I did a search and looked up what was written about racks and would appreciate your advice on a simple question.
I am getting a new truck and looking at different options
I am seeing a lot of rack systems for OC-1 and trucks where a rack is placed on the cab and then a rack at the rear of the bed of the truck. The purpose obviously is to get as much spread as possible between the two cradles or racks so there is more stability when strapping down the canoes. As I set up my new truck, I am thinking about this idea of a canoe strapped/locked down to the cab and also the bed of the truck. Doesn't that create a problem/torque as the cab and bed shift and move independently when going over bumps and rocks? Wouldn't that stress the canoe? Or am I completely wrong? I am sure this forum will "enlighten" me quickly.
I know trucks are made a lot better than the 74 Chevy that I used to bounce in as a kid in the bed on the back roads of Kona. And for those who don't know you are still allowed to sit in the back of a truck in Hawaii. Makes the thrills of Magic Mountain seem like a joke/wimpy, especially when friends have a few beers and drive and you are in the bed.
Rambo-Excellent Blogsite. Mahalo
Submitted by Kona J on Fri, 04/13/2007 - 11:32am
If you mount the rack on the cab and the bed you
re going to get some torquing action on your boat. Wether it would be enough to damage the canoe is doubtful. Theres usually some flex or "give" to rack systems , cradles , etc. to reduce the effect of torque on the boat. That being said , I would opt to mount the rack system on the bed only. Even with a six foot bed you still get close to six feet of separation of your cradles . If your truck has an 8 foot bed , you have plenty of spread and zero risk of torquing. My favorite cradles are the Yakima ones that bolt on using large thumb screws. They are flexible enough to reduce gust loads from cross winds and semis and yet hold the boat very securely.#1 Fri, 04/13/2007 - 12:37pm
Kanu The Rock
Kona J,
I would not worry about movement of the canoe. Modern trucks don't flex alot. I've carried canoes on trucks and find yakima style canoe gunwhale brackets work best since you can place the canoe upside down on the brackets and it rests pretty stable and flat since its contacting a flat surface on the canoe (the deck area). This would also allow you to place the bed bar pretty close to the cab since you're using the deck to secure the canoe to the brackets. I've found you don't need to have maximal separation between the bars since this set up is so stable. With cradles, the canoe moves around too much.
Aloha,
Bob
#2 Fri, 04/13/2007 - 12:42pm
I imagine the stress you put on your canoe when you bury the nose on a wave has to be much more than any stress from the racks. Canoes handle being buried pretty well so I wouldn't worry about it.
#3 Fri, 04/13/2007 - 12:54pm
I now have a midsize truck w/ a small bed. Both on my larger trucks, and on this smaller one, I have used a rack on top of the cab, and one towards the rear of the bed. I LIKE the wider seperation mounting points. I agree w/ the others that any truck torque I encounter is negligible and is absorbed by the racks, etc. I MAKE SURE that my racks are aligned straight so that my bow can cut as straight into the oncoming wind as possible. I am more worried about crosswind torque.
#4 Fri, 04/13/2007 - 1:53pm
Has anyone actually had their canoe damaged by wind torque because the racks are to close together? I've never heard of an instance in which that happened yet. Although I do know someone who's whole rack system flew off their car with their boat on it.
#5 Fri, 04/13/2007 - 3:24pm
I had some gel coat damage to my first canoe that I attribute to wind flex and a lack of distance between crossbars. The canoe sat upright is a set of foam saddleson top of a short roof car that allowed only about three fett between the bars. The bow of the canoe was like a big sail in the crosswinds. The 30-40+ mph winds that I many times travel in to get to race sites caused some stress cracks in the gel coat that required repair. That experience led me to quickly pick up a new canoe hauler, which I selected by getting a copy of a Yakima fit guide and searching for the SUV that had the lagrest recommended distance between crossbars. Luckily, my first canoe would is a glass canoe that has some flex and was solidly built.
#6 Sun, 04/15/2007 - 3:22am
TO those of you who are stuck w/ vehicles that require you to have your mounting locations close together, I have made a couple of racks that are similar to what rowers use for their rowing shells. I basically took about a 7foot length of 2x2 hollow "square bar" aluminum stock, shaped "cradles" out of flat bar aluminum stock on each end, and the whole system mounts to an existing roof rack system already on the vehicle w/ u-bolts. If you own a car, your attatchent points for your canoe are at least 7 feet apart now. can make the whole thing around here for about $60 - $70 in materials. So far works great. No guarantees in gusty conditions however (might tear a factory roof rack right off of the car!)
