Moloka'i cash prize

Doesn't matter - I think 'Flyama' has a point. I have heard lots of stories about paddlers (worldwide) using drugs to enhance their performance - and I think it sucks, quite frankly. It sets a bad example for up and coming paddlers as well, as well as obviously giving an unfair advantage. The Molokai Race is one of the most prestigious races and has a higher profile than most, so introducing random drug testing, maybe not now, but in the near future, will help clean up our sport - and provide a good example to the younger ones.

#2 Wed, 04/04/2007 - 8:25am

I've heard of and seen lots of paddlers using drugs but none of them were performance enhancing, even bud lite.

I may be naive but I just don't believe many people are using them. In addition, a whole crew would have to be using them. One person can't make the whole crew win. That said, a relatively well-known paddler was caught using them in a non-outrigger competition. I don't think he paddles outrigger very much but still eye opening.

When you think about it, 5 grand split between nine people is not all that much. I don't think the prize money would even cover the cost of the drugs.

#4 Wed, 04/04/2007 - 9:33am

Cash prizes or no cash prizes, doping controls are needed in all sports. It is not just the "super stars" who use banned substances, but the average athletes as well.

I would also say that a doped athlete on a team can have a more profound impact than we might think.

Maybe they work harder and motivate their team mates to work harder?
Maybe they promote drug use to other athletes through their capacity as a role model? Maybe if they were not on the team the impact would be greater; bringing in a new paddler to a solid team of experienced paddlers doesn't always work like a charm and the loss would be more noticeable.

Very often the doping control regulations are there to protect athletes from their own enthusiasm and desire to work hard to win. When you add coaches and support personnel willing to risk someone else's health to be associated with a win then the real problems start.

The World Anti-Doping Agency is updating their code so that doping offenses promoted by coaches and other staff (trainers, physiotherapists, administrators, etc.) punish all involved not just the athlete.

Very cool to see that new level of accountability.

And athletes who make honest mistakes, like using Sudafed or other over the counter medications containing banned substances can receive lighter penalties.

Also very cool.

And athletes, coaches or others consistently associated with doping violations OR who are involved with extensive and systematic doping programs can receive stiffer penalties for the first offense (as high as a lifetime ban for a first offense).

Good on ya WADA

#6 Wed, 04/04/2007 - 10:24am

I personally don't use performance enhancing drugs, as my mid-pack status will attest to. But I think implementing drug testing into to what is mostly a pure sport only brings negative attention. 99% of us aren't using it, so why subject everyone to the degradation? The only way to be a role model is to not use it. I don't use it and I'll make sure my kids don't use it. You can't legislate others' character. And unless you want to invest the thousands of dollars into a foolproof system, there are a thousand ways around the tests. Even the Tour de France can't get it right half the time.

And by the grace of god (and possibly food-bourne illnesses of ALL the other teams), I was to win molokai and you approached me with a needle to justify my $512 "winfall", I'd kick you right in the goolies.

#8 Wed, 04/04/2007 - 10:54am

Does drug testing really prevent the use of performance enhancing drugs? It seems that the cheaters can always stay one step ahead of the testers. In the end, drug testing is an invasion of privacy that I hope remains unnecessary in our sport.

#10 Wed, 04/04/2007 - 11:30am

I heard back in the day, the guys would drink all night in the bushes, stumble out at the crack of dawn and then race the Channel. I think we should go back to this format, or perhaps introduce a new division to the race.

#12 Wed, 04/04/2007 - 12:33pm

Doping control doesn't cover all performance enhancing drugs. That's a sad truth.

The Tour de France is a media sponsored event, so you can be sure drama and intrigue are good for the newspapers that sponsor the event. How WADA and the ICU handled the doping control was a joke, but the media love it and that is the state of the sport.

The international cycling community knows it has a problem and they are trying to clean it up and some teams have taken very commendable steps to combat drug use.

Cycling may well have dug their own grave re drug use, events had to be longer, harder, tougher. The average European pro races over 200 times a year, and races are not just 30-45 minute spins under sunny skies. Think 4-8 hours of racing every 2-3 days, all year. As a result, the press coverage has endeared the European public to their cycling heroes, who are all household names.

Outrigger doesn't have the same performance, monetary and fan pressures, but body image does play a role in the sport. A few years back a study on anabolic drug use (i.e. steroids) was done in high schools and between 10 and 20% of boys in high school said they either used or knew someone who used steroids to build an ideal physique. Doping is not just for sport, but for the culture of looking fit. Outside Magazine ran an article in 2003 on recreational athlete drug use.

