The rumor has been out there that the one man racers will be seperating from the traditional solo ski, one man race. It is rumored that one man paddlers were not happy with the way the race was done last year. The race had more prize money for both divisions and a better pre race and post race party than any race I can remember. What would people say if the sponsor would have come over here and said they would only support surf skis? The main sponsor was after all a surf ski manufacturer. Where were all the one man makers and their money?
Submitted by swelridr on Thu, 01/10/2008 - 8:14pm
Hi,
comment withdrawn. Some people felt it was inappropriate for me to participate in this discussion. That's ok.
See you on the water.
#1 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 10:33am
Why swelridr are you worried about losing most of the entry fees since most entries in the solo were oc paddlers?
You forgot to mention that extra money was given to the first boat which we all know that oc paddlers had nearly no chance at winning. Give me a break!
Having them separate brings the number of entries down to a more managable number, less compitition for resources (ie: rentals, escort boats, trailor space).
Focus can be given specifically to one sport and hopefully with a little more depth during media coverage.
Also with the two sports on different days, people could do both if they desired.
I am sure oc paddlers can find the funding/sponsors to run this race. Yeah boat builders!
Oh, and remember this is an OC paddler forum, watch what you say buddy???
Not in my house BABY!
#2 Thu, 01/10/2008 - 10:18pm
i could agree with swelridr
epic is a huge company and is putting out alot of money for the race, which in a way is a step up for the sport in both types of crafts. Now dont get me wrong, i do both ski and one man, and feel that skis are not getting any more coverage than us onemans do. Some people talk about more media coverage but what media coverage does the race have? yea on surski.info they give updates about the lead ski pack, but thats because they know the names, u dont really hear any hawaii guy skis really being announced or just an average joe. i wouldnt really worry about it, but if u want coverage and more media, you should go out and tell filmers/ news to do more advanced stuff. And one more point at the finish in Hawaii, the skis do come in first but no one knows who they are, every one knows at least the top 15 one mans by first and last name. I just think the more people in one race the better.
#3 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 6:06am
The best way to get news coverage is to hire a cameraman to shoot the race then take the footage to each television station. No news station is going to commit a cameraman to a full day of shooting one spports story. And to really get the job done right you would have to fly the guy over the night before so he is there at the start.
Also, even if you came back with awesome footage the most time you can expect in the sports segment is about :45 secs. 22 seconds for surfskis and 22 seconds for OC1. Most paddlers wouldn't be happy with that but the important thing about getting the race on the news is to get the sponsors name mentioned as many times as possible.....free advertising for the sponsor.
Here's my idea; get June Jones to paddle and you'll have news stations falling all over themselves to cover the race.
#4 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 7:27am
Some people need to get a grip... for those of us from overseas, to paddle across the Molokai channel was a privelege - it was an honour just to compete in that race. There is a lot of mana associated with this channel, not only because of the long history of canoe races across it, but because it is a celebration of our Polynesian sport, a celebration of Polynesian, and particularly Hawaiian, culture and hospitality. Nobody seriously does it for the prize money.
Unfortunately last year I think some people lost sight of that fact. Having competed in that race, I certainly did get the feeling that is was all about the surfski division, which is not really surprising given it was organised by a South African (or US?) surfski company. However there was not really anything remotely cultural attached to it, and I found that singularly disappointing. I did feel at the prizegiving, that the OC1 paddlers were a bit of an afterthought, or a sort of poorer cousin of the surfski - but that was just my impression of it.
I don't blame the Hawaiian paddlers if they want to 'take back' some ownership of their event, and in fact I sympathise with them. I for one would support a race that was run by OC1 paddlers for OC1 paddlers, and one that brought back the respect and mana that the channel has, for all of us that have had the privilege to race across it.
Don't fool yourselves though, even if the sponsorship was pulled, I have absolutely no doubt that paddlers would continue to race across one way or another - its just not about the prize money.
#5 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 8:56am
I think a little history might be needed here. The Molokai Solo Race started as a surfski race. Kanaka Ikaika was originally a surfski group, and at one time there were over 100 skis in some of the local races. As the OC1 canoes started to appear, they were welcomed into Kanaka Ikaika, and gradually the OC1 group became the focus.
The Molokai Solo was sold to a group led by Epic, the surfski
manufacturer, who is the main sponsor today. Initially as I understand it, there was some thought to make it a ski race only last year, but Epic decided it would not be right to exclude the OC!s.
#6 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 9:32am
Can someone please let those that plan on travelling from overseas and spending a lot of money which of the two molokai solo's is the one that the majority of OC1 paddlers are going to race. To come from Aus,NZ or anywhere south of the equator takes some planning as well as long term training schedules. much appreciated.
