cal where i usually paddle,
also i believe that the boats are the same dimensions as others have said above but i think that the fuze has much more volume and therefore has more bouyancy...i actually have a pegasus on order and although it is a relatively small boat it too looks like it has enough bouyancy in the nose to keep it from pearling...just a guess though as i have never paddled a pegasus yet
#7 Mon, 10/16/2006 - 2:52pm
I have paddled both a fuze and a hurricane (approx. 3 months on each) and personally I perfered the fuze in the flat water, but the hurricane in the surf. I really like both boats, but in the surf it seems like the hurricane can not only catch the bigger waves but also the small bumps as well. Don't get me wrong, the fuze is an awesome boat, but overall I felt like the hurricane just picked up more. In the flats, it felt like the fuze had much more glide, and the cockpit was lower to the water. The hurricane is good in the flats, but I felt like I was sitting to high off of the water.
#8 Thu, 10/26/2006 - 5:34am
Good post NAC..
Since your opinion had to do with the water line, can I ask you how much you weigh?
#9 Fri, 10/27/2006 - 12:30pm
Sounds like the Huricane beats out the Fusion in the flats by far. Lets hear the comparison with the Huricane and Pegasus.
Heres my take:
PROS: Great boat. Durable. Built for surfing and downwind. Good for 190+ lbs bulls. Stable. Comfortable. Long lasting.
CONS: Bogs in the flats. Extra vollume ads drag. You're screwed in the upwind.
PROS: Fast glide. Slick haul design. Ama design cuts through water decreasing ama drag. Easy to fly ama. Fast in upwind and in flats. Nice peddle design as heel is firmly planted (toes move pedals). Easy to catch bumps -esp small waves and currents.
CONS: Uncomfortable on okole. Built for lighter paddler. Ama might be too light for some. Poke tako when on fast steep wave. Fragile....handle with care. Big swell or ground waves might destroy.
PROS: Fast, long glide. Comfortble. Ama fly easy. Excellent in the surf and downwind. Ama designed for wave angle and minimizing drag. Light.
CONS: Bigger nose vollume creates drag in upwind. Pedals are large and catch in the footwells. Trippy looking ama.
#10 Fri, 10/27/2006 - 1:11pm
AmaFly sorry but making a comparison between a Fusion and Hurricane or Pegasus in flat water is pointless. The Fusion is a bigger volume and wider beam boat than a Hurricane and Pegasus by far. Compare (as others have here) the Hurricane and Pegasus to the FUZE which is around the same size. Not sure I would call these boats the "BIG THREE". Many other boats are equally fast depending on the water conditions you race in.
#11 Fri, 10/27/2006 - 3:51pm
i've had a pegasus last couple years in california... all things being equal:
upwind the hurricane kills the pegasus... if nothing else, the front of the ama being a foot off the water catches the wind- big time
downwind on bigger days, the pegasus connects bumps better- it slides from bump to bump better, LATERALL- you can swing from bump, and slide over to set up for the next bump, and the next one.. this was what the pegasus was bred to do. the hurricane may pearl more or not, but that i think is more technique, and something you can adjust for once you get used to the boat.
on smaller days, the hurricane seems to connect the little runners with less effort, it seems not to dig into the trough as much, esp. for smaller shorter interval wind chop.
medium days, i'd say even.
in the flats, i'd say they're about equal, BUT only if you keep the ama super light on the pegasus. i have the old bixler looking ama, and the fat bottom slaps the water constantly unless you float it. i rig as light as possible, and i never lean heavy on the ama, but it seems like the hurricane ama cuts through the water with less effort, all things being equal. i'd say if someone was brand new to a one man, and tried the pegasus and the hurricane, he'd go faster on the hurricane the first day... i think the pegasus takes getting used to..
the hurricane seat and the the way the footwell pushes the toes up really locks you in the boat- it's solid. that being said, i don't think i can ever get used to the stiff seat- longer than an hour, and my ass is history.
flying the ama i'd say don't matter- both are easy, and more paddler than boat. the pegasus i think is a tiny bit lower to the water, so it feels like the hurricane bobs a little more, but sometimes that may be an advantage..
i love my pegasus, and it would be my choice if i was crossing the channel tomorrow, but for california, i'd say overall the hurricane is a more practical boat.
just my opinion.
