I'd just like to know what everyone thinks of Oc-1 performance as a means of judging oc-6 paddling ability. For example, I'm a big fat slob, but I'm absolutely sure that I'm a better six-manner than some little guys who are fast on the oc-1. Feel free to comment as often and as obnoxiously as is humanly possible.
Submitted by Jim on Fri, 02/02/2007 - 3:09pm
hands down, the fast one man paddlers are faster. all the kids i've coached that are faster on one man's make a six man faster. even the fat kids that are fast in a six man are fast in a one man, and vice versa. of course there will be the exceptions, but in 10 years i haven't found any.
#1 Fri, 02/02/2007 - 3:51pm
How does a one-man time trial show who's got the most heart? Until you show me a device that can accurately measure a man's moxy, a moxy meter, if you will, then good old-fashioned coaching will always be needed. My moxy varies in size according to climatic conditions and certain other variables.
#2 Fri, 02/02/2007 - 4:28pm
Moxyness aside...
OC-1 Time Trials can show who's got more Heart...Capacity in terms of VO2 max...
#3 Fri, 02/02/2007 - 4:35pm
moxie
From Wiktionary
Pronunciation
mÅk'sÄ“, /ʼmÉ’ksi/, /mQksi/
Noun
moxie (uncountable)
backbone, determination and fortitude
initiative or skill
so your saying moxie does not apply to one man paddling?
#4 Fri, 02/02/2007 - 4:42pm
I was talking about moxy with a y, which is completely different from moxie, and is way better for six-Manning.
#5 Fri, 02/02/2007 - 4:53pm
OC-1 is the best way to go when judging someones paddling abilities.
Nowhere to hide...... let it all hang out...... and to begin with, get your butt kicked around a course.... that takes moxy.
#6 Fri, 02/02/2007 - 5:18pm
Ah, yes. Moxy (or Moxie...whatevers). The mating cry of the midpacker. By the time your moxie kicks in, everyone else is a half mile ahead of you. One-man is the surest test of all. It tests moxie AND conditioning...and you can't hide your flaws.
#7 Fri, 02/02/2007 - 5:56pm
I have known personally paddlers who were mediocre oc1ers who won channels, and guys who were brilliant oc1ers who could singlehandedly sabotage a champion crew. In the words of a legendary multiple world champion coach "put the one-mans in the rafters-it's Distance season." Generally, though, One-man time trials are a pretty good yardstick-kind of like the 40 yard dash is for football players.
#8 Fri, 02/02/2007 - 6:13pm
wow e02060, what the midpacker hate? thought that was in the other thread. but hey, to each his own.
to borrow an idea from jim, i'm sure there alot of BAD one man paddlers who can single handedly sabotoge an entire crew as well. chances are a good one man paddler has less of a chance at sabotage than a bad one man guy.
you also bring up an excellent point, put away the one man when you're in a six man....but, what do you do when there isn't anyone to train with? take out a six man by yourself? You have to get the reps somehow, no matter what craft you plan on racing.
if you plan on being the best six man guy out there, go for it. but on your way use a one man to improve yourself, it certainly can't hurt you. and if not a one man, then a paddleboard, kayak, etc.
another way to think of things, if you, or anyone else is such a great six man paddler, then picture a crew with six of you. would it be faster than six small and fit identical one man paddlers? If not, then you still have plenty of work to do. Too big to sit in 1, 2, 5, or 6? A small guy can fit in every seat. I would have to say the mark of a great six man paddler would be an idividual that you can put anywhere in a six man and still have a positive effect. That, is a GOOD six man guy.
#9 Fri, 02/02/2007 - 11:39pm
jc9, don't make me question your pedigree(haha). I was really just trying to stir up some good ol' friday night paddle talk.Honestly, when I was trim and fit, I lost my seat to a guy who I blew away on oc1, and who later was part of the record setting Molokai crew. Even back then, I knew he was a better six manner than me. I'm just trying to say that once everyone is in shape, picking the crew solely on the basis of one man time trials may not always be the way to go. The coach must reserve the right to make a decision, and the team must respect that. Also, your whole interchangeable parts theory doesn't always hold water. Some of the best crews ever, in fact the best crew in OHCRA history, had large and small paddlers sitting in size appropriate seats. Of course, all these guys were outstanding oc1ers, some of them were simply too tall for seats 1 and 5.
