From what I have witness in all my years of paddling is that the paddler that is more "talented" will most likely lose to the paddler that trains hard. Unlike certain sports like surfing and most sports the paddler that is more experienced doesn't stand a chance against a paddler that rains hard. so what does having "talent" give you? NOTHING! Paddling is a sport unlike most others as you can not get by just by talent alone. You have to put in the time. The interesting part is when conditions are less that ideal, sometimes the guy or girl with "talent" can overcome the "trainer" but it's rare. The fact of the matter is that the person who trains hard eventually becomes "talented" and that negates the whole argument of the experienced paddler who has gotten by on talent alone. There are a few exceptions like Kea Pai'aina who can drink beer for beer with a pilute like me and still show up and mop the competition on any given day. Basically what I am saying is I salute those who train hard and make great strides. Everytime I am in a race I am reminded of these type of individuals. Their dedication and day to day effort to exceed in this sport does not go unnoticed at least to me. Like today, there was a race and I heard that 5 to 10 guys where planning a one man run tomorrow. I will be sleeping while these warriors will be building their base. All I can say is keep it up and you will be the men that will bring the title back to Hawai'i (Molokai). I just wish I had the wherewithall to do what you do. I would like to see what other paddlers think. What is better? Talent or Training.
Aloha
Submitted by kekoa on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 12:33am
What about Luck ?
#1 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 12:46am
Kekoa,
They both matter, especially in an event like Molokai. Athletes that have higher aerobic capcity (a bigger motor) have an advantage over those of us who are not naturally talented.
Perhaps a better way to describe it is being "gifted" physically. Think of it like this: you are 6'6" and I'm only 6'1", you will have a natural advantage on the basketball court, even if I train harder. This does not mean that I won't be able to beat you, it just makes it a little harder.
Same thing with paddling. If a talented paddler trains hard and is focused, he/she will be very hard to beat. If they take their talent for granted then it's another story :)
Raphael
#2 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 3:18am
There’s many ways to the top. All our ancestors developed there own way’s and they all can work if you put your heat in it. But training is always present . I have noticed third and fourth generations have natural abilities that give them a head start . What you do for everyone is best for yourself. you need a sounding boards to work with the other guys go 10klm and you go11klm then one of them do 12klm and someone does 13klm then you do 14klm and so on and on. And it really helps if your best friends.
with all due respect to all of you.
chillaxin
#3 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 7:19am
This one time, when the wind was blowing real hard, I went 15 klm. I am best friends
#4 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 7:32am
Third and fourth generations? Are you suggesting that a few generations of paddling will confer some genetic advantage to subsequent generations? Maybe after about 10,000 generations or so-like the Tahitians!
#5 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 7:35am
No genetic advantage can play a role here. What you learn during your life doesn't tranfer into genes that your child can inherit.
It's more about a cultural advantage. My father is a golfer and my mother has never been into sports. The rest of my family play basket-ball... So when I was 3 yrs old no one did put me in a canoe. That something in discovered later, when I was an adult... It's clear that someone born in a paddlers family has some sort of advantage.
#6 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 8:38am
Kekoa,
What is talent? In my mind if someone is more talented than the average "whoever/whatever", then that person by definition is better. No?
#7 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 8:44am
My take on it: an olympic gold medalist swims x 16 more effective than a beginner.
Talent = good biomechanics
Real talent = ideal biomechanics + superior desire
Experience = good technique = efficiency
A fitting boat = efficiency
Less weight = less drag
It's right, if you do well, you are a 'talent' = while you are young
If you do well, you are 'experienced' = when you get older
If you do well, you 'worked hard' = when you are envied
Strength/endurance races always need a lot of preparation; I perceive the performance in paddling like a mix between road biking and swimming;
you can't do well in any of these sports if you do not constantly practice them.
Will Ryan win an olympic medal in kayaking ? I like to think he will, but the desire has to be superior to everyone elses. Why do I think it ? Because he sets performance records when he races, i.e. he is better prepared than anybody before him.
#8 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 9:17am
talent is a person's gift or skill but. Training refers to the acquisition of knowledge, skills, and competencies as a result of the teaching of vocational or practical skills and knowledge that relates to specific useful skills
I googled wikipedia encyclopedia
hahaha
#9 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 9:22am
Everytime this nature vs. nurture thing arises I can only conclude that it is virtually impossible to seperate biological/genetic and environmental/behavioral factors. I remember an anthropology prof. at UCLA referring to it as a "false dichotomy".