Couple of other facts from the WADA code, which is the same code used by the International Va'a Federation at World Sprints;

A) When you enter a WADA covered event (i.e. IVF World Sprints) you have to sign a waiver agreeing to the terms of the WADA code. If you choose not to do a doping control for which you were selected, or fail to report to doping control promptly, you had better have an ironclad reason or your failure to will give you a 2 year suspension (not just from va'a from all sports that are WADA signatories) for failing to provide a sample when asked to.

B) No needles are used, you simply pee in a cup.

C) In the early 1980's a large number of cyclists died with blood the viscosity of jello from poor EPO administration. Thus, blood is taken in some sports where EPO may be a factor. Athletes have their hematocrit (% red blood cell by volume) tested for "health reasons" to ensure the their blood will not put too much stress on their hearts. If they "fail" (EPO use is not confirmed in this test- dehydration may also be a cause) they are given a short term suspensions after which their blood is tested again. Under the new WADA code changes athletes who fail the hematocrit test may be targeted for subsequent doping control citing reasonable grounds for suspicion.

Many athletes are proud to show they are drug free, and so should we.

i.e. top sprint kayaker Eirik Veraas Larsen lists when he went through doping control on his website.

Part publicity, part pride, part transparency.

#14 Wed, 04/04/2007 - 12:58pm

I'll leave a urine sample on the registration table next time I race. And considering they misspell my name half the time, I'm sure they'll do a crack job with complicated drug testing.

This is a conversation to have when paddling is on ABCSports every Saturday, more than a hundred athletes make their living as professional paddlers and every canoe has a sponsor's custom paintjob like Nascar. Until then, good luck conducting complicated scientific testing on amateur athletes.

#16 Wed, 04/04/2007 - 2:31pm

Yesterday I stopped at a traffic light and while I was waiting for the light to change I realized the kids in the next car were burning majiuana cigarette. I had my window down and I'm pretty sure I was "stoned" after that. I'm not going to paddle for a couple weeks just in case I am able to storm out of the back of the pack and win my first race.

You think I should toss the birth control pills too?

Drug testing is flawed, invasive and almost never accurate.

#18 Wed, 04/04/2007 - 5:27pm

"Drug testing is flawed, invasive and almost never accurate."

Sweet, then every public employee, airline pilot, bus driver, etc should go out and get loaded. We'll never get caught, and if we do, we'll just refer back to this thread.

Also, illicit drug tests have nothing to do with steroid tests.

I think if you took triple the dose of GNC type suplements you'd just end up with a huge headache and feel jittery.

How expensive is drug testing? Has anyone here ever actually paid for a drug test?

Why is it an invasion of your privacy if you are only being tested for performance enhancing drugs? If you aren't using any drugs, what the heck could anyone discover about your private life from a piss test?

Let's all just wait until things are as bad as say, major league baseball, and then try to do something. Or maybe we should shoot for bodybuilding status.

„Die Drogeprüfung ist defekt fast nie genau, Angriffs- und.“ Bonbon, dann jeder allgemeine Angestellte, Fluglinie Pilot, Bustreiber, usw. sollten geladen erlöschen und erhalten. Wir erhalten nie verfangen, und wenn wir, verweisen wir gerade zurück zu diesem Gewinde. Auch unerlaubte Drogetests haben nichts, mit steroid Tests zu tun. Ich denke, wenn du Dreiergruppe die Dosis der GNC Art suplements nahmst, die du gerade oben mit sehr großen Kopfschmerzen beenden würdest und nervös fühlen. Ist es wie kostspielig? Hat jemand hier überhaupt wirklich für einen Drogetest gezahlt? Warum ist es eine Invasion deines Privatlebens, wenn du nur auf Leistung erhöhende Drogen geprüft wirst? Wenn du keine Drogen benutzt, was könnte der Heck jemand über dein privates Leben von einem Pißtest entdecken? Lassen Sie uns alle gerechte Wartezeit, bis Sachen so schlecht wie Sagen, Hauptligabaseball sind und dann versuchen, etwas zu tun. Oder möglicherweise sollten wir für Bodybuildingstatus schießen.