#12 Fri, 10/27/2006 - 4:38pm
"Many other boats are equally fast depending on the water conditions you race in."
Please indulge....what other boats?
#13 Fri, 10/27/2006 - 5:06pm
I have the Fuze & Hurricane. Both have it's pros and cons but I tend to favor my Fuze more because of overall comfort (better seat) and userbility (better turning, etc.) Plus my hurricane is older, so of course has more kinks in it. But couple months back when a bunch of us were doing time trials one of our top guys who owns a Pegasus said it doesn't matter what we have, so he traded his out for my leaky hurricane and still kicked all our asses. The next week he kicked our butts in one of those sucky Hyper boats which goes to show that sometimes it's not the arrow, it's the indian.
#14 Fri, 10/27/2006 - 5:55pm
Nemo, at the time I was weighing in around 160 (approx.) that was march of 06, now I weigh 180 so the fuze is going to be a little small, I personally might want to the fusion. Just for a bigger volume boat.
#15 Fri, 10/27/2006 - 7:01pm
i would have to say that there is no way u could leave a kaimana out of a comparison like that...so far a kaimana is by far the fastest boat that i have paddled in both flats and suf(other boats i've paddled are fuze, hurricane, elua, stingray) and i feel twice as fast in the kaimana than any of those boats...
#16 Fri, 10/27/2006 - 7:46pm
Thanks NAC. Definetely helps in my evaluation. Im 180lbs on race day, can be up to 195 lbs when not training, althou its been a while.
Each boat is different. Im just trying to find the one that will match up best to my style. When it comes to droping $3k on one of these bad boys, you want to get the right one. Especially since a 2nd boat will be a hard sell to the wife. She might just kick me to the curb.
Aloha...
#17 Fri, 10/27/2006 - 10:19pm
AmaFly boats like the Kaimana and new Kainalu, the Vantage, Pahoa, Makia, Polaris and Huki-V1-Z (mostly in the mainland) are all comparative to the boats you mentioned. Never mind the Fuze which many people have already discussed.
I currently own a Kaimana and it is a great boat in both the flats and the bumps, it's such a versatile boat that the only way I'd sell it is to upgrade to a Kainalu the updated Kaimana from Johnny P. which is supposed to be even better. I originally ordered a Hurricane for the North-East (mainland) as a second boat for me and my spouse to paddle as it would be a fast boat in our waters, but decided to go with a Fuze instead for a few reasons. The Fuze is far more comfortable (seat & position) to paddle in for longer sessions, the boat turns and moves very well in bumps and given it's size should be equally as fast as a Hurricane. Basically I wanted a smaller volume boat that had the versatility of my original Kaimana in diferent conditions.
Mahalo all for your input and feedback. It's great to get everyone's opinions out here as it helps us all to beg for rides on boats we don't own ;-) to find what works best for each of us.
#18 Sat, 10/28/2006 - 4:55am
Nemo, glad to help...another boat I would definitly look into is the Kaimana. I currently own one and it's heaven on earth. I am mainly using it 2-3 foot surf if that and I paddle a lot of flat water. It is by far one of the best all round boats I have used. Unfortanatly I havn't been able to use some of Kai's boats so I can't compare a whole lot...but you should really look into them. I think they're amazing!!! by the way, what kind of conditions do you paddle in? Thanx.
