Dear Ian/Hypr Canoes,
I have been reading and hearing about your canoes for some time now and I must admit, who ever said "there is no such thing as bad publicity" has not been following the topic of these canoes. I am an above average intermediate OC1 paddler who has been paddling OC6 for going on 30 years. I have kids, I work full time, have a mortgage...in other words, I am your market. I have coached outrigger canoe paddling and owned several one man canoes. I will never win Molokai, or even be in the top ten. I would love to win it (or be in the top 10), but it is not going to happen...Once again I am your market. I have heard nothing but complaints about these canoes and complaints about Ian Foo. In listening (reading) Mr. Foo's posts, I do believe you stand behind your product (or at least are making an attempt), but for some reason you just keep digging your self a deeper hole. I have heard several (lots!!!) of people say they will not buy your canoes for one reason or another, and I think that might be very unfortunate. I want everyone to paddle. I, like many people here, think it is the greatest sport in the world. So I am going to throw this out there. I know you will likely say "no...can't do it...too expensive..." but here it goes:
You should send me a new canoe...one that you would sell to a paying customer...not a demo...not a super duper team rider boat, just a new canoe. I will review it. I will paddle it exclusively and report all problems or hopefully lack there of. I will race it and paddle it in all conditions in Northern California. I will report unbiasedly about the boat on OCpaddler.com. I will treat it as I have all previous canoes. Why me? Why not? I asked first. I am your market. I am not pro Joe...just a guy. Yes it is a $2900 investment on your part...but I guarantee that that outlay of cash is better advertising than what you are getting now. So what do you say. Let me know,
Josh Luria
luriaj@yahoo.com
Submitted by 1968 on Mon, 08/06/2007 - 1:29pm
and so the plot thickens...
#1 Mon, 08/06/2007 - 1:34pm
What 1968 said... me too. But to really get a feel, I would need several of your boats to, you know, make sure they are getting a fair shake. Not every single model, just a representative group.
Please send:
(1) Waveblade 2-man
(1) Vantage
(1) ...
Actually, I will need one of each model.
(Sorry '68, I know you were being at least half serious in your post. I just couldn't resist.)
Koors
#2 Mon, 08/06/2007 - 2:14pm
I am actually completely serious and I expected many replies like kdkoors.
Josh
#3 Mon, 08/06/2007 - 2:27pm
well.. i propose that you all send me your girlfriends and wives so I can sample them.
let me state that I am your market. I'm there to satisfy your women for you so that when you come back, they are not looking elsewhere for fun.
Completely independant studies indicate that a successful relationship and marriage requires a bit of.. freedom.. to stave off boredom and routine.
Imagine your delight when your significant other tells you tonite, "no honey... i want you to do me THIS way", and watch your sexual repertoire expand by leaps and bounds.
I also work to ensure a complete and emotionally healthy relationship with your significant others, by providing the services only an emotionally devoid, sex machine could provide. They will have their most basest, animalistic cravings satisfied, and come home begging for some loving.
Again, let me state that I am your market. I'm working for you , the man in your relationship. Need time to train? watch a game? I also provide on-call services by the hour, and am willing to entertain multiple clients simultaneously.
#4 Mon, 08/06/2007 - 3:14pm
Odie,
Be careful what you ask for....
#5 Mon, 08/06/2007 - 3:25pm
Odie,
HAHA that was just great. really had a good laugh.
I think that would be an interesting business opportunity for Ian, but hey why stop there seriously it would be great if 1968 had not only Hypr models but OC's models, Johny's models, and Kai's models as well as others to see what the average guy thinks of all of them, totally biased and uninfluenced by the manufactures or paddlers opinions. Then reports on them just as a food critic or movie critic would.
Inches to Feet to Miles Ahead, paddle hard, paddle often.
Tpoppler
#6 Mon, 08/06/2007 - 3:29pm
Tyson,
That is a fantastic idea. I would be happy to be "That Guy". But seriously, there is a lot of opinion both good and bad about most boats out there. Hypr on the other hand has very little exposure except for the bad exposure we have seen here and I have heard thought the grapevine.