#10 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 9:37am
You can have all the talent in the world. Its' what you do with it, that matters.
#11 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 11:37am
mulus, at last i understand you.
my .02
In my humble opinion...
Talent is an imaginary made up excuse for the guys that get beat by the best. Everyone has the potential to be "talented" at something. Those that DECIDE to put in the work will be better. Sure there people point out what they feel are exceptions like Shaq in the NBA. Sure, he has size attributes that give him the opportunity to be good at basketball. That said, if he was a lazy schlep, he never would have been a potential hall of fame center.
I would have to say that talent belongs with ideas like destiny. It is some amazing power that is floating out there in the mysterious ether. Then it is magically delivered on the back of a unicorn by a leprechaun to the select and righteous few that were born into the line of kings.
#12 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 1:24pm
jc9, you have a talent for writing some inspiring stuff! I'm still waiting for my leprechaun saddled unicorn to arrive and bestow a talent to me...
Seriously though, kekoa's right when he says, "the person who trains hard eventually becomes talented†Isn't that what we mean when we say talented? Someone who's a great paddler, but appears to not train as much/as hard as you?
It's all about efficiency.
#13 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 12:40pm
What about the size of your Goto? If you just have an average size Goto, like me, can you rise to the top with lots and lots of really hard work?
#14 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 3:40pm
I’ve seen what Jim said happen in a races were two crews are fighting neck and neck and one crew takes a different line taking into consideration tides and currents and walk’s away. And the crew that lost could be trained better it helps to have knowledge. even a single wave can turn things around. Like Goto said
watching for whitecaps
#15 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 3:42pm
The size of your goto is inversely related to the size of your boto.
Work it!
#16 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 6:27pm
and it wouldent hurt to spend ten hours a day on water ether
#17 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 8:16pm
Talented paddlers can get by with a minimum amount of training if they are competing against paddlers with no talent and try to succeed by training harder. I have coached paddlers who started the season as a Nov. B, no experience at all, and ended the season by being on the winning Molokai crew. On the other hand we all know paddlers who can train all day, every day, and will never win a race. In every sport you need a certain amount of talent to reach the top. That is why sporting teams have coaches, to recognize athletes who have "talent" and to help them transfer this talent into achievement. At the highest level of competition where everyone is talented, the individual or team that can train intelligently with a high degree of motivation will usually be successful. The individuals or teams with high motivation and intense training regimens , but no talent, will always fail. That is why you have 2 hour marathon runners and 6 hour marathon runners. There is a very wide gap in talent levels.
#18 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 8:30pm
Ive notice recently how a 1man paddler with no paddling/ocean experience can dominate talented paddlers because of their marathon running background. A more developed cardio system and a base that would take a long time to build in 1man paddling. They also seem to have all the time in the world to train....go figure.
Don't get me wrong, I do not consider myself "talented".....yet ;)
At the end of the day, why do we race? To win??
My respect goes to our talented paddlers more then who wins a race. Mostly because of the principles they hold that help shape their talent.....specifically their love and respect for the ocean, connecting with it and being part of it everyday.
So chin up koa... no worries if you never get time to train right now.... go run ;)
#19 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 9:04pm
I have very little talent, nor do I train very hard and I do very poorly. Does this help the discussion? Thought it would help.
Poops
#20 Sun, 12/16/2007 - 10:32pm
thanks poop's
#21 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 8:06am
Poopalicious, we're talking training hard, not hardly training or training while hard.
I still think people's bodies may be built to paddle or run, so they are genetically predisposed to success. But if they do not train, they do not use this advantage they are born with. Perhaps people regard this as talent. I would think this is just inherited genetics.
BTW, check out this new definition I found in the dictionary. Think I need to get me some talent of my own.
talent |ˈtalənt|
• informal people regarded as sexually attractive or as prospective sexual partners : most Saturday nights I have this urge to go on the hunt for new talent.
#22 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 9:42am
jcnizzle, what is a good paddling physique? I've seen everything from 7 foot string bean types to almost midget status people succeed in paddling. What are the genetic attributes that predispose someone to being a good paddler? It seems like almost anyone can become a really good paddler with hard work and dedication. Take Goto for example-short, uncoordinated and funny looking but one hell of a paddler. Please explain.
#23 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 10:29am
bingo jimothy, the point i made in my first post on this topic.
wurk = gud 99% of the time
#24 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 10:40am
That being said, I agree w/ Tommy Conner also, because, well, he's Tommy Conner. Quite possibly the greatest paddler of all time, ladies and gentlemen. It's like Brett Favre talking shop w/ everyday football fans. T.C., I realize you're a humble man, but how many Molokai Hoe victories do you have?