#7 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 11:36am
NEWS FLASH!! ( JUST OFF THE PHONE W/ MANNY AND HERE IT IS)
PA'A MOLOKAI WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS SOLO OC-1-MAN is set to go off APRIL 27th, with the
MOLOKAI WORLD SURFSKI CHAMPIONSHIPS set to go off on May the 18th as planned.
Epic and PA'A have been working together on what best should be done for both paddling disciplines to continue to grow and thrive... We both feel its time for each to have their own respective race and that it is a total Win Win for the paddling community as a whole as now paddlers will be able to do both if they so desire. Also with both communities in a growth period it made sense to break off for now. Please support PA'A with this as this will be a huge step up for the 1-man community as a whole!!!!!!! Keep posted for an official announcement to come with a new website dedicated solely to the 1-man race......
keep in mind Epic's intent was to continue with the same format of supporting both the 1-man and the Surfski and only after realizing that PA'A will host there own race are we changing our format to Skis only in support of PA'A....
Aloha,
Mark Sandvold
Epic Hawaii
#8 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 12:22pm
This is great but what about those of us who booked airplane tickets to get to an event on May 18th??? After you yourself posted that the date would be May 18th AND www.molokaiworldchampionships.com said May 18 as well it would have made a lot more sense to split the skis and OC1s NEXT YEAR. Doesn't seem like a good way to grow the sport to screw out of town (and country) paddlers like this.
#9 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 2:01pm
I guess I'll be racing the skis alone on the 18th because I can't change my ticket or get different days of work. Anybody else care to join me??
#10 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 2:03pm
That is good news, thanks Mark - its great that both groups are supporting the idea.
In hindsight I think this was probably always on the cards, as both groups continued to develop and get bigger. This way there it twill be easier to organise and also to coordinate with other races etc, especially if you're coming from overseas..
As for the original Kanaki Ikaika association and Molo Solo being for Surfski - I take your point Mbsski, but I think my points are still valid - the Channel was crossed by outriggers along time before skis were ever on the scene. Its that history, coupled with the fact that we are racing in the spiritual homeland of outrigger racing canoes, which was the point I was trying to make.
All the best to both groups for the future.
P.S I hope the best va'a paddler of them all comes back to win Molokai on the ski again - go Lewis!!
#11 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 2:22pm
This is crazy if this is true, as I have already purchased my ticket, and arranged to take the time off work aswell. I have another buddy that is coming in from Germany and he is already planned his trip. Is there no way to make it a Saturday and Sunday event. To completely change the timing at this point is crazy for out of country travelers. I guess I will be on the line with Mr. Cainoe. I am sure there are others in the same situation.
#12 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 2:52pm
It looks it might all work out for the best. My history part was simply to point out the origins of the one man crossings. My personal first crossing of the channel was in a 6 man in 1961, some 20 years before my first time in a ski. I do understand the cultural part, it is just that the growth has made it challenging.
Kanaka Ikaika might have to look at changing the State Race date or shuffling a couple of their race dates!
Aloha,
Mark
#13 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 2:56pm
I have to chime in with Cainoe and Boogaloo on this one. Changing the Solo at this late date is disheartening. Many of us have planned our training programs around the May 18th date, have already made lodging and air reservations, hired an escort boat for that date, etc. Cutting 3 weeks off screws up people's training efforts, and forces extra cost to change reservations. Having it the day after the Maui Challenge also screws up Maui Canoe & Kayak Club's efforts as most will have to choose between one race and the other. Face it, most people are not going to race 26 miles one day, and then turn around and race 32 the next day... not and expect to do well. Given the low cost of the MCKC event, I know which one I'm going to choose.
Personally, I don't get it. Having more racers on the course at one time allows race organizers to spread the overhead costs (escort boats, race officials, safety personnel, registration materials, advertising, etc.) over more entry fees, making the race more cost effective (think lower registration fees).
If it's THAT big an issue, why not just have separate registrations and separate awards ceremonies, but still run the same course on the same day? They could spit-cost the overhead items such as race officials and safety personnel, and still remain "separate but equal."
We're all paddlers... can't we all just get along?
#14 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 3:43pm
Hey dmehling and Cainoe,
Epic's intention from the begining was to keep the same format and support both!! It's out of our hands so to speak.
In saying this though from a sponsors point of view the burden of of trying to come up with money for both with regards to prizes etc would be difficult if the majority of 1-mans do the PA'A race.
Believe me I too think we paddlers share more in common that have differences for sure!! WE LOVE TO GET IN THE OCEAN AND PULL WATER AND CATCH BUMPS!!!!!
#15 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 4:15pm
unbelievable
You tell everyone to wait for official date
You publish official date
Those of us who are not blessed to be living in the 808 make travel plans to attend AND THEN we are told basically screw you nobodies we have changed our minds again
If you are claiming that your event is the world championships then some consideration should be giving to those making the commitment from other parts of the world
If the plan is long term, then what is the harm in waiting til 2009 to run two separate events if that is the direction that it is going.