„The drug examination is defectively nearly never exact, attack and. To “should expire and receive drop, then each general employee, airline pilot, bus driver, etc. loaded. We received never get caught, and if we refer, we straight back to this thread. Also bad drug tests do not have anything to do with steroid tests. I think, if you took tripartite group the dose of the GNC kind suplements, which you would terminate above straight with very large headache and to feel nervous. Is it as expensive? Did someone here at all really pay for a drug test? Why is it an invasion of your private life, if you are examined only for achievement increasing drugs? If you does not use drugs, which could discover that tail someone over your private life of a Pisstest? Let us all fair waiting period, to things as legends, main league baseball are as bad and then try to do something. Or possibly we should shoot for Bodybuildingstatus

#20 Wed, 04/04/2007 - 8:34pm

Is it an invasion of privacy when we all agree to race drug free?

We also agree to not false start, complete the course as intended, not cut people off or wash ride boats not in our category. Are on water referees watching also an invasion of privacy or is that level of distrust acceptable?

Drug testing works out to about $500 USD per athlete assuming no positive tests show up, then the costs explode as lawyers get involved for both sides.

#22 Thu, 04/05/2007 - 6:53am

Are products like Creatine/Pre-Workout Powders in this category or are we only talking about actual Steroids. I've tried Creatine before and all I got was a stomach ache, and I ended up not paddling that day. Should these products also be banned? CREATINE-CAFFIENE-NITRIC OXIDE-CYTOMAX-ACCELERADE and so on. Whether you take this stuff or not you still have to work your ass off. I think the guys in the front of the pack are there for a reason: A training ethic untouchable by the average paddler and of course natural talent. Supplements or not any individual who is that dedicated is going to do very well

#24 Thu, 04/05/2007 - 9:30am

So, uh, I'm going down to the GNC right now, and I was wondering if, well... could anyone tell me which "supplements" are really the "low-dose steroids"?
I've been taking the wrong 'roids for all these years, and wondering why I wasn't getting any faster. (Note: STEroids are waaay different than HEMMHroids)

Mahalo, AG!

#26 Thu, 04/05/2007 - 9:56am

poopoo for your poopie again throw into the worn out place thanks. but why you had to be the voice of the reason? I cracked up a reading off of all half brained theories on this thread. on another note… vaigra it should be considered than to achievement larger? for some people it really helps „with the achievement “

poopoo für dein poopie noch einmal werfen in die abgenutzte Stelle danke. aber warum mußtest du die Stimme des Grundes sein? ich knackte herauf das Ablesen aller Hälfte brained Theorien auf diesem Gewinde. auf einem anderen Anmerkung… vaigra sollte es gelten als einen Leistung Vergrößerer? für einige Leute hilft es wirklich „bei der Leistung“

thank you poopoo for once again tossing your poopie into the fray.

but why did you have to be the voice of reason? i was cracking up reading all the half brained theories on this thread.

on another note...vaigra, should it be considered a performance enhancer? for some people it actually does help with "performance"

#28 Thu, 04/05/2007 - 10:57am

I have to say that I would agree with testing, or at least random testing during the races. I would be pissed if I found out that the 50 guys ahead of me were there becuase they had taken perfromance enhancing drugs, and not because they had but in the 2 hours of training a month like I do. But seriously if I was an elite paddler I would really be upset if I was beaten by someone who trained as hard as I do but the only reason they got the edge was becuase they took some drugs. Lets keep the playing field as level as possibly, especially if we would like paddling to become a world class event.

#30 Thu, 04/05/2007 - 11:29am

proof of unreliability - not incontroverible - reasonable doubt? No doubt about it...consider

Floyd Landis and Lance Armstrong

one of my coworkers passed a random urine test and was arrested within 2 days for meth amphetimine use, we knew he was perma-fried but somehow the tests didn't

a son that smoked it out at a party and passed DOT drug screen the same day after crashing a work vehicle into a telephone pole

world sprints competitors being told not to take steriodal asthma medication, which by the way is critical therapy and enhances breathing - i.e. oxygen intake where do we draw this line?

Why do I think drug screens are unreliable? Handling, human intervention and misinformation about a myriad of compounds that can affect your blood composition. An individual that takes performance enhancing drugs knows better than most people how to play the system and are generally putting enough effort be ahead of the testing curve.