#19 Sat, 10/28/2006 - 7:04am
Kaimana vs the Hurricane , I have paddled both and hands down the hurricane is faster ..hate to say that .I spend a ton of time doing sprint work and I have switch off my hurricane w/ team members who have the Kaimana and they all agree the Hurricane ,in the flats , is a faster boat at least in the Pacific N/W water . I have triend the Huki V1x,Kaimana,Fuze,Fushion , and the Hurricane in the flat water gets up to speed faster .I have a Garmin I attach to these boats to train with so I know exactly how fast I can get them going over distance
I'm waiting for the Pegasus to arrive so I can try it out ....... its a tough choice weather to keep my Hurricane or buy the Pegasus
#20 Sat, 10/28/2006 - 9:31am
NAC..I paddle in a variety of conditions here on Maui. I break it up with 3 morning and 3 afternoon seshions a week. When the trades are in I do a triangle in the afternoon (upwind, out and down, then back upwind) or straight downwind run when I can partner up for a ride back. The mornings are flat, so good techinique training.
Maliko is the next step for me, but waiting for a new boat.
#21 Sat, 10/28/2006 - 3:18pm
We just got back from an awesome weekend of racing at Treasure Island, Florida.
First off, the T.I. gang (Rea and Mike Sieber) put on a really fun event, with food/beer/shirts/beer/racing/beer/raffle prizes out the yang and did I mention they had some beer? Oh yeah...5 bucks! That's what it cost for the above mentioned stuff and race. Unbaleebable!
The race.
The course (8.5 miles) was divided into two distinctly different condition venues. The first and last segments, approximately 2 miles each of intercoastal canals, were flat, in your face wind/current with twists and turns around/under piers/pilings. (More on the pilings in a bit.)
The middle half was...a blast! A cold front blew through the night before the race, the Gulf was up and the wind was maching (20 - 30mph) at our backs.
This was my first event down in the "Sunshine State", these guys can paddle!
Jean, Lex, John, Cortland, Jack etc. are hammer heads! It was fun just trying to hang with them.
Eric McNett hung.
If you made it this far into the thread you are probably wondering, what does any of this have to do with Fuze vs. Hurricane?
Eric hails from Maine (outrigger hub, what?) and he is the East Coast distributor for Outrigger Connection. He drove (!?!?!) south, pulling a trailer with several Fuzes and a Stingray II and paddled a Fuze to a first place finish on Saturday. The Florida paddlers are on Hurricanes. With the mixed conditions out on the course it would have been easy to assume that the Hurricanes would dominate in the flats and that the Fuze would impersonate a torpedo out in the Gulf. That's why it's called an assumption. Eric held his own in the canals and won in a sprint on the flat finish, while I saw guys on Hurricanes (Lex Raas-specifically) give a clinic on how to surf, wind blown storm chop. It looked like someone threw a bag of cats out onto an ice skating rink when we hit the Gulf. There were canoes everywhere and then we all came back together at the entrance into the finish stretch on the inter-coastal canal. I was on a Fuze as well and had an unremarkable race. Though I will remark on the construction of these new canoes. They are tough. I hit a barnacle encrusted piling at full tilt, with my ama and scratched it the full length, but no structural damage. (The contact was severe enough to lift the ama shoulder high out of the water, before it slammed down and I continued on my merry way.) That should have been test enough but I decided to try the "ama-under-down-the-wave-face" trick for some real insight on the Fuze's toughness. A better paddler would have seen the swell peaking at double overhead (paddlers’ perspective) and turned down the face, but I was in oxygen debt and totally focused on the guys turning into the channel in front of me. As I was looking straight down my left side at the now submerged ama and thinking this isn't good, the wave dumped me out onto the ama. We (the canoe and I) popped back up and again, continued on our merry way, no worse for wear. There is a small crack in the gel-coat on the ama. There wasn't a drop of water inside the hull of either the ama or canoe and I feel somewhat lucky that I didn't create carnage.
Though not my best "competitive effort", I had a really good paddle. The surfing session was a revelation and the flats...well I hate the flats. Fun spelled backwards.
