In light of the growth of the sport of paddling OC-1 and OC-2, I think it is time for OC-1 and OC-2 Clubs, A place for paddlers that have no desire or time to commit to the OC-6 clubs, A group that they can hang out with and learn from, Shaun Michael is a good example of who these new clubs should be looking for, Brand new to the sport and very eager to learn, Or these new clubs could be an off shoot of the already established OC-6 clubs, A big part of the growth of Triathlon is the "club" aspect. Although Triathlons are an individual sport, Clubs offer them a place to share training, get coached, and find new training partners. I would love to see OC-1 clubs form or at the very least OC-1 divisions within an OC-6 club where there are no expectations for that paddler to be at every practice or race. This is also an opportunity for OC-6 clubs to retain members that are dropping out of the club for OC-1 only paddling.
Submitted by OceanOhana on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 12:00pm
Nah
#1 Mon, 02/11/2008 - 3:08pm
Interesting idea. An obvious advantage is not needing a club house or beach front storage of canoes. The "club-house" is your roof racks. I think in the long run it may bring more people to OC6 as well.
#2 Mon, 02/11/2008 - 5:32pm
I think it's a really good idea, and something that will happen eventually.
Or... what about.... (i think this might be like my 5th time posting this idea.. but it never really has had the effect i was hoping for. so i'll try again) switching the oc-1 season to coincide with distance season, and clubs train together on OC-1s and OC-6s, and you race on the OC-1 as part of your club. Early in the summer there is an emphasis on Regattas and shorter distance races (OC-1.. V-1.. and OC-6), and as the summer progresses the races get longer. Then in early September or late August we have our state championship regatta (that maybe can include international teams...), and then a large group of people from Hawai'i will go to the Super Aito and try and be competitive... then all the big distance races throughout September (OC-1.. V-1.. and OC-6) and the last week of September will be a huge week long race (such as has been proposed before..... something like Maliko to Flemings.. Flemings to Kaunakakai, Kaunakakai to Kalua Koi, Kalua Koi to Waikiki) and then two weeks to refine our peak and we race the Moloka'i Hoe and possibly have a chance to compete with Tahiti. We'll have an entire year to train properly without having to go hard all year long for three seperate events. Lets bring it all together..... sponsors would sponsor the entire season... a huge umbrella association would have the power and the finances to interest the media...
and it all starts with OC-1s paddling for their clubs.
hmmm........
one day.
#3 Mon, 02/11/2008 - 9:40pm
Luke... i like the way you think. Even thou I have heard you say this before, this time around made good sense. A lot of variables to overcome, but if you find the right starting point, the ultimate solution will reveal itself organically.
#4 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 12:28am
I see no need for OC1 clubs. OC1 activity is strongest in areas where OC6 clubs have the most influence.
The way to keep the sport growing and healthy is through youth programs within 6 man clubs.
#5 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 3:28am
Well, I just looked through the Super Aito results, and correct me if I'm wrong, but only two(2) guys from Shell were in the top fifty or so from Super Aito. Again, I didn't look super duper carefully, so feel free to double check. Also, Hawaiian Canoe Club, who did better than any club crew from Hawaii in Molos, had zero oc1 time trials during the entire distance season, or so I've been told. My point is, besides a few elite paddlers, it is very difficult to train well for both disciplines at once. I heard Shell did nothing but train in the six for three months leading up to the Hoe, not one other race V1 or V6, and I believe this is the level of focus and commitment necessary to compete at that level. I like the umbrella organization idea, though, just not at the same time in the year.
#6 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 4:25am
You could also bring OC-1 more into the framework of the traditional clubs if you held races using a Cross Country racing format - six paddlers on OC-1s make up a "team" and each member is awarded points that correspond with his/her placement (1st=1point, etc.) The team of six with the fewest points wins. There would still be the fellowship/community of the OC-6 clubs, but on one-mans. Training could be on your own with no schedule to keep, but you'd still be on a team.
I personally don't see a need for an OC-1 "club." I meet my friends down at the beach, we paddle... I don't see where dues and meetings could make that any better.
#7 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 6:28am
OC-1 is like surfing! It on your time- whenever, whereever. Keep that independant spirit alive !
#8 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 6:46am
here's a prototype for such a club
#9 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 7:31am
Dacho's on to something. Paddling and localism. I'm getting in on this early and claiming the Dume run.
