We would like your thoughts for the Catalina Challenge OC-1/ OC-2 relay. We are trying to get costs down and participation up. One idea we are throwing around is to have the race on Saturday, Start time later (12:00) to allow paddlers to come out with there escorts or on the ferry. A later start time also will help with the wind, This past year we had about 10 paddlers from Hawaii, what would it take to get the Hawaiian guys out to California to race? We understand that a Saturday race would have many effects on the race as well as travel, Let us know how it would impact you, good and bad. The race is tentatively scheduled for March 30.
Submitted by OceanOhana on Tue, 09/18/2007 - 6:03pm
Warm up the ocean... and add bumps to it... then they will come.
#1 Wed, 09/19/2007 - 8:39am
I personally would be stoked to see this race start later so that we can take advantage of the wind. Only problem may be the boats that take 6 7 or 8 hours to finish the course. I'm not sure how they're working out daylight savings this year but it could be near dark by the time some people finish. Less time at Hennesy's after the race. As far as having the race on Saturday I don't see any major disadvantage. Probably because I live in So Cal so transportation isn't an issue and neither is getting to work.
#2 Wed, 09/19/2007 - 5:08pm
have a three day window for the event pick the best day on which its the windiest.
#3 Fri, 09/21/2007 - 12:24am
I think Ocean Ohana's point was to bring costs down and get participation up. Having a three day window means you have to be ready to go at the drop of a hat, ie three days off work, fly from HI three days early? No one from Hawaii is going to bother with that, taking three days off to paddle in cold water when you can do a killer Maliko run? NOT!
#4 Fri, 09/21/2007 - 10:06am
As far as getting more Hawaii guys...maybe a prize purse? For each devision?
#5 Fri, 09/21/2007 - 4:05pm
For the paddler and his trip over to the Island, one thing we did was have our guys load up the canoes on the chase boat, so we did not use the shiping container. OceanOhana How would the cost go down if the race was on Sat? I agree with nem0, have a BIG PURSE to bring more participants.
#6 Fri, 09/21/2007 - 8:28pm
Is it possible to do land based changes, that will reduce costs dramatically?
Sometimes it's best to create a race using the unique conditions and surroundings rather than duplicate an existing race elsewhere. Paddlers will then "do the race" for this uniqueness and if you're lucky, a legend will develop around it. (think MoloSolo, Maliko, Hawaii Kai, Super Aito etc ..)
All the Great races have their own identity and some are discontinued before they have a chance to develop .... i.e. Hamilton Island (round the island race for OC1/2). You can experience every condition imaginable in this 16km circumnavigation , yet the organizers chose to scrape it rather than budget for increased safety. Now it's just a sanitized out and back with no "ball" factor.
Sorry to get off track OceanOhana, i guess what I'm saying is, identify what the potential is with the Catalina Race and the type of paddler you want to attract, then promote, promote, promote.
If i can draw an analogy here .. the Noosa Triathlon is a shitty swim in a shallow canal, a very ordinary cycle and a so-so run, yet it's uniqueness attracts 5000+ every year and they limit the numbers.
Not sure I've been of any help but might get the creative juices flowing.
Cheers Rambo
#7 Fri, 09/21/2007 - 8:53pm
How 'bout around the island?
#8 Sat, 09/22/2007 - 1:24am
The reason a lot of people skip the Catalina race is because it's almost always 40 miles of flat nothing. It's like being on a paddling erg for 6 hours. Catalina's beautiful and Dana Point is nice, but why that particular direction? Run something down the coast with bumps and no need to take a ferry or ship your kanu. Cheaper, more fun.
#9 Sat, 09/22/2007 - 3:49am
Stage race from catalina to dana to oceanside? Two day event, not necessarily cheaper but has some appeal to it. Since I will not likely be fast enough to be in the prize money I like the races that hand out more loot for participating (trunks, jersy, whatever else).
#10 Sat, 09/22/2007 - 7:08am
Catalina is a great race and I wouldn't change a thing. The water is cold but so what...Hawai'i people have our warmer Pacific to enjoy year around so a little cold never hurt anyone, right?