I have paddled many many oc1s. If Ian Foo did give me a boat as proposed above, I would give my opinions and observations based solely on its performance and how it weathered the elements over time. I would compare its performance to other boats I have owned and paddled and attempt to give a completely unbiased view of the boat either good or bad. I think if the boat s as great as Ian states that would be awesome and I would endorse it wholeheartedly. If it sucked I would let that be known as well. We all know that bottom line it is the motor not the boat, but there are other variables for us mere mortals to concider. Comfort, durability, workmanship, and to a degree performance. Sure this is a lot to ask for Hyper, but I think if Ian ponied up a boat and let me run it through its paces for a couple years with weekly updates to the paddling community at large, it would be far better publicity/advertising that what is being presented now...unless of course the boat falls apart on me.
So I say again...Hyper, give me a new boat and let your boat speak for itself (I don't care which boat either).
Peace, Josh
#7 Mon, 08/06/2007 - 5:26pm
"What the World needs now, is love, sweet Love..." Maybe I'm not the guy to be saying this, but let's all remember that as we go forth as paddlers perpetuating this sport, we are therefore helping to disseminate Hawaiian culture and most importantly the concept of Aloha, which I believe to be one of Humanity's greatest cognitive achievements. Together, we will change the world by spreading this concept throughout the World aboard our shining Wa'a. I'll start with Ian. Come here now brother, give us a hug. Braddah needs love.
#8 Mon, 08/06/2007 - 5:31pm
The Kayak market does this sort of testing all the time, Typicaly the manufactureres will send there products to reputable testers and they will review the products in all sorts of conditions There was a great write up of this sort on surfski's just a few months back, I think it can be found on surfski.info
The kayak market also has plenty of syposiums or demo days in which the dealers pay to have there products on display and available for paddlers to try. In return they have a captive audiance that gets to try there boats side by side with other models they may be looking at. I know that we often get this opprtunity at races and practices and such, However as the sport grows there are plenty of individulas thay may not know who or what they are looking for. These demo days also have reps and builders available to talk about the products. and put to rest some of the myths. It can aldso be a time to have clinics.
i can tell you from first hand experiance that about 25% of my sales are to individuals that have never owned a one man or even paddled in a six man.
As I posted on the other thread, This sport is changing like you would not believe, There are more opportunities to make money at it. You could argue that this would be exploiting a pure sport, I would argue that yes you may be exploiting however it is to further the sport and to educate the paddlers. Setting up this sort of demo takes time and money, anyone willing to take on the task should get compinsated for that.
Also who would have guessed 20 years ago someone could make a decent part time or even full time job out of teaching surfing? There are a few paddlers now making a few extra bucks teaching paddling. Every boat I sell to Joe Nobody that has never picked up a paddle needs a teacher. Another way someone can live and work in the sport they love and never go to China.
My last statement is for Keizo, and his question of the home page about what he can do to make the site better. we have all seen poopoo bash anyone that askes the questions "which boat is better x or y" You have the audiance and the influence with the builders. lets get the boats tested and have a section on the site that compares them all,
Oh yeah and spell check would be nice.
#9 Mon, 08/06/2007 - 9:03pm
1968
That’s an interesting offer. However, we have set up several paddlers just for our research and development. These ones will be logging on to give review of the performance of different models. We ask them to give an honest report. Some of the items they will be inspecting will be overall performance. Product reliability. Cosmetics, Accessories and ocean safety. Keep on line and let’s see their independent report. Most of these guys paddled other oc-1. So they should have the experience to share common concerns. Till then just be happy to paddle
#10 Mon, 08/06/2007 - 10:34pm
just happy to paddle,
I think that is great; the problem is Hypr has obviously lost a fair amount of credibility and trust in the paddling community. My guess is that your "independent" reviewers will likely be construed to be you and Ian using aliases. This is your chance to get a truly Independent review and assessment. Just thought I would help with your up hill battle. I would hate to see you guys go under if the reputation you have as of late is unfounded.