#10 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 7:45am
I'll bring my molotov cocktails.
#11 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 9:34am
I am leaning more towards the new paddler, It is easy for someone that has paddled six man to say they don't need another club, What about the guy that wants to paddle OC-1, Does not like or has no time to commit to six man racing? I sell quite a few boats to new paddlers with little if any OC paddling experience. A club of some sort would give that individual a place to meet other paddlers as well as learn proper technique and conditioning. I absolutely cringed when Shaun Michael said he was doing the majority of his paddling at max sprint efforts. For someone that has never paddled and was given the cold shoulder by some other paddlers he is on a slipper path, One that may lead him out of paddling, Or into injury. I am very happy to see Danny Tyson and Stolba doing clinics, But this is limited mostly at this point to the LA area.
Hey Jim why the "Nah" got any good reason? why not? what does it hurt? Most OC-6 clubs already have a core group of OC-1 paddlers, How does it hurt to have a membership level within the club at a reduced cost that allows them to be part of that group. Maybe they decide they want to move into six man racing.
I can tell you why I want the clubs to have them, Or to form new clubs specifically for OC-1 paddling, Here is the scenario.
Guy buys a new boat, Pays well over 3000.00 after boat, taxes, paddle, leash racks, etc. Customer says great I can't wait to paddle this boat, Do you know of a group that I can contact to learn and hang with? My answer, Nope good luck, most of the paddlers and teams are elitists and don't want to paddle with someone that is new, Ohh and don't go on an OCpaddler.com and ask silly novice questions all you will get there is a bunch of sarcastic know it all's that are so concerned with there male egos that they won't use the proper gear or paddle if it infringes on there male ego.
Ideal situation that same question is answered like this. Since you live in "fill in blank" There is a great club called "fill in blank" They paddle every wednesday night and Saturday morning, Talk to "fill in blank" He/she is the coach and will be able to help you out. Ohhh and there is a great website called OCpaddler.com, There are a few knuckleheads on there, Don't listen to a word they say, The rest of the information is really helpful, But whatever you do don't mention the word "chine" And if you really want good reading us the word "Hyper".
#12 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 9:34am
i don't think this is a bad idea, but here's an example of our area.
we've try to welcome some of the straggler unaffiliated guys who paddle from our beach... i think they know when we go out and we've let them know that they're welcome to paddle with us, and if they train up, that they're welcome to do runs with us, if so inclined.
since the clubs in our area are also the core oc1 paddlers in the area, there's probably not any room right now for a club exclusively for oc1 paddlers since the core oc1 paddlers already belong to a club and probably don't have the time or inclination to affiliate with this new club (or maybe that's just me)... and it's not that we only paddle with our club members- we readily paddle with guys from other clubs for downhill runs, and we see them at the races, or training sessions...
yes, an oc1 club will make it easier for new paddlers, but the fact is that the only way it'll fly is to incorporate the established oc1 paddlers, and speaking for myself, i don't have time for another club. maybe this is unique to our area, but i suspect not. maybe it'll be better for new paddlers to associate with an established OCC, and train with those paddlers in whatever capacity they can, even if they don't race. and a problem that comes up is that since oc1 is mostly an individual activity, it'll be tricky for a club to take on the liability for oc1 paddlers without adding rules, which would defeat the purpose of paddling an oc1.
of course there are a few scenarios where it could happen. one is a group of unaffiliated paddlers to go ahead and start up a club- whether or not there's any veteran paddlers... another is that some veteran paddlers get burnt out on the oc6 and decide to only paddle oc1 (happens alot) and start a club....
#13 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 10:14am
I agree with Dacho on most parts , One thing to keep in mind is our perception of what a "Club" is, We think of OC-6 clubs and the high demand of time and commitment, The idea of a OC-1 club weather it is it's own entity or part of an existing OC-6 club is that there are no obligations, A club may have several paddles set up during the week, maybe a guest speaker, a fun dinner just to hang out, If you may one or all it is up to you, I would encourage you to look at LA Tri club www.latriclub.com This could be a great template for a any club,
One comment "If they train up, they can come" . This is the sort of elitist attitude, A club could have levels of paddling that some are welcome some need more training to go on, Dume runs are the example that you need to be somewhat well established on your boat to do, A club could be a good place for people to learn, OC-1 has been lucky that as far as I know nobody has been killed. A few very close calls and many lost boats, It is only a matter of time, We as a community owe it to the sport to make it safe and have an environment for new paddlers to learn, Paddling OC-6 is only one solution, and will not work for everyone for many reasons.