A suggestion for getting Hawai'i crews to come is to offer a prize for your race in one of our races over here. For example you could offer the winning men and women crews from the Liliuokalani Race in Kona free entry and escort for your race. You could also throw in a competitive boat for the winning crews to use. Logistics and money are the hard things for us to overcome coming from Hawai'i so if you would like to see competitive crews participate in your great race I would suggest giving them the insentive by taking care of some of the logistics (escort boat and canoe) and money issues (entry fee).
I love doing Catalina...don't change the race...it is perfect!
Mikala
#11 Sat, 09/22/2007 - 7:32am
I remember seeing some footage of what they called a "dunes run", bumps looked sweet. Is that so cal?
#12 Sat, 09/22/2007 - 10:50am
Cheers Rambo. The changeouts down the coastline sounds great.
Cali has such a nice shoreline, with conditions to make it interesting. Rather than crossing a somewhat uneventful mass of water from Catalina, the coastal waters can provide the technical conditions water folk crave.
I'm not an elite, but I can't imagine the upper crest wouldn't appreciate the added difficulty and challenge.
#13 Sat, 09/22/2007 - 4:09pm
We could have a sick downhill race off the coast of Washington. Fall/Winter/Spring feature almost constant southerlies in the 20-30 kt plus range. The problem would be finding a safe place to start and finish. Maybe Wilapa bay to Grays Harbor?
#14 Sat, 09/22/2007 - 4:59pm
I appreciate the feedback and please keep it coming, One way having the race on Saturday keeps cost down is that because most (98%) of all the hotels and condo's in Avalon require a two night stay, A Sat start could allow paddlers to come out on the fairy and avoid staying in Avalon. Although we could do this on Sunday however this could make Monday work rough. Also makes travel harder for out of town paddlers., A late night Saturday allows Sunday for recovery,. I do like e2california's two day idea, although I would be hard pressed to make it a two day race, It could easily be done in an informal manner.
Rambo if you didn't figure out by now Catalina is an Island and land based changes are not possible, A few years back Tim Dougherty of Team California did have a summer series of land based change races. They were great races. This is something we are looking at doing either next summer or possibly leading up to Catalina.
A prize purse is obviously something we would love to offer. However it is tough to get cash from sponsors. especially in a sport that has limited numbers and even more limited spectator visibility. The best way to get sponsors and money is participation, if you as paddlers want the sponsors and money the best thing you can do is support your local races. It is much easier for a race dirctor to get money from sponsors when they can show increasing numbers of particpants.
Another big issue is six man paddling, I know Luke brought it up a few years ago about switching the seasons, A great idea from a OC-1 point of view, but not realistic for many reasons, However the sport is growing at such a great pace that it wil soon be able to sustain itself on it's own in the summer and have little if any impact on OC-6. A great amount of buyers of OC-1 have no intentions of paddling OC-6, They want to paddle during the summer and race but unfortunatelly at this time there are few races for them,. Hopfully this will change.
Raceing around Catalina would be a great race, it has been paddled and takes two days I believe.
We have though about doing a Saturday race in Avalon prior to Sunday's relay, This could give the event a bit more bang for the buck, also it could get a little exposure if the city would allow us to runa course that had good spectator visibility.
#15 Sun, 09/23/2007 - 10:57am
I think you're right on about OC-1 sustaining itself in the summer. I can see my days of 6-man limited and waining simply because of the logistics of team practices, boat-towing, loading, un-loading, the lack of steersmen vs paddlers, etc. The one-man will soon be my only form of paddling and a summer series would be fantastic.
#16 Sun, 09/23/2007 - 12:46pm
That'll be fine if the only goal is a big turnout. The elite guys will always be doing oc6 at that time, though. Maybe have a big one-man race when all the paddlers are gathered for the six man race, like Kona.
#17 Sun, 09/23/2007 - 1:14pm
not to rain on the parade, but lets remember the roots of the sport before throwing out 6man. I can definitely relate to the "1man 1plan" attitude, but ohana keeps us balanced, and you need the "6man 1plan" mindset to learn anything. New 1man paddlers or "buyers" as you call them, have the freedom to do as they choose of course, but should be schooled on the culture and origins of the sport. Lets not let this sport go the way of surfing, where theres a huge majority of takers and a few minority who give back.
Sorry, went off topic here, but a couple comments compelled me to check yourself before you wreck yourself.
malama pono my bradahs...