Or if it is so crucial to be apart this year, then why not do as someone suggested above and run one on Sat and the other on Sun?
#16 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 4:20pm
ditto on that TO Kanu.
This is pucked up and I'm not even playing hockey. I guess they want it to be like TheWORLD SERIES, not a foreign team around there at all, or the Super Bowl winner being a "world champion" 'WHERE IS THE WORLD?"
Do the right thing. POSTPONE PLANS UNTIL 2009 and do it fast.
#17 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 4:31pm
Hey Mark, you know what? To hell with the money. What was it last year? $5000? I am sure Kai loved getting that cheque but it's not like anybody winning is gonna pull in what Federer or Tiger makes on a good weekend. I won the Olympics a few years back and got a bunch of handshakes and a gold medal. No cash. Nada. That was quite ok with me. I'm fairly new to this so I'll be the first to admit I'm not gonna win the solo, but even if I were $5000 isn't what would be motivating me. It would be kicking ass with a perfect race the day it matters and making all the hard training worthwhile. So I don't buy the sponsorship bit.
Bottom line is I'll race anywhere anytime and I don't disagree that this MIGHT be a great move for outrigger (I don't know that much about the politics of it all). What I do know is that it is EXTREMELY bush league to change the date this close to the race. You've left it too late....why not wait till next year? You call the event the Molokai WORLD championships ffs, yet by changing the date you've just messed up people from around the world who have to make some pretty heavy duty arrangements to get to Hawaii to race. This date change is a very Hawaii centric move. Ok...it is your sport, but if you want it to grow you have to think of others from around the world, not just those living on the islands. I am really disappointed in Epic and this Pa'a group, whoever they are, for being so incredibly lacking in vision.
#18 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 4:32pm
#19 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 4:50pm
Unbelievable… This really sucks. Not only people all over the world got screwed financially, what’s more important it makes organizers look incredibly bad. Way to grow sport! I wouldn’t be surprised if there will be limited or no international participation for years to come in this race….
#20 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 4:58pm
Hey Cainoe,
With all due respect please read my post that shows that it was not Epic's or my call at all to change the format and date.
We continue to hope for the best and keep it as it always has been with the inclusion of 1-mans and skis racing side by side!
With all the "Talk" of rumors I too being on the organizing committee wanted to know whats up and found out this morning from Manny who does a great job organizing local races on Oahu for us all.
It's his desire to "Stand alone" and separate the two not Epics.
Please don't attack me for being the messenger, I only wanted to give the "World" a heads up and confirm the rumor.
Manny's contact if you want to discuss with him is
kulukulum001@hawaii.rr.com
Aloha!!
Mark
#21 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 5:01pm
Cool. Apologies, Mark. Your initial post sounded like it rather enthusiastically supported splitting the two so maybe you can see how there could be that misunderstanding. A couple of questions then. 1) How does Epic feel about one-mans still racing on the 18th? Are you guys gonna prevent them from doing that? 2) How does someone from outside the 808 contact Manny? It would be nice to vent at the right person.
Thanks.
#22 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 5:08pm
Sorry, Mark. I got the email from your last post. Thanks.
#23 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 5:08pm
Perfect!!! This is exactly what I was hoping for. The rumor had been going around for months that someone else was having a solo race for onemans seperate from the traditional ski oneman race. With training and travel considerations it would have been way more appropriate to let paddlers know when this was first decided. I will have to agree that for most paddlers prize money in this race is not even an issue, but many fellow paddlers complained about Lewis getting more money coming in first overall when it was a givin that a ski would win. I heard this is one main reason for the disgruntled paddlers who are changing this race. Remember this race was put on better than so many years before because a ski manufacturer put in over $100,000. If epic would have said they were going to give Oscar Chalupski $5000 just to show up i would be cool with that. For those of you that missed the hula on the evening of the pre race party, or the pule on the beach at the start, you missed the most hawaiian culture put into this race in several years. The people that put on last years race did a very good job for both the ski and oneman paddlers and i hope sponsors will continue with their support to enable these races to continue. I live in Hawaii, I am down with either date, I would hate to be from somewhere else trying to adjust my travel and training.
#24 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 6:58pm
This was the reason for my original post, I heard the rumor over a week ago about this Manny sending an e-mail to one person in Australia. Therefore it all sounds like a big secret. One the hell a forums like this for.
For persons such as myself who purchased tickets well in advanced and they can't be changed, you are the ones truly suffering. You are the people that make this a world event.
Shame Manny Shame
#25 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 9:46pm
On Manny's behalf (sorry Manny if I overstep), he is a single paddler who is trying to do the right thing for one-man outrigger canoe paddling and for outrigger canoe paddlers, not only via this solo race but also with some regular season races here on O'ahu. He's not perfect, he's human for God's sake!