#25 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 10:52am
And would you say you have a favorite or particularly memorable Molokai victory that stands out for you?
#26 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 10:58am
So what is better Talent or Training? talent is a person’s gift or skill and if you do not have the gift how do you up the skill?
#27 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 11:23am
Surfing downwind runs in the canoe needs more talent or technique than flat water paddling. Someone with high surf talent or technique and only in reasonable cardio shape can beat someone in phenomenal cardio shape if the downwind run is big enough. Someone with high talent but mediocre cardios can't beat the hard training athletes in flat water except for maybe a sprint before the heart gives out and lactic acid burn kicks in. This statement on flat water paddling only refers to one man canoe and not to six man canoe where flat water paddling takes a lot of technique to get good timing. In one man canoe, if you are a big gorilla with good cardios then you will kick most peoples asses with very little talent. Good example is this: No matter how hard you train you will never beat Karel Jr. in a big surfing run, ever. He has a natural surf talent that cannot be overcome until someone comes up the ranks with more natural talent. Just my two cents.
#28 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 11:43am
mr deese! you're back!
too windy to surf the island today?
#29 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 11:51am
An additional thought on the surfing talent. Surfing talent can be developed but only to a point. There is kind of a peak of surfing talent and after that it only improves slightly or not at all. Same with the cardios for flat water. Flat water talent can be developed faster by getting in shape but there is a peak of efficiency that your body can get to if you train super hard. Some people have naturally high cardios. They can produce way more oxygen through their body than the average person. Good example is the sherpas who climb Mt. Everest. Some of them can climb to the top with no oxygen. This a good excuse for why the super paddlers always beat you no matter what you do. Might as well just cruise, drink beer and enjoy being average because then no more pressure to do good.
#30 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 11:53am
Yeah jc90, too windy for surfing, gotta paddle. I only paddle the 25-35 mph days so I can feel good about myself. Eh, we gotta go do the standups when it's not so windy.
#31 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 11:56am
I think Deese wins this argument. As much as you want to think training will make you fast, Karel Jr. will always be in front of you. Talent wins, you can't beat it.
Years ago if you worked hard you would win. Nowadays with ever joe, larry and moe paddling, the law of chance kicks in and there's going to be someone that has more talent than you. If that person trains as hard as you, you f'ed. F'ed and look at his back.
So be average, normal and have fun and poop a lot.
Deese wins this one.
#32 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 12:43pm
so poopsie, all those ILH and state races you won in the past were because you were more talented than everyone else, not cause you worked hard or trained, right?
deese, as soon as my board comes back from the glasser and I finish my paddle, we're out there!
#33 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 1:16pm
Karel used to do three Hawaii Kai runs a day on Saturdays; first at 0900 am, next at 1100 and, next at 1300 pm. Up to 70 a year.
When he had mastered that, he went on to do the same on the Makaii Pier route. Lactate moitored trainings program.
One thing I always find intriguing, not only in paddling: there is something 'between the lines' - the inklings - that you can only learn by doing.
If someone like Jim Foti has been paddling for 30 years, how do you want to compete with that huge amount of experience ? How do you want to read the ocean like him ? Even if you win, you can't catch that.
"people ask me : why do you paddle ? - 'because I like to paddle !'
Quote from 'On the water'.
#34 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 1:53pm
Talented or not, the important thing is you give it your best shot, your personal best.
Winning the race is just a small part of the result, the journey to be the best you can be is never ending and the most enjoyable part.
When you seek out info and put it into practice and improve, that is a huge personal buzz and spurs you on for more of the same.
Talent alone won't win the big races, someone will always come along who wants it more and beat the talented paddler because they are usually the hardest to motivate and need stimulating often.
Never, underestimate the underdog .....
Cheers Rambo
#35 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 2:39pm
one of my fathers sayings was (theres always somone better).an as a youth that would anger me.thats not the capatalist dream. if I work hard i can do it.mabey it is in the douing and not the results and I will win a battle now and then and that big race of life will never end. I just hop to be able to do the Molo one day.
#36 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 5:53pm
I think we all have our motivations, much of them related, but at the same time unique.
ie
eckhart: "Because I like to paddle."
Rambo: "Be the best I can be".
It would be an interesting thread to see the different explanations to the loaded question "Why do you compete in one man season?"
#37 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 5:55pm
Damnit Jc9 you had to throw a monkey wrench in that one.