#10 Sat, 02/03/2007 - 4:22am
I thought we were hating.
Seriously, I acknowledge the x-factor in the 6-man and I also agree that you can't pick a 6-man crew by one-man timetrials alone. But it's rare to find an awesome 6-man paddler that isn't also great on a one-man. It's become too competitive not to put time in on a one-man.
Peace porn kisskiss whatevers... Middlepackers unite!
#11 Sat, 02/03/2007 - 12:11pm
jc9,I heard you're a paddling coach. Do you think you could smooth out your boy Goto's stroke? That would be just SUPER!
#12 Sat, 02/03/2007 - 1:26pm
his stroke was always smooth enough for me.
#13 Sat, 02/03/2007 - 3:09pm
It's interesting to note the difference between two Oc6 crews that have been selected out of 12 paddlers competing for a spot as a number 1 crew and a number 2 crew. The number 1 crew paddlers seem to accept their position in the number 1 crew and just shut up and paddle and don't cause problems. Where as the number two allocated paddlers all of a sudden become experts and point fingers at every one in their canoe as to why they are not as fast as the number one crew.
This infighting and finger pointing, obviously a result of bruised egos, makes the canoe go even slower and therefore is doomed forever to be the number two crew.
How a coach overcomes this problem is beyond me, but it seems to be common to all clubs in all countries.
Anyone else experienced this.
Cheers Rambo
#14 Sat, 02/03/2007 - 3:50pm
I've had that happen-
But the opposite is also true. Take for instance a "second" crew that has nothing to loose, and a "first" crew that does. The instant the timing and blend in the "first" crew is off, (or if it "felt bad") they freak out, point fingers and fall apart. I don't think its happend in a race with my club, but I've seen it in practice many times. It's a real mind bender when an open 5 crew beats a 6 man crew...
I suppose that is the Mental toughness aspect of paddling with 5 other people.
#15 Sat, 02/03/2007 - 4:37pm
jc9, I meant his paddling stroke.
#16 Sat, 02/03/2007 - 5:10pm
How about I smooth YOUR stroke out, Jaymbz! Why don't you come over my house, and I'll erg your face up, bee-otch!
Also, Mid-pac paddling rulz!
(...you whippersnappers better not let me down, now that I've gone on the record. Maybe if you're (I'm) lucky I'll get to come smooth out YOUR strokes later this week.)
Who's lovin' your mama? Goto!
#17 Sat, 02/03/2007 - 8:28pm
Hey can I get in on some stroke smoothing. Or smoothing strokes. Or whatevers, I want in.
#18 Sat, 02/03/2007 - 9:05pm
I was just kidding, Ellen Goat-hole. I love all of your strokes.
#19 Sun, 02/04/2007 - 1:00am
I agree that you have to have OC-1 trials, it is the best way to determine who is in paddling shape. Now you have to have crews that blend well in OC-6. OC-1 is more individual. We have had the problem of the "I have paddle for years i'm always on first crew". These clowns have no concept of Team work. And in my opnion OC-6 is a team sport.
So I say use it as a tool to judge, but see how the crews work together, to put it all together.
Paddle with Strength, PONO and ALOHA
#20 Tue, 02/13/2007 - 2:37pm
I coached rowing for four years (three at the collegiate level) after three years of rowing in college. There was truly something "special" about an eight man boat that was truly fast. It was not always composed of those who were the fastest on the rowing ergometer or the fastest in single sculls--it was based on what combination consistently moved the boat fastest. One time I put someone in the stroke seat who was not the strongest rower, but he was able to set a rhythm that allowed the other seven to excel.
So, I used to look at several things when choosing boats:
1. Ergometer tests
2. Speed in small boats (where technical and fitness flaws may be more visible)
3. Technical skill
4. Mental toughness
5. Teamwork skills
6. Seat Racing
In "seat racing" we would pit two or three crews against each other over a set course (usually 500-1500m). After the piece we'd look at the gaps between the boats and then switch two rowers and see the outcome. We'd do this several times and look at the results. Not very scientific, but at the very least it made everyone work at their top end.
I encouraged my rowers to get out in single sculls mainly because it would develop their individual skills and give them a better feel for how their technique and extraneous movements can affect the run of the boat. I think that is also valuable in outrigger.
#21 Tue, 02/20/2007 - 7:08am