He is sacrificing his precious limited training time to organize this grass roots effort and certainly doesn't need unconstructive comments such as "Shame Manny Shame". He has nothing against surfskis or Epic's great efforts at the solo race in 2007. He is simply doing his best and trying so hard to accomodate everyone, though that's an impossible feat, clearly. Up until now, he's been in communication with other race organizers figuring out the best date to hold the race, attempting to avoid stepping on toes, and certainly was not trying to keep anything a secret.
I understand the concerns of and empathize with the international contingent that already made plans. All of the Hawai'i paddlers continually show a great amount of aloha to visiting paddlers and will do the same in 2008. If you need assistance with plans, accomodations, etc, just ask. But don't crucify someone who is putting in more time for others than for himself. Very few of those that post on here can say the same for themelves. I know I can't. He is a person that will take outrigger canoe paddling to another level in many ways, but not if you shit on him or his purely altruistic intentions and efforts.
We here in HI hope you all can make it in 2008. You all truly make it a world championship race and don't think for a second the race organizers don't realize that and appreciate your presence at our races. See you on the water April 27.
Aloha,
Jaimie
#26 Fri, 01/11/2008 - 11:15pm
Confirming the race date on the "Molokai World Ski and OC1Championship" internet site.....2 minutes of my time back in November/December.
Booking and paying for the family's airtickets and accomodation (based on a confirmed date)...........alot of hard earned dollars and physical excitement.
Changing the race date.........certainly NOT priceless.
Cost to change tickets, accom, work and family commitments over $2,000 (and no naughty's with the wife for at least 1 month!).
I certainly believe in the cause and will support the new race 100%. I have not met Manny, but believe his motivation is only going to be beneficial for the growth and exposure of the sport. It may even form into an Official OC1 World circuit?
I am extremely dissappointed however, in the original race organisers for posting their "confirmed date" on "their" official World Championship website. If they were unsure, they simply should not have announced it. They held a very well organised race last year (it was my first solo), but I now have a slightly tainted edge because of what is now being discussed. I wonder how many SA Rand make up $2000AUD?
Would a solution for 2008 be to hold the race on the same day, though have different start times (say 30-60 minutes apart), and have the differing sporting bodies eg Epic and PAA run each section with their relevant sponsors? (and aim at different dates in 2009?) Sounds simple if everyone co-operates. Surely you guys can work it out?
Can both "offical" event organisers please post the OFFICIAL and FULLY CONFIRMED DATES for both "World Championship" races on this site? It might also be an idea to update the molokaiworldchampionship.com website????????
Maybe you guys should take 7 days before making the FINAL FINAL Decision.
At least the Visa card people will like me for a little while.......
slug
Sydney Australia
P.S Its about previledge and experience of competing in the race itself, not the biscuits at the other end.
#27 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 12:16am
What - almost 4 months notice is not enough for you?
Even if they said the races (one-man and surf ski) will be split next year, some of you will still have to complain about that!
Get over it and throw your support behind the organisers - without them there wouldn't even be a race!
#28 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 4:03am
Hk Paddler. Dude, when you've already booked plane tickets that can't be changed, arranged time off work and hired someone to cover for you and are unsure if even if you can afford to eat the cost for new plane tickets whether your boss will give you the time off to go to race on the new date it kinda sucks. Despite your dumbass comment I don't think anybody has a problem with splitting the events in principle, just with it happening with such short notice and yes, when you have to travel a long way to get to the race and have booked everything well in advance 4 months is short notice.
#29 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 4:53am
HK Paddler
3 1/2 months notice for a world championships actually would be considered by most of the world to NOT be sufficient notice. In any paddle sport that I have been associated with, annual world championships are planned well in advance of 3.5 months.
Also once you consider that a date was already published for the last 2 months, you might see why it is a little unfortunate for those who have geared things around this published date.
An error was obviously made in either declaring the May 18th date or in the attempt to run a separate event after the date was declared.
Hopefully the organizers of the event(s) can see this and in an attempt to support each other, work together to run the events on the same weekend/day.
It is in this attempt that all parties (international and local) would be best served as the sport moves forward into 2009.
#30 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 5:39am
So is the PA’A MOLOKAI WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS SOLO OC-1-MAN going to be the State Championships as well?? According to the Kanaka Ikaika Race Schedule the State champs is being held on April 27th and Solo for OC-1 is also on April 27th ? i guess there will be mostly surf skis at the State Champs if there are 2 seperate events on the sameday.
#31 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 10:39am
Eckhart-say whatever you want, this is an open forum! Here in America, we encourage freedom of speech and open discussion(supposedly). I'm sure your comments were relevant, as usual. Don't let some dumbass keep you out of the conversation.