I admit that I have very little talent. At one point in my life I worked really really hard. so frick.
The conclusion that I have some to is: VOODOO
Doing well is complete voodoo. Thats all there is to it. You can train your ass off and then do super sh!tty and then not train so hard and win.
VOODOO.
POOPOO
#38 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 6:26pm
the rush is why
#39 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 7:09pm
My two specialties are monkeys, wrenches, and lotion.
Go figure...
#40 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 7:10pm
I believe some people are more athletic than others. Many of us came from an athletic background. With this came training discipline, focus, and of course a body equipped for hard work. When this is applied to any sport it will help you succeed quicker than anyone who does not have this type of background. I also believe persons with a watersport background build an advantage. So, a person that played football and basketball and surfed or kayaked would have a clear advantage to anyone who had no such background when paddling. Of course, there are exceptions, I am sure there are "naturals" out there. But most common are those with an athletic background in High School and and water knowledge gained through years of being in the ocean. Take a look around at some of your friends who are doing well (yourself included) who has a work ethic built from years of athletic training. Then who has applied it the quickest. If all you ever did was paddle, that is obviously a great advantage. Now, if you were good or even great in sports it probably meant you were quick to apply your athletic abilities. This labeled you "talented". So, athleticism + quick application = talent and, work ethic+ water knowledge and water time= trainer. Conclusion: to be the best, you need both. To what degree each ingredient is needed, I dont know yet! Personally, I would rather paddle and fish for mahimahis and onos.
#41 Mon, 12/17/2007 - 11:00pm
Does coaching fall under training or talent? I have found good coaching to be key in my own development & I've also seen crappy coaching hold an otherwise "talented" paddler back on more than one occasion.
Is technique part of training because you have to practice it to get it right, or does it fall under talent because you have to have the sense to realize when what you're doing isn't working (in spite of what the coach says)?
#42 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 9:36am
It is the coaches job to recognize talent even when it may not be obvious, and develop it to its full potential. Sometimes coaches have to create talent through VOODOO. I've seen it done. I've seen coaches with completely mediocre athletes win titles. I worship those coaches.
#43 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 10:13am
The only way to overcome talent is through Phiten. Just ask Randy Johnson.
#44 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 10:30am
quote: "Doing well is complete voodoo"
yeah poops, thats hilarious. Voodoo is right....
or for you; voodoodoo lol
#45 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 10:39am
i think a talented paddler is one who is always thinking of a way to make his technique and style in all conditions the best they can possibly be. Always trying to go faster then they are. this paddler can also see all of this in his head and knows what to try and do from studying the best. Another talent i think is balls, granted that those who train are going to be stronger than those who dont, but what if u have two guys equally conditioned, one of them will be able to punish themselves more than the other and will eventually win, the desire to win comes in. I belive talent is a self made thing
#46 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 10:39am
I'm going to start focusing on voodooing my phiten monkey lotions and big gotos. Right now! I've just been training my mediocre talent up to this point and that's gotten me nowhere.
#47 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 10:53am
hey ryan d,
you're gonna go far with that attitude. you summed it up best. its all in you're head. you gotta see who's gonna crack first. if you can make someone else crack talented or not their done. just gotta make them tap out.
#48 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 11:04am
dont mind if i ask but..
can u honestly say that u have trained hard and given the ammount of effort for where u want to be? or are u just going out paddling here and there and expect to be the best or wonder why people are fast? people sit around and scratch their heads and wonder why tahitians are so fast, and how we are suppose to beat them? get serious and and dedicate yourself, its not a slap in the face, just a generalization
iam pumped and i know alot of other guys are as well to be alll i can be and to bring some pride back to hawaii
#49 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 11:06am
In the end, I think everyone knows why they are where they are. Down deep. The basic formula is easy - train right, train hard = do well. That will get anyone 99% there. I think there's a little x-factor in that final 1% - genetics, voodoo, extra chromosome, whatever.
#50 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 11:22am
Extra chromosomes always result in major developmental issues such as death and Down Syndrome. So e02060, scratch that one off the list.