#14 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 10:36am
In Seattle we have a one-man paddling club. There's no dues, or club meetings. No penalties for missing a paddle. We don't have uniforms or team jerseys. We go to all the same races, but that's because they're the only races around. Our skill level ranges from pretty OK, to pretty not so good, and even some guys who've only been on one-mans since the beginning of 2008.
All it is is an email list, and whoever wants to show up shows up. Yes, it's THAT easy.
As a side note, almost everyone who paddles one-mans with us invariably ends up paddling six-man with us during the summer too - what a great recruiting tool!
208!
#15 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 10:50am
In Maine we have a racing organization that is much like what goto describes in the Seattle area. The difference here is that our organization isn
t just for outrigger paddlers , its more a blanket organization that covers marathon , white water , kayaking and outrigger all in one place.New paddlers can gain from the experience of others and find people to train with etc...
Check out our websites:
http://www.mackro.org/
http://home.maine.rr.com/nesurfski/
#16 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 12:38pm
In Bellingham, everyone just meets a couple times a week on Lake Whatcom- surfskis, kayaks, oc1s, Spanish Galleons, whatevahs- and they do laps on the flat water. The skill levels range from damn near Olympic to total rookies, all are welcome and no one gets lost 'cause you're just going in circles on a lake. Not exactly a Dume run, but a good format for inclusiveness. Just watch out for the B-Ham Boyz( just joking).
#17 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 1:04pm
I just want to comment on the "elitist attitude".
If you want to get good in our sport you have to spend a lot of what we don't have. It's time, preferably on the water. Most of the time I'm racing to the beach to launch and get as much training before it's dark. Daylight saving time drives me batty by the way. When I started out in 1man I was the guy who trailed lonely in the back, for the longest time, and that was going out with my club members. It's kinda character building if you will. Once everybody realizes you're serious though they pay attention and you get helpful tips and you grow into who you'll be as a paddler. Show commitment not only in words but by paddling hard and the rewards will come. It's called 1 man not 6 man. In 6 man everybody relies on each other. The strongest carries the weakest and proudly so. In 1man we are really lone wolves. We are strokers, steersman, motors all wrapped into one. We are almost individual clubs when you think about it. Sure, we train together and push each other to no end but on race day it's you against the world. You want to be part of the wolf pack that gets together and meets on a very competitive individual level, you have to get with it. There is no holding hands in 1man, okay maybe in 2man but then they're not paddling and possibly doing weird things.
To all you guys who bought your own boats, with your own money, and spent countless hours on the water, in the winter, like mail men(sleet, hail, high water, whatever it takes) call yourselves proudly: "Elite Paddlers".
Nothing wrong with that.
Either you are the lead dog or the view never changes.
Beware though when you're "Elite" you have to back it up, every time!
The easy way is to join a club and go from there. I recommend it. The hard way is to go by yourself and expect everybody to help you find your way. I'm not in your club, remember.
And I don't owe anything for being a paddler.
#18 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 7:22pm
I forgot to be pc about the 1man/woman thing, my apologies.
All genders feel included please!
#19 Tue, 02/12/2008 - 7:23pm
You've been using Vegemite haven't you Painteur ?? not seen you this fired up before. I like it.. Must be time for another Dume Run.
About 70% of the men and 50% of the women in our Club paddle both OC1/2 and OC6, which is pretty good i think. The only official training day for oc1 is a weekly Monday nite time trial, most other OC1 training is up to the individuals organizing paddles with their mates. This works really well as we have undercover lockup storage for 60 canoes and a base to launch from but no actual schedules to keep to.
With this set up we can paddle all year round (yes we're blessed with year long paddling weather) using the oc1 as an extra training platform and the people who do both are usually the best paddlers in the OC6.
I guess if we didn't have the facilities things may be different, but it works really well for us, but i am dumbfounded why more of those OC1/2 paddlers in our club that own canoes don't race them, that really baffles me.
Cheers Rambo
#20 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 12:35am
OC-1 Club would be nice, but no feasable. Most here have pointed to paddlers what basically already own a one-man.