#32 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 11:28am
Many from outside Hawai`i are going to eat it financially; however, as to a seperate solo for one-mans, several points:
a and Paa's solo race.i race that should be put on by an organization from Hawaii and Kanaka I Kai Ka is at fault for selling the solo.P.S. "Mapu C. Sawyer" has my vote for the sweetest handle ever.
#33 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 3:16pm
Hey Eck unless YOU felt it was inappropriate I wouldn't give a damn.
#34 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 5:52pm
Hi Jim, painteur, we all like these discussions and if we do not conrtribute comments, there is no thread.
The initial posting challenging the boat builders for their money is not ok in my opinion.
I favor the post of the olympic gold medal winner: why would someone want to be paid for paddling ??
I can't see how that would be justified.
#35 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 6:24pm
I don't understand the complaints about the May 18th race date posting being incorrect. At the time of posting there was no official word of any other race and I am sure epic was planning to run the only solo ski, oneman race. 2 days ago Manny's race was outed because of this post. Who knows when it might of been otherwise. Also, why is Manny's race synonymous with "world championship". I think epic bought the rights to the race? Eckart I have no idea where your point of view is coming from. Boat builders not giving money? A major complaint of the unhappy paddlers is that the money wasn't fair. Maybe if a oneman manufacturer put in just 3 percent of epic (the ski manufacturer) for first place oneman there would not be this feeling of unequality. Do car makers not sponsor car races, shoe makers sponser running races, biking, beer fests, wine tasting, and on and on and on. Onemaners say they got less press. I did some research and didn't find it so, but so what, everyone got way more out of this race than ever before. If you were budweiser sponsoring a beer fest would you give miller the same press? If Manny wants to take over the world of oneman racing great!! It just seems to me that he is hurting other clubs races, ie; kanaka i kai ka states, maui to molokai. This doesn't seem the best way to expand or promote the sport.
#36 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 8:03pm
I am hoping for a response from Manny to my email to him about the date change (see the other post). At this point I haven't heard from him. Will he respond or just ignore those of us who have emailed him imploring him to reconsider the date change? The answer to that will, in my opinion, say alot about the credibilty of his new event and him as a leader in our sport.
I don't know all the politics of OC1 racing in Hawaii, but if it is like other paddle sports there is a lot of politics and intrigue involved. There may be good reasons to separate the OC1s from the ski race but none have been explained to any of us on this forum by those responsible for the decision. Furthermore, when was Manny planning on telling us of the date change? If it wasn't for Mark informing us when would we have known? It is hard for those of us from off the islands to rearrange our logistics with the 3 1/2 month notice we have been given. How much longer would we have had to wait before Manny made his "official" announcement?
I have been to sprint canoe worlds, olympics, and dragon boat worlds. In every instance there has been at least a one year notice of the competition date so that people and teams from around the world can make the necessary arrangements to participate. This minimum time frame is standard. The late date change this year makes outrigger look like a joke which is tragic because it is such a great sport. There may be good reasons to separate the skis and the OC1s and in the long term it may be best for the sport, but if you care about the sport and its credibility and growth internationally I can't see how you can approve of the way everything has been handled this year. Please, if you care about the sport growing beyond the state of Hawaii, let Manny know that changing the date at this point is not a good idea and that he should wait until next year after including everyone in the decision.
#37 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 8:47pm
Oh, you're right - it has to be one man makers, not boat makers.
swelridr, no problem; explain to me why price money is a good thing ?
I would think that price money is part of marketing; the marketing expense will be covered by product sales.
Therefore, prize money = raised product prices.
Yes, I know, I don't have to buy ... :)
The entertainment value of paddling/surfski is mostly 'doing it', less 'watching it'. That's why I do not understand what this money is for.
If surfskiers/paddelrs do generate money - TV, spectators, movies, - then they should get their share.
Your Budweiser/Miller comparison is correct imo.
Karel was on ESBN lately in an ad.
#38 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 8:55pm
Is there any reason the OC1 Molokai Solo can't be on Saturday the 17th of May????? If it needs to change at all this year??
#39 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 8:58pm
Could've? Should've? Would've? Are you Charlie Bucket or Veruca Salt? Half empty or half full? "Opinions" are just that...every one is entitled to their own. You can't please everyone, let's move on. There are more "important" things in life to focus your energy on. On the positive side, "Thanks" to those brave folk(s) who step up to the plate and organize these events for ALL of us... even under criticism. Just race, and just paddle!
#40 Sat, 01/12/2008 - 11:13pm
Prize money or not, it's pretty ridiculous if these events aren't supported financially by oc1 builders. I guess the whole Pa'a Molo thing wasn't planned real well w/ regards to the non-Hawaii based competitors, but it would be super if everyone could rally 'round Manny and Pa'a as the sport experiences these growing pains. I think he has it headed in the right direction. Hell, I might even give it a shot-is there a time limit?