#18 Sun, 09/23/2007 - 10:24pm
nem0,
I think you're missing my point. There was a day when all of the issues I mentioned plus career and family would have simply meant I stopped paddling. Many good friends have. The one-man allows me and many of my other friends to stay on the water and connected to each other. 6-man shouldn't feel threatened by it.
And I don't see how paddling one-man disconnects me from "ohana." You've obviously never been to a one-man race. The people there are ohana -probably more so because they are more committed than the often fair-weather, weekender crowd of 6-man. We celebrate paddling while our kids play.
The type of boat is no more and no less part of the tradition. It's the people. And one-man keeps more people in the game.
#19 Mon, 09/24/2007 - 4:26am
I've been six maning since I was ten years old but if it weren't for the oc1 I'd definately be paddling a lot less if at all. I agree with Nem0 that it would be nice if all the newcomers to paddling had the appreciation of the six man roots of the sport, but that oc1 sure makes it all way more convenient.
#20 Mon, 09/24/2007 - 5:08am
i agree that things can be misunderstood by reading typed text vs having a conversation. ie: you assume i don't 1man.
I also agree with the ohana at 1man races, tight knit group plenny aloha. You cant deny the convenience of making your own practice times and the stoke you get from being solo on the ocean, list goes on.
From there its easy to drop 6man, and thats my point. I agree with everything your saying, but it takes an effort to keep the tradition part of your life and make the sacrifices necessary. When your part of a crew, your part of something more then yourself, you are all sacrificing for each other....thats the ohana im talking about.
e02: Not putting anyone down, just don't give up on 6man, your crew needs you
#21 Mon, 09/24/2007 - 9:29am
Hey Ocean Ohana - Please don't do anything to change or jeoparidize the oc-6 season. It is still the heart of the sport in my mind.
I agree with comments that the Catalina race needs to be changed. I have done it three time and won't do it again because it is costly being on Catalina and getting support boats out there has always been a problem. The water is not good enough consistently to have such a long race. it's kinda boring( sorry)
I think down the coast race would be fun - maybe change it up and have 2 diffrent race lengths to attract more paddlers. The San Juan challenge does that up in Washington, a little for everyone.
good luck with this - and I look forward to what you come up with.
#22 Wed, 09/26/2007 - 5:42pm
coastal race series suggestion
pt. mugu to dume 16 miles
pt. dume to will rogers 16 miles
pt. dume to marina 20 miles
cabrillo run
etc.
all are killer runs w/ conditions
#23 Wed, 09/26/2007 - 7:34pm
I must say I am a bit humbled to think that you feel I have enough pull in the sport to jeopardize the OC-6 Season, I am not sure you read my last post right, There are a lot of new OC-1 paddlers that have never paddled OC-6, and more than likely will never do so, For many it is the time commitments, others maybe there type A personalities that don't play well with others, or they just don't live where there are OC-6 teams. I have seen the Wavechaser summer series do quite well running Sunday afternoon races that do not hamper the Saturday OC-6 race. They draw big numbers and I expect them to grow exponentially over the next few years. I would like to see similar races in So cal during the summer, Either on Sunday's or Off weekends, Weather I do it or someone else does it I think you wil find that one day there wil be sufficiant numbers in OC-1, OC-2, Surfski, Stand up, and paddleboards that there will be Saturday races that may draw a few paddlers away from OC-6 but are primarily made up of NON OC-6 paddlers. In fact this is already the case, however in very small numbers, Many Kayak races, paddleboards and Lifeguard Compititions that are already in existance allow and have people paddling OC-1's,, Right now it is Not Danny, Karel, or any other big names, and probably not even the middle of the packers. But they are there, and will continue to grow. I would also put out that in the next 5 years there will be a top paddler emerge that never paddled six man, The sport can't and should not be contained to OC-6. And although that is where most of us came from my guess is that the first OC was not a six man, probably a dug out single fishing boat, similar to the one on this site that is always on the Picture of the day.
And since my company is legally OC-6 Unlimited, LLC. it is tough for me to forget where I cam from. Not that I would want to, I consider myself the luckyst person on this site, Each and every day I am involved in Outriggers, Without all of you and the rest of the Ohana I would not have food on my table.