The Fuze "feels" great. Contact between the canoe and paddler is unlike anything I have paddled and the resulting responsiveness to paddler input is amazing. Fit, finish, ease of assembly and durability are all excellent. My highly (in)accurate scale puts the Fuze at 29-30 lbs, total canoe weight. If you live anywhere near my location, or just passing through, come by and take her out for a demo.
On any given day one can jump on ocpaddler and get an injection of opinions on canoe performance from all over the world, on any of the current offerings. The list of really good OC-1s isn't very long and depending on where you live, the availability of certain makes/models may shorten that list to a single canoe. The latest generation of top notch OC-1s are all good. That being said, it is still the motor that makes the boat go.
The Fuze is the canoe under my okole and I am stoked.
#22 Tue, 10/31/2006 - 4:16am
hey yldbill,
How would you compare the Fuze to Huki V1X.
thanks!
#23 Tue, 10/31/2006 - 9:34am
Mishka,
I have had my V1-X for the better part of a year.
I have succesfully raced and won on the Huki. The craftmanship and factory support are "benchmark", tops in the industry. Jude builds a fine watercraft and unless Tiger is up to full speed, Jude is the only guy on the mainland who you can order a truly custom, boutique OC-1from.
Until I paddled the Fuze, I had not been on anything more comfortable or fun in the water as the X.
Flat water speed had the edge going to the Fuze. Same day conditions, protected canal, GPS and multiple runs. I also TT'd my wife's Hurricane and it was very close. Too close to give the nod to either the Fuze or Hurricane. But I was getting tenths of a mph over the Huki on both canoes.
As for bump riding, I will reiterate, nothing I have paddled compares to the Fuze. It flies from bump to bump and is almost intuitive on the face of a swell. The number of missed opportunities, getting onto a bump from behind, dropped significantly with the Fuze. I would take the Huki over the Hurricane in any conditions but especially in the bump.
My okole could not take the punishment and I have never felt "dialed -in" on the Hurricane.
The margins are narrow and subjectivity is a huge variable, but I am very pleased with the Fuze and would not "pimp-it" if wasn't as good as or better than my current ride.
It's a double edged sword, because I really like the Huki and Jude for that matter.
As these threads go on, the Human Factor should be considered as well.
Outrigger Connection has a very cool design with the Fuze. The word is, that they will stand by the product and if the reps, like Eric McNett, are any indication of the committment to customer support, this will be true.
#24 Tue, 10/31/2006 - 11:31am
Thanks for a great reply yldbill !
I strongly agree with you that customer support is a big factor when deciding on a ride. Especially, when it comes to product quality guarantees.
peace
#25 Tue, 10/31/2006 - 12:39pm
I haven't tried the Fuze yet and yldbill is a friend of mine but I feel compelled to add that Outrigger Connection did not stand their product when I was the unlucky consumer of a poorly manufactured Stingray. I even cc'd Tresnak on a very detailed letter explaining my dissatisfaction with Wenonah's service and recieved no response what so ever. It was disheartening to spend money on a boat only to be left with a substandard product and no interest by either Wenonah or Outrigger Connection to provide adequate service.
That said I defer to yldbill and believe him when he says the quality of the Fuze is excellent. I just hope that if there are problems Outrigger Connection has changed their "so what" attitude towards custumer service.
I now own a Hurricane and am happy as a clam. The seat fits me fine and it's been a great boat for this 125-130 lb paddler.
#26 Tue, 10/31/2006 - 1:06pm
Aloha,
In response to Bill, we got our canoes from Tiger this September. The wait was longer than we thought due to start-up problems that Jackie said were unforseen, but thankfully the boats are here now. We used Forward Air for the shipping and had an ama damaged during shipping, but the Taylors sent a new ama immediately.
Jackie stated to me at our last contact that they are fully up and running. As Bill said the boats are built and balanced for the paddler.
Good luck with your fuze Bill, looking forward to paddling with you soon.
