i'm wondering why there hasn't been a push for plastic rotomolded oc1's. they're indestructible, and they'd be cheaper than what's out there...of course it wouldn't replace the racing boats that we use now; it wouldn't be worth racing, but who cares... that's not the point, it'll be great for those starting out, and for clubs to have around for beginners... that's the way the sport is evolving and there needs to be a way for people to break into it without shelling 3 grand. instead of taking business away from the existing oc1 buildiers, it'll expand it since it'll open up the market for a whole new demographic- whether that's good or not can be debated...
i've seen one online somewhere but no more... it'll be interesting to see if someone can come up with a good one for under a grand... think scupper or scrambler. any thoughts?
Submitted by dacho on Tue, 01/02/2007 - 9:00am
Here's the one you have seen online, previously made by Walden Kayak (now defunct).
http://www.riotkayaks.com/v3/fw_nalu.asp
and others are trying...
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11885
#1 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 9:44am
Seems to me that in terms of our sport, such craft are neither here nor there. The best way to learn how to paddle is in a six-man waa. From there you just go to a one-man.
#2 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 10:22am
But at the recreational level, you might as well buy a plastic kayak. They're already out there and have less parts. I agree that the best way to get into the sport is to start out in a six-man. Once you're hooked, $3k is easy to justify.
#3 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 10:42am
I think there is a big market for a recreational outrigger that is rotomolded. Think about it - the rental capacity on waikiki beach ! oh yea sign me up .
The kayak world doesn't get outriggers yet - but they are slowing being brought around. The dealer network is well established and it works really well -and rentals are all part of it
I know everyone loves their "nano weight stiff as anything 4 thousand dollar canoes"- but if the sport is to really grow and we want kids to join in then we have to make outriggers affordadibe - indestructible and accessible.
#4 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 12:17pm
I see your point and I'm not trying to be contrary or argumentative, but I'd rather see kids develop under the careful guidance of a coach in the six-man. Its their time to learn to respect the ways of the water, the wind, and the waves--to develop and gain confidence in their own physical and spiritual strengths. After a few years paddling, BAM, they are just about tall enough to fit a full sized OC-1.
But then again, my perspective is limited to the waters around Hawaii. The situation could be entirely different at other venues.
#5 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 1:02pm
For me it worked the other way around. I first was invited to paddle on a oneman. Got hooked immediately bought a cheap boat and then got into sixman to learn proper stroke etc.. My point is that it is difficult to even rent a boat to try outrigger paddling. I was just super lucky to be invited and just happened to have the dough to buy a used one after I could not longer impose on my friend. Being in a club is quite a commitment as you all know and some folks can be intimidated. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only place I've found that rents 1mans is in the Canary Islands off the coast of Africa.They have a euromade fiberglass lauyup quite reasonably priced.
http://www.canoacanarias.com/html/rentals.htm
How come nothing like that in Hawaii?
I can rent a surfboard with a lesson in Waikiki why not with oc1 with a lesson on outrigger paddling?
Man if I'd live in Hawaii I'd be all over this little business opportunity.
So while I paddle westcoast someone go start it up so us visitors can rent 1man when we come to visit.
Aloha
#6 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 1:04pm
judging by the comments of the people who went over to race hawaiki nui, there are major benefits for paddling to be sponsored, supported, and well exposed... it's not like surfing where you'll be blue crushed to death by weekend warriors at your local break... the beauty of paddling is that we are unaffected regardless of how many people are on the water... and the more the merrier at the races. the easier it is for people to paddle, the better. of course we'll still need the instruction and comraderie of clubs, and always will- it's just not the best way to grow the sport.
#7 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 1:28pm
An affordible - relatively indestructible canoe I think would be an asset to a paddling club, Individual , new paddler or rental operation. - I think there is a great need. The technology to do this is available . We don't have to use composite layups all the time and wait forever for boats from China . There are thermoplastic kayaks now out on the market. They are priced under composite kayaks significantly. This type of technology offers a relatively light weight - very strong plastic glass like structure, while the rotomold plastic used in kayaks , especially whitewater is indestructible, but heavy. It is this theroplastic technology that is put into a mold that could offer a brand new twist in the outrigger market. The expense is in the molds- but you can pop boats out to your hearts content.