#41 Sun, 01/13/2008 - 2:38am
Yes, you must cross the finish line no later than May 18th.
#42 Sun, 01/13/2008 - 9:43am
this has been most interesting reading. i am stoked Manny is putting on races. we all get to do more of what we love, paddle and race eachother. i think the one mans would mostly be in favor of rowdys idea about the 17th date. everyone will get equal press and all can be at peace again. i also know that it costs a lot of money to put on a race like molokai and sponsors help out in the hopes that their advertising dollar creates more orders, lowering their cost average and if effect enabling them to charge less per item. i hope each race supports one another and sponsors see the benefit of supporting one incredible sport, albeit on two different crafts.
#43 Sun, 01/13/2008 - 1:34pm
Why not have the OC1 solo on the 11th of May? That would make the most sense, as accomodations and escort boats would be a lot easier, and maybe visitors could do both the relay and the solo on one mans? If both races are the same weekend the competition for accomodations, air reservations, etc., with the Hula Festival on Molokai wouldn't make much sense. That way the press could focus each week on each event for 3 weeks helping all involved.
#44 Sun, 01/13/2008 - 1:59pm
Seems to me the best idea so far to separate the races and keep logistical problems to a minimum, is to run earlier or later on the same day; or on the 17. Surley there can be a compromise here! See you on the water!
Thor
#45 Sun, 01/13/2008 - 4:09pm
Kauai World Challenge is already slated for May 8-11, and we certainly hope they won't change the date this late in the game...
#46 Sun, 01/13/2008 - 4:58pm
...so now I'm curious, is the Starbucks Maui-Molokai still on for Apr 26th?
So the schedule would be paddle from from Maui to Molokai on Saturday, Molokai solo to Oahu on Sunday?
Shoots, might as well have the Solo finish in Waimanalo and then on Monday do the State Championship course to Kaimana...
That would DEFINITELY help out with the logistics.
#47 Sun, 01/13/2008 - 5:25pm
I haven't changed anything yet. Just checked the website again: http://www.molokaiworldchampionships.com/ and there is no change to anything. It's May 18th.
As far as I am concerned I'm invited to participate. Nobody says Oc -1 are 86ed (for my fellow foreign crowd that is "Bar Code" or let's say Pub Code for: "Don't come here again"). Obviously I'm not 808, and prize money is the least of my concerns. Heck I'm paying to be there. Counting on prize money for me is like going to Vegas and expecting a jackpot.
I am looking forward to not only test my mettle with the likes of Thor, Rambo,perhaps Ray Shipman( I know I'm pushing it there). Nappy and other old fakas, but to meet all you crazy paddlers from around the globe.
If there is a change to Saturday easy, we all can do it. If not, Sunday it is!! Just hand me a cold beer when I'm done, I'll pay for that too.
Manny's race is cool and I promise to be there in 2009, if it's called a world Championship. Otherwise it's a well attended local race or call it an international meet.
The prestige of paddling in a World Championship is what makes people from all over the world sacrifice to be there, it's the "Olympics" if you will. Don't we want to expand on the sport and make it grow?
For the same money I will spend as of now, I can just rent an escort boat and do it by myself.
That's training !!!!!
I don't like wedges it gives me wedgies. Stay united.
#48 Sun, 01/13/2008 - 7:00pm
It sucks that all you made reservations to come and now have to go through this uncertainty. However, i do think that we should all support Manny's efforts, in that he is doing this for the right reasons. Knowing him, i'm sure that he didn't just arbitrarily choose a date for the race, and if he chose the 27th, he must have a lot of reasons for choosing that date. As Jaimie said in the other thread, and i'm sure none of you doubt it, but just to reiterate, he puts a huge amount of work into these races. It's a shame to see his efforts brought so low on here (but, for the most part, people are remaining surprisingly positive), but i do see where you all are coming from. Didn't the Moloka'i Hoe once run twice in one year? When HCRA decided that they didn't want Aloha Week running it because they didn't want it to revert to an Iron race. And i think that everyone did the HCRA one. So now i guess we all have a choice of which race to do this year, and next year there will probably be only one and we can all get along again. It's been said repeatedly, and it's something that we shouldn't forget-- the change ultimately will be a good thing for the sport, we just have to make it through this years growing pains.
#49 Sun, 01/13/2008 - 8:27pm
Here is a solution. As Manny hasn't indicated he is running a race, think about this.
So not to mess up the race schedules of races already scheduled, run the World Championship on May 10 on Kauai. It does not always have to be the Molokai run. Every year the course should change. One year it can be in Kona, another year, molokai). This allows everyone who wants to to do the MAui Molokai run.