JW
#27 Wed, 11/01/2006 - 1:29am
All these boats sound great, good top speed and surfing abilities etc.
The Hurricane's have been doing well here also, but when it comes to W1 sprints, the Hurricane seems to be passed over for the Tahitian designs (W1 sprints are done without a rudder). a common story is the newer canoes are designed requiring to be paddled with a rudder, so Tahitian style track straighter and are better balanced without them.
Just curious if anyone has paddled the Fuze/Fusion/Kaimala etc rudderless - how do they go?
#28 Wed, 11/01/2006 - 10:03am
its amazing how much faster a oc can be with the rudder removed . I'm about to start training rudderless w/ my hurricane so guess we'll find out how it is w/o one .
Anyone else gone rudderless w/ a hurricane .....experience ?
#29 Wed, 11/01/2006 - 10:52am
Does anyone know why Outrigger Connection doesn't market their kanus in SoCal? I see them being marketed on the East Coast and of course, Hawaii, but you'd be hard pressed to find a Fuze or Fusion in California. There's two or three Stingrays around, but most of those were purchased in Hawaii and shipped over. I realize the perception is they aren't built for "these waters" (i.e. too much volume and rocker), but I can't believe there isn't some market for them here. SoCal is primarily dominated by Hurricanes and Kaimanas. I paddle a Hurricane and love it, but would love to try a Fuze.
#30 Fri, 11/03/2006 - 9:33am
Not sure why the Outrigger Connection boats are not distributed in California by someone local at this point. I would send an e-mail to the Tresnaks on their OC website asking if they have plans in the near future for having someone REP their boats there. Might as well get an answer directly from the source. The OC boats Rep'd by Eastern Outrigger in the North East was just recently established this summer from what I know. OC may have plans for broader distribution in other areas of the Mainland and Canada.
Aloha all :-)
#31 Fri, 11/03/2006 - 11:48am
On west coast try contacting Chris O`kieffe at:
858.337.1190
www.oceanohana.com
#32 Fri, 11/03/2006 - 12:09pm
fuze in cali.....I have a fuze in cali...I did have it shipped...it is a great boat...construction is superb...I got carbon kevlar as I am willing to endure the extra pound...I am 6 ft and 170....In terms of displacement I use the waterline the boat was designed for..I had a Kaimana...it was a lot of extra hull to push around....the fuze is efficient..WAY more fun in the blue water..accelerates quickly , drives down the crappiest wind chop like it was surf.the big rudder might suck in a flat water time trial, but if you want to jump from small bump to small bump...it is the way to go...keep in mind I am not THE paddler...just one amateur's opinion...it was worth the money and the wait..( Ok , Karel, hold on to my incentive check, I'll pick it up in a couple days).
#33 Thu, 11/09/2006 - 3:12pm
On the east coast, I have been paddling/racing an older HUKI vac., carbon fiber V1A in flat water. I have a Hurricane that I use primarily in the surf...the older HUKI appears a little fragile in rougher water. Using a GPS, I've found that my HUKI is faster in the flat. I go at about 190-195lbs. Right on the edge for the Hurricane I believe. My paddling partner recently got a Fusion. We've switched out several times. I've never tried it in the ocean, but I think it feels like it would be a nice boat for surfing/bumps, etc. On the flat, I think it's too much boat for me. High Volume hull. I also feel awkward in it. I'm used to sitting higher up....not in the hull as is the case w/ the Fusion. I'd like to give the FUZE a try. I DO agree however w/ the "okole" factor on the hurrican and HUKI for that matter. After about an hour and fifteen minutes or so, the left leg begins to ache and go numb. It is my winter project to try to develop a more comfortable seat! I'm going to try to use some of that new swedish memory foam stuff that mattresses, pillows, etc. are made out of.
#34 Sun, 11/19/2006 - 3:41am
Howzit Drew?
Hey I sent you an email with an invite to come down to the "Bridge".