#51 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 11:36am
this is heady stuff. the sport or medium plays a big role in the success of an athlete in the application of training and talent. As folks have pointed out, training and talent are like brick and mortar, you need both. Paddling is one of those sports where the combination or lack of the two elements are more apparant and more specifically, racing OC1 across the Kaiwi channel is a good example where the combination of talent and training are the biggest factors. You might do ok with one or the other, but to truly excel on a routine basis, you need both. Now suppose you take a completely flat water race or a sprint (w/rudders), which element, talent or training, becomes the more prevalent factor? I'm leaning toward training on that one. Look at golf. Anyone can hit a golf ball and there are now a ton of pros that can hit further and spend just as much or more time on the course than Tiger, but how is it that he is so singularly dominant? For that sport, I'm leaning toward talent possibly being a bigger factor to success. In any case, I like the fact that paddling is one of those sports where you have the ability to develop both, and even if the sum of those two elements leave you wanting, it still is a good way to catch a tan, a few swells, and sometimes a few competitors.
#52 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 11:37am
Phiten works! My back feels better, or maybe its because my wallets 30 bucks lighter!
Phucken Phiten Phoopoo
#53 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 11:38am
Talent is just a word used to describe someones ability in any action or sport that he or she does well or better than most.
So with that said....I think that talent is somewhat developed and in turn can actually be described as "experienced."
An experienced paddler that trains......is hard to beat on any day.
#54 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 2:02pm
what if the paddler is experienced, trains hard, and is talented?
#55 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 3:12pm
Seriously, does that Phiten stuff really make you feel better? I know guys who would swear by those ionic bracelets, but I really think they just liked that cool tribal guy look.
#56 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 4:22pm
When I say talent earlier I actually meant natural talent (not talent that is developed). At the top level (e.g. top 20 to 30 one man paddlers in the world) the paddlers are all in top cardio shape through training so the difference comes down to thier natural talent. For the average paddler, I gaurantee you that you will not beat Karel Jr. on a surfing run, ever, no matter how much you train or how determined you are. You might get a lot better and beat some good paddlers but you have to accept there are others that you will never beat and it is silly and delusional to think you will. You will only end up overtraining and then burn out. Your motivation should be to have fun paddling through paddling alone and not beating others or else it's just ego and you will get frustrated. I have noticed some good paddlers don't seem to have fun racing unless they beat others, even if the run was a huge smoking surf run.
#57 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 4:32pm
in regards to poopoopaddler:
what if the paddler is experienced, trains hard, and is talented?
If he trains hard enough to get in top shape then he should reach a peak of performance in flat water and surf runs. Karel Jr and Kai Bartlett are good examples because they have natural talent and train at the olympic level. Their peak is elite level. Other paddler's peaks are much lower. The peak performance of an average paddler most likely is not even close to the average or below average days for the elite level guys.
The other day I was talking to a paddler who is considered elite level (top 10) and he was saying that he wanted to train paddleboard to challenge Dave Kalama and Laird. I was thinking that this conversation is so out of my league because I have no comprehension of that. But for him, he has natural talent that if applied with hard work to this new sport for him, he could probably do it. It was just kind of funny to hear someone say that for me because I have average athletic ability with no chance to challenge Dave Kalama or Laird Hamilton no matter what i ever do. The fun thing about learning and getting better in a sport is seeing where your plateau is and pushing to get there.
#58 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 4:54pm
quote: "you have to accept there are others that you will never beat"
Well you have a point, but I dont think this would apply to the new generation. Karel, Kai, all the top dogs now, where all groms looking up to guys like the Fotis etc
Looking at the results of the cold pack we have some serious talent coming up that might break all the records...
As far as im concerned, yeah im not "elite" but at the same time, I will not limit myself either.
#59 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 4:58pm
"u have two guys equally conditioned, one of them will be able to punish themselves more than the other and will eventually win, the desire to win comes in. I belive talent is a self made thing"
Amen to that ryan. Were you the first one to even mention the mental aspect of paddling? Seems most everyone else (including me) on this thread is consumed with the physical part of training and neglecting one thing. The biggest part of racing is the race between your ears.
One of the things we sold our team on last year was "the competition doesn't exist in the race, you are competing with yourself and yourself only"
ryan just reminded me of another quote we talked about on the forum before. From Vince Lombardi, "Football is 90% mental, the other half of the game is in your head." Just substitute paddling for football and there you have it.
#60 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 6:03pm
I have to agree with nem0 here. Some of those guys (Kai, Junior, et al) might seem unbeatable, and if a race was held right now, there's probably no one alive who could win against them - TODAY. But to say, "I'll NEVER beat that guy, because I'm an average paddler" or "because my results are average" is crazy.
Someone will beat those guys one day, and they're not just going to come out of nowhere. It's going to be someone who worked their way up the ranks, and never thought that being number one was impossible.
Remember Mike Tyson and Muhammed Ali? Who ever thought those guys would get beat when, and the way they did?