Those who want to do the relay can do that.
Those who want to go for a world champoinship do the course solo-34 chalenging miles! Then those who want to do the Molo Solo on the 18th can still do that. The Kauai course has a variety of winds so it would not favor anyone who is primarily a downhill racer. It could be possible that someone from AUS or the Cook Islands could win - there still is a great downwind leg in normal weather conditions. The logistics are probably set for the Kauai Challenge so it would be easier for Manny. No need for escort boats so a big savings there for anyone. Pool resources - make it a greater event. IF this sounds workable, check with the Kauai people to see if they support the idea.
In any case, Luke, if Manny is scheduling the race maybe it can be offically set so everyone knows what is really happening. The idea is good- the way people are finding out about it isn't.Setting a race on a conflicting weekend hurts participation and would show no respect for a group of hardworking people on Maui who have put together a great race that has become one of the most popular. This is one reason why you see fewer people racing certain races. People get frustrated because of poor communication and other things of course. In order to increase participation, make it easy and fun for people to particpate. Congratualations on a great race today! now that you have a vested interest in the sport, think hard about how the sport can grow.
This confusion over the OC1 World Championship is a good case on how not to build the sport. Epic did a great job last year. Sure they showed a bit of favoritism toward the surfski-they build them and they spent a lot of money putting on the race! (Any one of Hawaii's OC1 builders could sponsor the Molo Solo but they don't have the money it takes.) Epic couldn't control the weather Numerouno- if it would have been tradewinds it would have been a great run all the way without that awful Hawaii Kai - wind in your face- finish. Because of mostly OC1 comments, they changed the course this year back to the Hawaii KAi finish. Enough said!
#50 Sun, 01/13/2008 - 11:03pm
Hey Luke, I'd love to support Manny's event but it just isn't going to be possible given the late notice. Too many things to rearrange at too great a cost. It's very disappointing. I am sure that the others who have expressed disappointment in the date change feel the same way - it's nothing personal and it's not like we don't support his effort, we just can't given the logistics and the tight time frame. All of this should have been decided in early November, not mid January. I'll probably join Thor, Boogaloo and a bunch of the others who have posted here and race on the 18th with the skis.
You mention that one year there was 2 Molokai Hoes and that maybe people could do both races this year. My question to you is would you do both? At least you don't have to consider airfare, time off work, accomodation etc in making your arrangements. Those are the major stumbling blocks for those of us from out of state/country. I hope you guys there understand there are two reasons everyone wants to do the solo. One is to paddle across the channel and say you made it. However for a lot of us that is not good enough. We want to race you guys. I know that I have been training since last May as hard as I did for the Olympics not just to paddle across but to race Kai, Karel, Danny, yourself, Manny, Andy Penny, etc. etc. That's what sucks about this. I suppose somebody could paddle across the channel anytime, but only rarely do you get the chance to do it against the world's best. That's what I was excited about. So how about it? If you guys support Manny's race (which we all would have if we knew about it earlier) would you then come out and support those of us that have been left out by the late date change?
Oh and one more thing....in another post you asked what is wrong with our sport, suggesting that there aren't as many people as there used to be doing it. Travel a little and you'll be amazed at how quickly it is growing on the mainland, in Canada, in Europe. All the more reason to take these paddlers into consideration when playing with the dates for the solo.
At least I'll be in Hawaii in March for two small races (15th and 22nd). Hope to meet you and paddle against you there.
#51 Mon, 01/14/2008 - 5:27am
Luke, could you let us know what the "right" reasons are for changing the race?
Also, as Cainoe mentioned part of the draw for international paddlers is getting to race the "big dogs". This is one of the reasons why I drove 10 hours to race Jr when he visited Blackburn last year.
We make these efforts to get the chance to race the best. Unfortunately, this year, we may end up missing out on some of the guys but can not make the changes for 2008. Hopefully the skis and OC-1s will run together on May 18th with the best of the world there in both disciplines.
#52 Mon, 01/14/2008 - 6:07am
Not to diminish the concern of the out of state paddlers on the date change, but since we are throwing ideas out there, how about this?
Friday April 25th: Maliko(Maui) to Flemmings(Maui) (~23 miles or so)
Saturday April 26th: Flemmings to Kaunakakai(Molokai) (~23 miles)
Sunday April 27th: Kaluakoi to Hawaii Kai (~32 miles)
Now that would be an awesome endurance surfing race!
Super Aito watch out!!!