Peace, Josh
#11 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 3:00am
Howzit?
Over the past seven years I have managed to paddle/own:
Besides the Gen 1 Hurricane that I won in a raffle, the distributors/manufacturers forwarded me their product on a “trial†basis, with a pay if you like clause.
If I could, I would love to still have most of them, but I am already pushing the envelope of reason with my wife.
Each canoe has its own virtues and vices and most of them perform as advertised.
There were some issues with fit and finish on some.
The in water performance (for me, in east coast conditions) was not what I was looking for on others.
Some I broke. Some I moved away from for no good reason.
For the most part it is the quest for the “oneâ€, and in humble retrospect, any one of the canoes on the list would work for most paddlers. I get and deserve a certain amount of good natured ribbing for my consumption and I am a bit embarrassed now. On the plus side I have paddled a lot of very good canoes!
I wouldn’t have misgivings recommending any of the brands, except for one, to anyone looking for a new boat.
The Kaku Elua is still a very fast, comfortable canoe and I got smoked by a guy in a race earlier this year on one.
The Kaimana was a one-off boat built in California and it did not meet John's QA standards. We just never re-connected for a second chance. I have paddled a Kaimana that belongs to Pittbrah and it is a perfect example of a hand-made, boutique go-fast.
Both Hukis are still on the water and they are beautiful machines. The X is propelling a new paddler around the waters off of Kent Island and he is amazingly happy.
I owe Jude more than anyone else for his lean forward generosity and Aloha. He builds beautiful watercraft and our Huki OC-2 is still our favorite canoe.
I was never comfortable, perched on top of a Hurricane, but it is the fastest canoe I have ever paddled.
The Fuze is the most comfortable canoe I have paddled to date and went like crazy downwind, but I could not make it go in our predominantly flat east coast racing conditions.
I have had the Pegasus for 2 weeks and it is an epiphany.
Goes in the flat and catches bumps very nicely.
I raced her two days after I received it and I felt very fast.
Fit, finish, weight, comfort, ease of assembly are all exactly what I would expect when dishing out $3100.
Top notch.
I want the Hypr out of my yard.
It is an abomination and I am blown away that the distributors/manufacturer let this beast get out for public scrutiny and opinion. I received a solicitation from the east coast distributors to purchase a Hypr after they got word that I was looking for a ride. They sent a couple of canoes down our way some time ago that ended up with our sister club up in Hampton Virginia. I borrowed the Makia to test paddle. After spending the better part of a day repairing rudder cables and figuring out how to assemble the iakos/ama/hull puzzle, I took a short paddle. The rudder controls are physically loose at the attachment points to the hull, they come in contact with each other and jam. The “seat?†is not. I was determined to get a feel for the hull and after modifying a Fuze seat, bungeeing the pedals, I managed to complete a 5 mile paddle. The Tiger design feels nice but it is impossible for me to determine the true capabilities of this canoe in the ocean or elsewhere without putting myself in jeopardy.
The fit and finish is in a word, nasty. The paint is bubbled in several places including the rudder, a control surface.
What looks like scratches and scrapes are painted over and the canoe is amazingly heavy.
I will reiterate: what were they thinking when they let this canoe go out for an initial impression of what you can expect from Hypr?
#12 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 3:15am
Wow yldbill,
I normally find your posts to be informative, entertaining and funny. But this last one crosses the line. In case you hadn't heard, this is a "bitching" forum where "you never hear from people that were very happy with what we do."
What you said here is not only objective and qualified, but honest enough that I would tend to believe you, even if I hadn't read anything written by you before. That sort of thing does not belong on OCPaddler.com, so I suggest you pack up your s&%t, and leave.