No one is an elite paddler in their first race - Kai Bartlett used to get beat in one-man runs by Jim. But that was back in the day.
I'm just backing-up the whole mental aspect thing - if you have the determination, your goals will all be reachable.
...and yes, I KNOW that Kai and Karel have been beat before. I mean CONSISTENTLY.
...and yes, Phiten does work!
#61 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 6:38pm
Whoa now- I hope you aren't referring to me. Jim Foti used to beat him all the time, but as I recall, that came to a sudden and very final end in about 97 or so. I'm one of the guys who's always slow on the one man but insists they belong on an awesome crew! My success relies largely on impressionable coaches. They usually give in after several weeks of constant whining. Pathetic, really, but that's one sacrifice I'm always willing to make!
#62 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 8:10pm
Well said Ryan, also adding to your post is "heart", "passion", and "having a deeper purpose of paddling". Having "heart" and "passion" provides foundation to your mental focus. A hard training paddler adopting these traits within their mind set and applying it to their training will give a talented paddler a run for his/her money and or either become victorious at the end. A person with these traits will never give up and finish no matter the conditions.
Tahitians has this kind of mind set and views and that is why they come to Hawaii to win for their culture, family, and heritage.
Carlton
save la'au point.
#63 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 8:12pm
you can win a beat those guys. pay whatever it is to get there and do what you all know it would take.... get the best coach canoe paddle whatever and make a run at it. And Ill make that new years resolution with you.have the perfect seson.
see you on the water
#64 Tue, 12/18/2007 - 9:59pm
My new years resolution is to win a beat Goto.
#65 Wed, 12/19/2007 - 5:47am
I used to compete in a different sport - one with a strong tradition of scientific training and preparation.
A coach once said something to me that I've become more and more attached to over time.
"Success in this sport is the result of three elements. Talent, Dedication and Discipline. If you have one of the three - you can be a local hero. If you have two of the three - you can become competitive. But it takes all three to be successful."
I think a lot of us have either Dedication or Discipline and think we have both. We then look at the folks who have Talent - and get envious. But at the end of the day, you play the cards you're dealt as best you can. Sure, I've got crap for Talent. But my Dedication is high and my Discipline is moderately good. So I train as hard (and smart) as I can and as a result I don't usually finish DFL.
#66 Wed, 12/19/2007 - 6:39am
Hey guys, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that any one of you is not the next Karel Jr or Kai Bartlett I'm just saying that after a few years of intense training with good guys you should reach your peak/plateau and you will know if you are elite or average. It should be pretty apparent because you will be way better than the guys you originally started training with even though you have been training the same amount as these guys. Once your gains become very small even with hard training then you have probably peaked and most likely, by the law of averages, it's not at the elite level but you never know. Maybe you are the next superstar daimond in the rough who just needed some polishing. I'm just saying to enjoy yourself everyday in your training because through the law of averages, the next superstar is probably not you but it's fun to see how good you can get.
also a reply to this comment:
…and yes, I KNOW that Kai and Karel have been beat before. I mean CONSISTENTLY.
If you look at race results for probably the last five years, I don't think anyone has consistently beat Karel jr on the downwind surfing races, he is pretty much dominant. He is definitely beatable in flat water but that is not his gifted talent. I was just referring to the down wind racing.
#67 Wed, 12/19/2007 - 3:23pm
What does it mean to be Talented? And how does one become talented? Because if someone "became" talented by doing! Shouldn't every paddler be talented? or is it just the one's that go fast and win all the time talented? Because obviously it sounds like Kai and Karel trained themselves to be "talented!!"
#68 Wed, 12/19/2007 - 3:26pm
I don't think the boxing analogy is a very accurate one, Goto. Maybe Tennis, Cycling or Golf would be better.
#69 Wed, 12/19/2007 - 3:31pm
I would think that talent means natural physical ability + mental ability. this comes from genetics, past athetic activity, the ability to push oneself, and to be able to analyze the situation (in this case the water, the course etc.). then there is training, which is getting yourself out there and putting time in on the water to build strength and endurance (and maybe getting some helpful hints from others in the know).
the best paddlers have both talent and training; in the past people have maybe been able to get by with one or the other, but the level of competition is so high now you need BOTH to win. just look at 1-man paddlers like Manny, Karel, Lauren, etc. They are physically and mentally strong, and put the time in training.
i do know paddlers who train a LOT and still dont do that well in races. and there are others who are talented, but when the races get longer their lack of training will catch up with them.
#70 Wed, 12/19/2007 - 5:18pm