A real club would have a few club one-man for beginners to learn on, and/or use to practice with until they can afford their own kanu.
In NYC, my club owns 2 one-man for training purposes. Even though we are not a OC club, I do give lessons to the newbies.
What I'm saying is that unless you have a group of paddlers with your own kanu, it is hard to form an OC-1 'Club' and introduce new paddlers unless your already a paddling club in another form.
I try to have a few sessions where I get a few paddlers, using our club boats as well as the less than handful (and I mean very less) of OC-1 paddlers (own kanu) and put some miles of water under us.
#21 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 6:02am
It isn't vegemite just walnuts Rambo.
We have the same situation where we have now +- 30 private OC1's in our club and only 4-5 of us race. Call me co-baffled. I can't figure this one out either.
#22 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 6:39am
I
m not too surprized that you guys are seeing lots of paddlers that dont race. I`ve had lots of people asking me about the availability of a touring outrigger canoe. These people have no intention of racing at all.Racers are fanatical really when you think about it . I know I am.
In the future we will begin to see outrigger canoes built to carry gear for camping . Maine is perfect for this kind of paddling.
#23 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 6:50am
carrying gear? aren't they called CANOES? :)
#24 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 7:29am
Funny you guys mention canoes made for cruising. Most times a manufacturer tries to produce a cruiser, it sells like crap. How many Aloha's do you see out on the water? Anyone even remember them? The Aloha was Karel's attempt to get into the entry level/touring market. It fell on it's face because no one bought it.
#25 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 7:56am
Sorry, forgot to mention our club also has 2 OC2 and 4 OC1 club boats. The OC2's are always being used.
FuseRider, i agree, there does seem to be a interest in OC1/2 from paddlers who normally paddle flat water river type races.
As you know, Dave Anderson won the solo class in the 2007 Missouri 340 (mile) canoe race last July paddling an OC-1 beating more traditional craft like fast marathon canoes.
Second place went to a NZ unlimited racing kayak,
3rd place was a 19.5' Texas Water Safari canoe,
4th and 5th were fast touring kayaks.
It's interesting to note that he paddled some of the race using a 2 blade kayak paddle as well as a std outrigger paddle, being stable was a huge advantage and nodding off on the oc1 meant that he did not take a dunking (it's a non stop race)
This win created a huge interest in this type of crafts suitability in these type of races, as did my 2nd placing in the Red X Marathon (404kms) in an OC2.
Missouri 340
http://rivermiles.com/mr340/
Red X Marathon http://rambos-locker.blogspot.com/2008/01/red-cross-murray-ultra-maratho...
I don't expect to see a mass move over to Oc1, as it's not traditional in these parts, but more and more are beginning to appear and you don't get the "Training Wheel" comments anymore.... hahaaaa.
Cheers Rambo
#26 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 12:15pm
painteur said "It isn’t vegemite just walnuts Rambo"
no, mate, it's the sludge in the bottom of beer vats - the perfect training food!
#27 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 12:14pm
That's right Captn... and if it's from beer it must be good right boys.
Cheers Rambo
#28 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 12:18pm
I played George Thorogood's "Bad To The Bone" while I read painteur's last post. You are so sexy when you get fired up like that!
#29 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:13pm
Holy Moley-that Missouri river race sounds crazy! When you think about races like that one and Rambo's race, it sure makes a 3-4 hr. training run seem easy. Very inspirational!
#30 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:30pm
My club in Vancouver has about two dozen OC1s (as well as 7 OC6s, 6 dragon boats and a bunch of kayaks and marathon canoes). The OC1s are used all year by OC6 and dragon boat paddlers for cross training. The really serious paddlers probably go out 2-3 times a week in the team boats and 2-3 times a week in the solo boats.
As far as racing goes, we don't have a 1-man vs 6-man season (due to the climate). Most of the regattas have OC6 teams racing on the Saturday followed by OC1/OC2/surfski (aka small boats) racing on the Sunday.
For the curious, the complete schedule of Canadian outrigger races is here:
http://www.canadianoutrigger.com/schedule.cfm
and my club's web site is here:
http://www.fcrcc.com
#31 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 3:19pm
Jim I'm glad you got a rise out of my post.