We got one of each (Fuze, Hurricane, Huki and a Tevanui) to compare against.
It takes a little longer for winter to grip us down here, so come whenevahs.
#35 Sun, 11/19/2006 - 1:14pm
Drew,
Up here in Canada OBUSForme makes some sweet seat cushions with gel centers that I looked at that one could easily adapt into a canoe seat (using velcro strips). I have the same problem with my Kaimana seat as it is fairly thin compressed foam. After the first hour I can feel it and the second hour is a real chore. I wish OC builders moved to gel based seats in waterproof covers. I think that would help all our behinds and they are not that expensive when you consider the overall cost of a boat and the amount of time we spend on them. Just add velcro to the base and we have new gel OC seats.
About the only thing you would need to do is get a waterproof cover sewn for it if desired.
You can check it out gel seats here:
http://geltecproducts.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=2
http://www.amazon.com/OBUS-FORME-Gel-Seat-Cushion/dp/B000H1D8RE
The Obusforme seat is only 45$ US.
Danno
#36 Mon, 11/20/2006 - 12:37pm
My Fuze seat stays purdy dang comfy for hours on end bruddahs. totally customizable too. Take for example a stock , fresh from the factory , Fuze or Fusion saddle and change it to suit your butt by scraping the contours you want with coarse sand paper. Small seats can be made large , shallow seats can be made deeper in this way. Also, if you have more than one paddler using da boat , it
s a good thing to have multiple seats available for each individual paddler. The sculpted seat is actually a part of the canoes hull , itslines match that of the deck contours.The overall width and length of the seat foam doesn`t change, one seat size to another. What does change is the location of the indentation where your butt fits .
#37 Mon, 11/20/2006 - 12:59pm
I'm not sure that this is a case of a "stiff" seat. Perhapse you should look at these threads for help:
http://www.ocpaddler.com/node/1033
http://www.ocpaddler.com/node/1199
When I do my long distance training I have no problem paddling for 2 1/2 hours without any discomfort. And this is on a club boat with 3cm thick foam pad not a seat
:(
peace
#38 Mon, 11/20/2006 - 1:02pm
also try rigging your ama heavier and using ur hips to shift your weight more to the right to compensate for it...now your not putting all your weight on the left to keep the ama down, rather your keeping your weight more evenly distributed and the ama will still be light because your leaning right more...
worked for me at least...
#39 Mon, 11/20/2006 - 1:04pm
Ama rigging and balance aside, different seats make a big difference in comfort. I have been in enough different saddles at this point to prefer certain seats from OCs over others. A buddy of mine has an original Tiger built Pahoa and that seat is way more comfy than my current ride and others I have been on...i.e. Hurricane . I could paddle in that Pahoa for hours on end and be comfy. As many others have said, the Fuze/Fusion seats are heaven so I am looking forward to my new ride in the new year when I get it.
There is a reason cyclists have gone to comfy gel seats..., I hope the OCs go that way also......the sooner the better! ;-)
Choke Mahalo all....
#40 Mon, 11/20/2006 - 3:10pm
Oooops...sorry folks double reply...there was a system delay here.
Cheers
#41 Mon, 11/20/2006 - 3:20pm
everyone talks about the new fuze, fusion kaimana to name a few. But I am wondering if anyone has anything on the pahoa. has anyone out there ever paddled one before?
I really would like to hear what type of feedback anyone has on it.
#42 Mon, 11/27/2006 - 12:26pm
My buddy JW here in Canada just got his Tiger built Pahoa this fall and loves it. It was solidly built by Tiger himself in Cali. I have only paddled it once so I'll give some small feedback based on my comparison to my Kaimana which I own and a Hurricane which I have paddled.
Overall the design/construction of the Pahoa is excellent, it's a very good all round boat (i.e. for someone 190lbs and up) in my opinion.
Hey JW....the forum is open and ripe for comment for you on your Pahoa bradah!