Here are the guidelines for what DOES make up an acceptable post - All posts need to be no less than 10,000 words, of which no more than 5 can be truthful or factual. You must include outing of other paddlers' anonymous monikers, none of which can be a real-life friend of yours. Every sentence must somehow be about yourself and how "cool" "awesome" "rad" or "committed to the customer" you are. When you use the word Aloha, you cannot actually mean it - in fact it helps if you don't even know what the word means. Also, if you are an actual outrigger paddler of any sort, please discount all of this because you cannot be one to post here. For an example: http://www.ocpaddler.com/user/ian_foo/track
That's right, I said it!
...also, since you seem to have some expertise in the field, which one-man would be the best for me?
#13 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 6:22am
Hey Yld, Not to encourage your consumptiveness(?), but you might want to try a Tiger version of Makia. Awesome boat for flats and light conditions, and also quite comfortable. I've heard it's for lighter people, but at 210-220 lbs, I found it to be plenty buoyant. Jim
#14 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 6:20am
1968
These paddlers are willing to list who they are. Most of them are just independent paddlers who have experience paddling different canoes. If this doesnt satisfy you maybe you can demo a canoe. We are in oahu if you live here im sure we can provide a demo for you to at least try.
#15 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 8:27am
Last time I checked, every canoe manufacturer had demo canoes for testing. So testing canoes, if one has the time, should not be a problem.
Here's a little bit of advice for those in the business of selling canoes: I know that demo boats take a beating but don't keep spongy, busted up canoes in your stable of demo boats. Keep them in tip-top shape mechanically or otherwise. I once sampled a canoe that was so busted up and spongy that I bought a canoe from some other manufacturer. My recommendation is that you start off with a brand new one and then after several months, swap it for a new one and sell the demo at a discount. That way, you keep your stable of demos fresh, presentable and an accurate representation of what a customer can expect to receive when he/she purchases a canoe.
#16 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 9:21am
Just happy to paddle,
I think you are still missing the point. Hypr canoes appear to have never gained the confidence and respect of the paddling community. Ian has obviously gotten a bad rap (unfounded or not, I have no idea). No one is going to trust your "Independent" reviewers. Somewhere in all the banter it was stated your demo canoes are made differently than your production models...and the "team riders" get different canoes as well. I could demo a brand new production canoe, but that will not help your reputation nor tell anyone the long term viability of their 3000 dollar investment.
Now, did I expect Hypr to send me a free canoe? Not really. But from a marketing perspective ( if the canoes are as good as you say or think) it would be a brilliant move. You would have demonstrated confidence in your product and possibly gained some of the credibility that you seem to lack. I truly wish you luck with your endevour, but you guys are definitly paddling upwind against the tide.
Josh
#17 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 10:04am
Yo Brah, stop pandering man. Have some dignity, fork out some dough and get da kanu u like. Look at me I get free canoes all the time, that's because I'm really good looking, really, not kidding. They all call me, throwing themselves at me, I don't call them, especially when she writes her number on my "you know what" the next morning, that's because I am that good - Wait ! are we talkin bout paddling ?
#18 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 10:19am
Bill,
I didn't think they would really give me a canoe. I have dignity, I have a canoe, and I'm not sure it was a "she" who wrote on your "you know what"! Peace, Josh
#19 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 10:45am
I'm getting confused on this "demo boat" issue. Is the demo boat the one that was non-kevlar and was sold by the problematic partner who shouldn't have sold it in the first place, or is it the unbreakable double-carbon layup? Or was it the one that was pounded on the rocks by big waves off Kona for 30 min. before breaking?
#20 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 11:08am
Ok, so I don't know squat about other boats but I do know I bought a HYPR Waveblade 2-man (used) and have never regretted it. I love it. I don't know where it was made or what kind of paint it has on it but it runs great and has served me very, very well in my fun time and in races.It has hulied alot and smacked against paddles, heads, and reefs. It has been used and abused (sorry, I'm not much for maintenace) and still runs like it's brand new and looks pretty good too.I realize I am in the minority but the boat suits me just fine. I guess what I'm saying is that y'all should learn to try out boats that fit your particular needs and tastes and then screw everone else and just go with your own opinion. That said, I do LOVE the fact that you asked to be Mr. Joe Shmoe Demo guy. Very creative play. I hope it works for you.