#53 Mon, 01/14/2008 - 9:21am
Howzit gang; so many ideas, lotta concerns. remember: people like Sandvold, Manny,Keizo,and Luke all work very hard on getting things together for us to enjoy this sport.These guys all bust their asses off for US! Keep that in mind... Now, sorry about those of you who purchased your air tickets prior to all this.... We all learn, evaluate,readjust and try again next year with more knowledge.. Come anyway,enjoy the place, See if Kanaka Ikaika (Kalau) can make their race on the 18th. You may be surprised at the amount of guys that show up.... smonahan, hard part might be escort boats may not want to pound back up right after one race, to do another the next. Unless there are other escort boats that may want to jump in. dmehling, I'm sure a good training authority as yourself can adjust the work load so that you increase your percentages slowly and early enough to fit in your tapering and pcr workouts prior to race day... Look forward to seeing your name on the top of the podium.. pkonohia, that sounds really good.. the Tahitians can come up give us a good "beatdown" on their rudderless, then race the superferry back to Maui. ai ta pea pea!! Oh yeah, the people on Molokai can institute a kapu on fishing within 3miles of Molokai during ALL races FROM Molokai. All the escorts, some guys give all guys bad names.show respect.If you wanna fish Molokai, come alone or with a friend.
#54 Mon, 01/14/2008 - 10:31am
That sounds like an unreal schedule Peter K.. Three bombing surf runs in one weekend.
Carlton Helm
save la'au point.
#55 Mon, 01/14/2008 - 10:41am
Carlton,
Yeah that would be awesome, wouldn't it? As you know, 2 of the 3 races i just mentioned are happening already that weekend (Maui2Molo and Molo2Oahu). Maybe next year??? BTW, awesome job on the races!
mc2,
Did you just say the "S" word in your last post? Why did you have to go there?
PK
PS, Manny, if you read this post, can you tell me how to get to the start of your next race from the "Super Ferry" dock.
#56 Mon, 01/14/2008 - 11:11am
Not to dis anyone, and not because of the shirt he gave me, (thanks pkonohia!) but Maliko to Flemmings to Kaunakakai, and Kaluakoi to Hawaii Kai, over the 3-day period, sounds like the coolest idea I've heard all day.
#57 Mon, 01/14/2008 - 12:52pm
cheehooo!
Now we're talking Pekelo;)
#58 Mon, 01/14/2008 - 7:50pm
"Friday April 25th: Maliko(Maui) to Flemmings(Maui) (~23 miles or so)
Saturday April 26th: Flemmings to Kaunakakai(Molokai) (~23 miles)
Sunday April 27th: Kaluakoi to Hawaii Kai (~32 miles)
Now that would be an awesome endurance surfing race!
Super Aito watch out!!!"
COUNT ME IN FOR THAT, I MAY EVEN GO SO FAR AS TO TRAIN FOR IT!!
#59 Mon, 01/14/2008 - 7:53pm
It sounds like the Maui boys have a great point. I mean the Maui to Molokai has become one of the most popular races amongst all international participants. So although, maybe unintended, this may make paddlers choose between the two races. But the idea of running the race separately sounds good. Lets face it surfskis deserve their own race and oc1s deserve there own race. Maui to Molokai in the last couple of years has become the premiere event for that weekend. Prior to that it was a race on Oahu labeled as the State Championships. Now if we do what the Maui boys are talking about we might have something like Tahiti's Super Aito meets Hawaiiki Nui . This is exactly the kind of events that Hawaii needs to do in order to compete with the Tahitians. Maliko to Flemmings is a challenging course giving you everything exccept upwind paddling. I want to one up Pekelo and Suggest this on three consecutive weekends:
1. Keokea ( Big Isle ) to Mckenna
2. Maliko to Kaunakakai
3. Kalua Koi to Hawaii Kai
Offer NICE CASH PRIZE and try to convince the rudderless paddlers to to come get their hair wet in the some of the world's best surfing runs.
#60 Mon, 01/14/2008 - 9:13pm
Paddlepimp, I second your suggestion. That Keokea run will really separate the men from the boys; or, at the very least, most of the cry baby light weights on this forum would be sifted out in the 'Alenuihaha.
There could be a sweet party afterwards too on each island.
shit, its already 9:30, im going to Maitai's.
#61 Tue, 01/15/2008 - 9:57pm
You can say that again! About 45 miles the first two days, finishing up with an "easy" 32 from Kaluakoi to O'ahu. Not to mention the parties after each race. A true test of endurance, for sure.
#62 Wed, 01/16/2008 - 4:19am
Just ahhhhh, like to say a few words. Now that's what i"m talking about ninja!!!!! That's what we need here in the 50th state, an island to island to island race.That sounds like and exellent idea.
I know alot of people overseas are concerned and some are not happy w/ the fact that the solo has been changed to a different date which ultimately changes work schedules and travel dates(not to mention $) but i think this is going in the right direction and what it comes down to is supporting PA"A and EPIC because both put alot of time and effort into organizing these events. "IF CAN, CAN.... IF NO CAN, 2009".
#63 Wed, 01/16/2008 - 1:13pm