So having said all that, Pullingwater you can rest assured I have no intentions to harm the OC-6 season, I do however have plans to enrich the OC-1 Summer paddling. I would agree that the Catalina race can be a bit boring, I do feel that in some respects racing should be more about the race than the conditions, That some races be about the challenge or the competiion. That is one reason I am trying to get numbers up. There is a certain feeling that the top guys get when you are battling for the lead, There is another feeling that the middle of the pack paddler gets when you are all alone in the middle of a big sea, This front of the pack feeling is why I choose to take the abuse on the Beach and raced the short course,. I know that I can paddle with the boys, but be in the middle of the pack with few if any paddlers around me, Or I could lead the pack in the short course and know what it feels like to win, And with greater numbers there are more battles within the race.
OK that should be enough for you all to chew on.
#24 Thu, 09/27/2007 - 4:28am
If it's difficult to get cash purses, offer great awards, participant gifts, and other product donations from paddling companies.
Since the island is too big to go around in a single day, why not do a half island race? From the bay on the other sire of the island (forgot the name) to Avalon. Then we can party in Avalon after race and catch the ferry back the following afternoon. We arrive on Friday, race Saturday, and leave Sunday fulfilling our Catalina minimum stay requirement.
#25 Thu, 09/27/2007 - 2:55pm
hahaha, you're a classy guy OceanO... im sure someone is chewing on the thought of taking you on in the short course now ;)
dacho... I think you called it, I had asked earlier about a downwind run in cali that I had seen on video, you mentioned "dume" and it wrang a bell. From what I remember, nice deep, open ocean, clean swells. Sound right?
I would like to try that run forshizle, maybe take the kids to dineyland while im at it.
#26 Thu, 09/27/2007 - 8:42pm
Hi Ocean Ohana,
Thanks for posting this question. I am going to skirt the question of OC1 vs. OC6 entirely (!) and just respond to your original question.
I am not sure how to get the big guns from Hawaii and elsewhere to the race. I certainly appreciate that it's very difficult to get a sponsor prize purse for a race where spectators see folks head into the distance for 3 minutes or return for 3 minutes, and not much else!
For punters like myself, I know I have been considering coming out to this very race. I found the logistics somewhat daunting and it is hard to find information about the race online. For example, it's hard to know how to handle the logistics of getting your boat to the race, how to find a good escort boat, what characteristics to look for on the boat, how to best do efficient frequent exchanges, etc.
Fortunately, I recently met someone from down your way who has done the race and was extremely helpful in offering advice, offering to put my friend and I up in your area and orient us on the water during a weekend visit, help us find an escort boat, etc. The outrigger community is wonderful!
But it was hard, before that, to find the info to even decide whether to participate. So I would suggest a really simple one or two page F.A.Q. on racing the race, timeline for the race, etc., online, bearing in mind that many of us who are newer to the sport don't yet have the local connections that can prep us with info about racing.
V
#27 Fri, 09/28/2007 - 4:34pm
valerie, we do have the information at www.catalinachallenge.com. It has not been updated since last year however I think you will find the info you are looking for. I am sorry you did not find it in the past, I have been trying very hard for the past three years since I took the race over from Tim, For out of town paddlers we have plenty of escort boats and can help you get canoes and anything elseyou may need. We hope you can make it out in 2008, It wil be bigger and better than before. I promise.
#28 Fri, 09/28/2007 - 5:05pm
OceanOhana,
Concerning your original post about “trying to get costs down and participation upâ€, unfortunately I don’t have any thoughts on making the event more cost effective, I just budget accordingly for those races I really want to do, but I can help you with regards to actually getting participation up. A small group of OC1 paddlers I train with are planning on participating in the Catalina Challenge OC-1/ OC-2 relay next year, so participation should be up at least a ½ dozen paddlers over last year!
Regarding OC1 vs. OC6 comments: I enjoy all aspects of outrigger canoeing, 9-man change-outs, short distance, long distance, irons, sprints, etc, BUT, it is OC1 that I am enjoying most and would welcome more OC1 races in the summer. I anxiously await your proposal on enriching the OC1 summer paddling season.
Steve Rongonui
#29 Sun, 09/30/2007 - 12:53pm