#32 Thu, 04/05/2007 - 3:54pm

If we outlaw creatine and protein supplements, I want to also recommend:
- anger
- andrenaline
- youth
- superior genetics
- better paddles than the one I'm using
- varying lines taken during a race that might give advantage
- tides, currents and wind

That should make everything fair and everyone happy. I'm going to take my Soma now (bonus points for those that know what book that references).

#34 Thu, 04/05/2007 - 6:27pm

I think people are getting way too carried away with this idea. Paddling races are basically in an adolescent phase as far as organized sports go. The races are run almost entirely by volunteers. I give them immense credit for taking their time to contribute to everyone's enjoyment and perpetuate Polynesian culture. But let's be honest, if you are volunteering to organize a race, you are usually understaffed and have a shoestring budget. The big races have limited sponsorship and still need to find new sponsers every few years. Now imagine requiring them to pay for a drug testing program, what volunteer would want to take the headaches that come with that let alone find the money to pay for it. Some of the one-man series are already having trouble sustaining themselves as the volunteers are burnt out on running things. In races I did this winter, the organizers lost my time, as well as several other people, twice. Like I said, I still give these people a lot of credit for using their free time to benefit everyone else but I don't see how a volunteer-run organization could pull off anything like this.

There are much better uses for the resources that would go into a testing program. Increasing prize money is one I can think of and comes up often. This is really only relevant to a handful of elite paddlers and probably will not do much to help with grassroots participation. Do you paddle because you think you might win some money one day? If you're like me, you paddle because you really enjoy being out in open water with good friends. An even better use is a program to subsidize purchase of club boats for smaller clubs. Our club has several beater boats that have been instrumental in getting new paddlers on the water and hooked on paddling. I'm sure other people can think of even better ideas. The fact is that the money to do any of this is not there and that's what we should be talking about.

Finally, I don't have much problem with paddling staying in somewhat of an adolescent stage. There are certainly ways to improve how things run and improve participation. I do think that with more organization comes more rules and less fun. I organized the registration for our Molokai crew this year. There were something like six or seven forms to fill out to register the crew, waivers for all the crew, waivers for the boat driver and everyone on the boat, proof of registration for the boat, etc. That's about twenty pieces of paper to fill out for one race. Now imagine collecting urine samples for all those people and dropping them off at Molokai Ranch. Oh yeah, the race organizers lost our paperwork and were giving us a hard time about even getting to race after we'd spent thousands of dollars to get us and our equipment there. After a tense half hour or so and some stinkeye sent our way, the organizers found our forms. Our folder had slipped to the bottom of the box below all the other folders.

I haven't written all of this to blast the volunteers. I can't thank them enough for what they do. I do think it's a huge mistake to place a vastly more complicated drug testing system within a volunteer-run organization. In the end, what if you found out a few people in the top crews were using drugs? I would certainly be disappointed, but it wouldn't change a thing about why I paddle and the reasons I suspect the vast majority of people paddle also.

#36 Thu, 04/05/2007 - 6:53pm

For Veronica and others who know of someone told to stop prescription medication due to doping control concerns, someone was giving you poor counsel.

Under the WADA code, all athletes who are on prescription medication for a proven medical problem can apply to continue using their medication. All they need to do is have their physician complete a "Therapeutic Use Exemption" form, aka a TUE.

Quoting the WADA site...

What is a Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE)?

Athletes, like all others, may have illnesses or conditions that require them to take particular medications. If the medication an athlete is required to take to treat an illness or condition happens to fall under the Prohibited List, a Therapeutic Use Exemption may give that athlete the authorization to take the needed medicine.

What are the criteria for granting a TUE?

The criteria are:
The athlete would experience significant health problems without taking the prohibited substance or method,
The therapeutic use of the substance would not produce significant enhancement of performance, and
There is no reasonable therapeutic alternative to the use of the otherwise prohibited substance or method.

Doping control is a positive step for any sport no matter its size. Even if it is the intent to follow the WADA code, which is where the IVF sits at this moment.

With sufficient financial resources, international sports federations can decide to become full WADA signatories. There is a fee to be affiliated, but this reduces the costs associated with doping control through access to each country's WADA affiliate; USADA, CCES, etc.

The IVF is moving towards being a WADA signatory at a speed acceptable to the IVF member federations.

The bottom line with anti-doping is being informed and knowing your rights. So take the time to be informed! If you are curious about your anti-doping knowledge take the WADA doping quiz

#38 Fri, 04/06/2007 - 3:14pm