Choke Aloha.....Pittster
#43 Mon, 11/27/2006 - 1:16pm
thanks for the input pittster.
anyone else have anything to add or comment on the pahoa?
#44 Mon, 11/27/2006 - 1:51pm
gotrice, I've had my pahoa for all of 2 months now and this is the end of my second season of oc-1. Huge credentials I know ;o) I have been paddling for quite some time but am new to oc-1.
Tiger and Jackie are really easy to deal with and have treated my wife and I very well. We had a problem with the shipping, cracked ama, that could have easily been a shipper error, but Jackie decided to simply deal with and they had us a new ama inside two weeks, pretty good considering it takes almost a week to ship to Ontario Canada.
Anyways the pahoa. The reason I got her wasn't for her flat water performance. I got her for the downhill runs baby! Eventhough we are on a lake it is a rather large one and the waves can get a decent size at times. I find the Pahoa is a fantastic "downhill" boat. The waves pick her up really well. The boats are "sized" for the user, I sent Tiger my inseam when I ordered her. You lift the boat at my seat and you have the balance point. Goosing the boat on a wave is really easy because of this. I'm a little closer to the foot pedals than I was used to but it is no problem now even after only two months on her. The boats rocker and rudder really allow you to go wherever you want on the wave. I've been on boats in the past where I felt like I was in a rodeo and the boat went where ever it wanted and I had to simply deal with it. That hasn't happened since I've had the pahoa, of course there are conditions that can toss any boat but on our lake it will probablly be pretty rare. We raced in a small craft warning and aside from rigging her too light, newbie error, I had no difficulties.
As my buddy mentioned the seat is pretty comfortable. I think alot of that has to do with the fact that she is pretty stable. When I'm doing my balance work, read ama flying, the ama comes up pretty evenly. I think the less primary stability your boat has the more newbies like me tend to lean left and thus we get uncomfortable in the saddle. Even when the boat heels on a wave and the ama pops up it happens pretty slowly so it is no panic to drop your hips to get it back down. It often comes down simply during the normal recovery phase of my stroke.The foam seat is way softer than my buddy's Kiamana never mind some of the boats I've paddled. I wince at the memory.
The downside is that she is a higher volume craft so perhaps not as much glide in the flats as the lower volume designs, but again I'm petty new at this. Mike Judd and Greg Long seem to have no trouble moving their pahoas. The pahoa has a shorter waterline due to the rocker so some flat water speed would be sacrificed in theory anyways.
I love this forum because everyone seems to be really stoked on the boats they ride. I'll confess I'm no exception to that. I'm pretty convinced that good paddlers can make any boat move and people with the right attitudes will enjoy most any of the boats we talk about. I think the pahoa is really well suited for my needs and I think that the Taylors are good people to deal with, Tiger does build a good boat.
Good luck with your oc choice I found it a pretty exciting time for me. Jackie said they were at 6 months wait time the last time I talked to her. If you are anywhere near Ontario Canada drop me a line and hopefully we can get out for a paddle. We are a three boat family as of now with hopefully more boats to come :o).
Aloha,
Jeff Whelan
#45 Mon, 11/27/2006 - 4:03pm
I appreciate all the feedback. this definitely helps. Been wondering about the pahoa, i know its a great downhill boat but thats it. noone ever seems to talk about it. its all fuze, fusion and so on. I myself paddle a kaimana, and I love it. but been considering a pahoa because as you mentioned tiger has great craftsmanship and customer care. thank you both braddahs from the north.
#46 Mon, 11/27/2006 - 5:10pm
having only spent a brief amount of time in a pahoa i decided that the ama was too hard to fly...i felt like i was in a club boat with one of the beasty amas...i did find that the boat surfed well but did not feel like it ran well in the flats or upwind...on the other hand i love the kaimanas so i would stick with that as a better all around boat gotrice...jsut my opinion
#47 Mon, 11/27/2006 - 5:32pm