#7 Sun, 04/15/2007 - 4:01am
We have the dubious distinction of launching a complete rack with three OC-1s a few years back.
The Yakima "Landing Pads" and towers interfaced with the factory rail system that came installed on my truck cap.
I have a full-size Dodge truck with a 6' bed that allowed for approx. 5 feet of crossbar spread. Because of the rearward positioning of the rack in relation to the cab of the truck, it was not feasible to attach a "bow line" to the canoes as per the manufacturer’s recommendations. The "Yakima factory authorized shop employee" indicated that this would not be an issue because of the way the system was designed to work with a truck cap.
So with a small voice ticking away in the back of my head, away we went. Literally hundreds of road miles to and from races with no issues and the little voice barely a whisper, we were more than a little shocked when the whole rig came un-assed from the truck, in benign weather conditions, at 65 mph on a crowded highway near Dover Delaware. A loud bang followed by a stream of “O-my Gods†from my wife who was driving, was the only sign that there might be an issue. I glanced in the passenger side-view to see the “system†lift off and gracefully cart wheel over the compact car that was slip streaming behind the “Beastâ€, then land noiselessly (even if I could have heard above the road noise, there was no way one could hear anything over the O-my-Gods!) on the shoulder and flip into the median.
We got pulled over and jumped out of the truck expecting to see death and destruction…nothing, nada, no carnage or fiery wreck, just weekend travelers blowing by as if three canoes had NOT just taken flight on the highway!
We started laughing and hugging like a couple of idiots. No one died!!!
After we got over the giddiness we went back to the grim task of identifying the carcasses. All three canoes were still strapped to the crossbars and hopelessly trashed. At first glance we thought we might be able to salvage a canoe or even two…closer inspection revealed that all three carbon fiber torpedoes were cracked stem to stern like an Easter egg that had been rolled on the kitchen counter. (good visual?)
We took pictures on site, of everything. The truck mounts, the towers and cross bars where they lay and even filed a police report for insurance purposes/proof to show Yak. It appeared that the right rear mechanism holding the tower to the landing pad gave way where the plastic “latch†cams into the plastic pad (this pad was the only one of the four with visible damage) and the ensuing load on the rest of the pads caused a “rapid disassembly processâ€. We sent Yakima a copy of everything mentioned above, along with an engineers perspective (not an official report) of the failure and asked for replacement cost of the equipment lost. We were offered a completely new Yakima rack. Enter lawyers and time. No resolution after years of rhetoric and ignoring.
We have a Thule system now that has a cab “hard†mounted front bar and a similar rear pad/tower set-up to the Yakima system, but the Thule system utilizes all metal connectors between the two pieces.
Because the canoes can be mounted forward on the vehicle we can attach a bow line.
Ultimately we will have an aluminum, contractor style, “ladder rack†mounted to the top of the cap that will extend over the cab.
#8 Sun, 04/15/2007 - 5:58am
I've got a 77 chevy full size truck. I got a Tracrac rack and haven't regretted it once. It's expensive, but worth every cent. I have an 8' bed but use the sliding rack at about 5' or so spread. The idea is to strap the boat where it's better reinforced, around the cockpit (I keep the spread the same for my 21' surfski and 17' K1). I have the Yakima saddles and usually strap onto those, but on longer highway trips I'll put an extra seperate strap that ties directly to the rack rail. I have taken the setup through pretty bad conditions (80 mph crosswinds). Plus you can move the racks in 5 seconds when a family member needs help moving (which they all do as soon as you get a truck)...
so, unless you are getting one of those new trucks with the 3' beds or whatever, I don't think you need cab support.
#9 Sun, 04/15/2007 - 7:31am
Mahalo to everyone.
These are exactly the type of answers and perspectives I was looking for in regards to setting up a truck, and thanks for sharing some tough lessons learned. I am sure it will help many. To sum up
1) Don't worry too much about the movement between cab and bed since rack system has some give and suspensions and trucks are built much better these days.
2) Determine spread of racks, if possible, based on your individual canoe and the strength points of your canoe
3) Just as you would check your canoe for cracks and wear and tear-do the same for your rack system, parts can weaken and break.
Thanks again
#10 Sun, 04/15/2007 - 10:44am
Most of the damage i have seen to canoes in racking systems is where the canoe has 2 supports on the vehicle roof and 1 rising up from the chasis at the front or rear of the car. That is a recipe for disaster, especially if the middle support has a tiedown strap on it.
Cheers Rambo
#11 Sun, 04/15/2007 - 12:31pm