I also agree with blue sea the place to start is in the oc-6 . Does any one else notice that oc-6 is taking a bit of a dip in partipipation now that everyone want to race oc-1's ?
#8 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 2:34pm
Glass not rotomolded.
I think a rotomolded oc-1 would give up too much in performance due to excessive weight and flex. Better to go with a glass layup. Way cheaper than the hot canoes but a lot closer in "feel" than a roto. If the intro canoes are total dogs, who would want to keep paddling?
#9 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 4:40pm
I think it is the same people that buy their kayaks at Costco - they represent a huge recreational market - not everyone is a racer or performance oriented. A roto or thermo formed oc-1 is not the same as a carbon racing canoe - never will be - It is a different animal after a different market.
I see a problem with this glass canoe- although they may be cheaper but they are still are hand layed one at a time. Go to any canoe manufacturer now and yes the fiberglass is cheaper but the delivery time is the same. unfortunately. Still it is a better boat that a roto and worth waiting for .
But just imagine this - a tourist on Waikiki want to try out this outrigger thing - he pays for a rental and a lesson - $ 69.00 for two hours - LOVES IT - Goes to pacific paddler and is blown away - goes home joins a club - buys his own Oc-1. Thats how I see it working .
#10 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 5:27pm
For sake of discussion, ...
I'd toss in that on my brief experience with a paddle in oc-1, its lightweight definitely keep me from a huli when I miss judged the effect of current in outside of river bend as I was making wide turn to return back down stream. The faster flowing current I ended the turn in was about to send me into the overhanging branches along bank. A couple of reverse stokes and I got out of the bind!
It was s short introductory experience but what a setting...the last stretch of the river there before Hanalei Bay.(I was week of KWC btw but I was just out to see it and help out a little during the week, etc.)
And I'd also credit a previous 6-man 'tryout paddle' with a Dallas canoe club for some basics...at least I got the paddle pointed "right"! So maybe this would be sort of the typical experience "pullingwater" is talking about anyway?
#11 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 8:49pm
We're working on the roto-OC1 as being new in the OC market and recieving quite a lot inquiries from paddlers who just want to try.
The most obstacle in manufacturing roto-canoe is the investment on metal mold.
But we have actually developed totally new approach to build the mold even cheaper than mold for fiberglass canoes.
We have not yet made final decision if we go forward on our project or not.
But once we've succeeded in persuading several investors, our roto-OC1 will be available by this spring.
Meanwhile, we have got one NALU from Walden.
It's a bit obsolete in design and most paddler do not like how it looks, but good enough to experience what the OC paddling is. Actually we put sail on it and now a good sail fishing toy for us:)
#12 Tue, 01/02/2007 - 11:25pm
Our plastic V1 is now growing here!
#13 Sun, 02/03/2008 - 6:03am
#14 Sun, 02/03/2008 - 6:05am
Nice boat Taiki, I think there would be a strong market for a boat like yours. I remember when the Coleman company came out with a cheap entry level canoe, the high end boat manufacturers were all worried about their potential loss of market share.
Well, hind sight has shown that the Coleman canoes actually helped the higher end manufacturers to sell more boats because of bigger numbers of people getting into paddling. The people who bought the Colemans ,bought higher performance boats the second time around.
It was a win win situation foe everyone.
Send me a private message to discuss orders and availability.
#15 Sun, 02/03/2008 - 6:15am
Its a start but these boats look more of a sit-on -top with outriger added than oc-1.
Do you think that real ''plastic'' oc-1 lets say 10-15% slower compared to top composite ones could be sold in any numbers if priced for lets say 1100-1400Us
#16 Wed, 03/12/2008 - 1:42pm
As it looks, roto Va'a is not built for speed.
Just for fun or beginners to experience what OC paddling is.
Also, it is so robust and we never had problem surfing in Typhoon waves.
No one will play with your carbon hightech OC1 in 10 feet breaking waves.
#17 Wed, 09/29/2010 - 6:31am