#21 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 8:34pm
i own a hypr. i think everyone who owns everything else that they think is better should give me their canoe so i can compare it to this hypr. i don't know shit so it'll be a fair honest opinion. think about it, it'll be great for your canoes street credit. i'll return them in a year. if they last then they were great. if not, oh well they sucked.
#22 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 9:02pm
cheee heee china mon!
#23 Tue, 08/07/2007 - 9:03pm
Hey Mister 1968,
Dang, I forgot in my drunken state, it was you that wrote on my "you know what" - thanks for reminding me to call you !! But really, you arenot my type, how do you say ....er ... ugly, yeah, ugly like your post.
So much fun on this forum. You can say anything you like. What are we talkin bout here anyways ? Yow ! its a bloodsport and anything goes, the more crazy da betta !!
#24 Wed, 08/08/2007 - 8:51am
Bill,
That was your "you know what"? I was looking for one of those mini post-its. Kisses, J
#25 Wed, 08/08/2007 - 9:12am
1968,
You might be right because my twin brother has that problem using mini Post Its for cover. Lots of people mix us up, I'm the better looking one, he's the one with big ears and mini post its. I'll pass your kisses along to him.
[name removed by admin]
For Whom Women swoon over
#26 Wed, 08/08/2007 - 9:20am
1pado2pado,
good advice, good to know you your having fun with your hyper canoe. wish you well see you in the water.
wendelee17
You go girl. two-mans are the way to go. Lot of fun out in the water. if you need to demo other canoes just give us a call.
To everyone else,
Hope you having fun in the water. invitation open to any who should give hyper a chance. willing to demo at anytime you are available.
#27 Wed, 08/08/2007 - 12:02pm
So what do you think of this "Bill Gasset" guy?
I think that this conversation on a demo Hypr has taken an extremely bizarre twist…someone is imitating me and using my name in a most unsavory manner.
I ignored the first posting as I was fairly confident it was just an ill attempt to get me riled up. I sent a personal message to the author that started this thread, to apologize for someone else’s bad taste and also sent a very clear message to whoever is using my name to stop.
Maybe I wrote something in my first post describing my subjective opinion of several canoes and that upset one or more people. And maybe one of those people thought that this is the appropriate way to respond.
That is a shame.
If this person thinks for a split second that we all don’t know who might perpetrate something as asinine as call yourself someone else and then act like a complete idiot…then maybe I might just buy a Hypr.
Before that happens, the nails are being driven into a box of someone’s own making and the lid will be sealed shut, permanently.
That is about as ugly as the real Bill Gassett will ever get.
And I apologize publicly to anyone that might have been offended or hurt by words that weren’t mine.
Mahalos and Aloha
#28 Wed, 08/08/2007 - 2:20pm
Bill, i don't think anyone thought it was you, it was pretty obvious that it wasn't. Just in case the perpetrator doesn't realize, Keizo could always check the site log for the IP address and identify or ban the culprit. Being anonymous is fine, pretending to be someone else is not.
Your reputation is intact Bill, carry on Mate.
Rambo
#29 Wed, 08/08/2007 - 4:04pm
Although I respect the rights of individuals to remain anonymous online, it's unfortunately that someone would hide behind that anonymity to attack or mock others in a malicious manner. I personally avoid being anonymous for the shear fact that it emboldens individuals to say things they would otherwise not. It's like talking behind someone's back. If you don't have the integrity to say it to their face (or at least with your real name), you probably shouldn't be saying it. But as stated, I respect the choice to remain anonymous, especially when an individual desires to voice an HONEST opinion without fear of backlash.
/insert sarcastic joke here.
Koors
#30 Wed, 08/08/2007 - 4:20pm
This thread is closed as well.
#31 Wed, 08/08/2007 - 6:02pm