#32 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 4:17pm
Actually, I was going to respond to the "elitism" remark in a like manner. One time, we had this guy basically demanding to race with us because our club is on public property and he felt he deserved a shot for some reason. We told him he had little chance of racing with us that season, not that we're very good or anything, but the guy was basically a novice 60 year old paddler. Anyways, he got all disgruntled and called us elitist, which is hilarious because Goto is the only guy in our little club that could evn remotely be described as an elite paddler. So if people like that feel snubbed, all they have to do is train up, like dacho says, and join the ranks of the "elite" like painteur apparently has. I don't think it's personal, you just have to paddle at a certain level to train with a given group of paddlers on oc1, regardless of club affiliation. In my opinion it's more of a safety concern than anything else. That being said, it was kind of cool being called "elitist" for once!
#33 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 4:41pm
Easy there Jim, if anything I'm aspiring to be an elite paddler. I just have a lot of respect for guys my age, or any age for that matter who used to :) beat me by 10 minutes or more.
The most important point you make however is about safety.
Elite means: "The best or most skilled members of a group" as per answer.com. Under adverse conditions even the best or most skilled paddlers may jeopardize their own safety by having to look out for the newbie who took too large a bite.
On the other hand I do have a soft spot for newbies especially when they are hot to trot, can hardly contain themselves and you know they are addicted before they even took the first hit of ____.
They get free use of my second boat, which used to be my first love.
#34 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 6:13pm
I think a lot of clubs have a "recreational paddler" category -- reduced fees, no racing, no real commitment. If the aspiring OC1 paddler signed up as a recreational paddler at the beginning of the season, he/she could receive technique lessons along with the other beginning paddlers, then skedaddle when things started getting more competitive during the heart of the season (if he/she didn't get sucked into the whole thing and fork over full dues in order to race). Just another option for those who want to pay money and/or can't find anyone nice enough to help them for free...
I haven't heard anyone in favor of the idea actually come right out and say that they would be willing to (or are going to) organize an OC1 club.
#35 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 9:01pm
I have always done individualistic sports. I have no one but myself to credit or blame. I value other peoples time so if I want something from them (help/etc) I pay them $$ to speak to their self interest and respect that they owe me nothing because I bought a boat. My own experience in developing a Kettlebell club in southern cal had a different tone. We would workout at santa monica pier. People would come up and I would enthusiatically try to give them the best experience with (IMO) the greatest portable fitness tool on the planet. I dont sell, or charge anything, I just share something I have a passion for. The more inexperienced a person is, the more I dig teaching...the best way to learn is to teach. That's who I am, people dont have to earn my respect by pressing 48kgs before they can hang. My friend is buying a boat next week and I am working on a third....Then we will have a "club," newcomers, dorks with gloves tape and surf wax welcome.
#36 Thu, 02/14/2008 - 12:19am
Oceanohana should put a "club" format together and see how it works out-it could be the start of something great. We have a standing "fun" run every Sunday for all levels of paddlers and put people together to encourage the "buddy" system and stop at points along the way to let the slower people catch up - we keep an eye on eachother for safety. We usually have 10-20 canoes but have actually had up to 60 for the Sunday run. And believe me, it is an all out race for most of us from point to point. Everyone has a good time. Beer at the end of the run and potluck sometimes.
Another important thing that should happen and may in some places, is to have a summer race series - maybe once a month in July and August which can serve as a fund raiser for the OC6 clubs. Paddle hard and paddlefast. Like NAppy says," its all about training and how bad you want to pull the paddle!"
#37 Wed, 02/13/2008 - 10:28pm
I'm one of the land-locked people who now have an interest in OC-1 since Dave Anderson came in and suprised us all last year in the Missouri River 340. I was in last year's race in a kayak and will this year be paddling in a 4-man Safari racing canoe with ZRE in hand.
However, with Dave's success, I want to know what would be the fastest OC-1 for just such a long-distance river race. It's not likely I'll paddle on the ocean, but I am very intrigued by the OC as a viable river racer for this 340-mile event.
What do you all recommend and why?
Thanks,
Dan "Osprey" Grubbs
#38 Sun, 07/06/2008 - 2:47pm
Um, I just read a forum with a real similar question today?
#39 Sun, 07/06/2008 - 3:21pm
I apologize if I've violated a forum taboo. I'll not continue this question on this thread and leave it to the other thread. Sorry jpi.
Thanks for your patience,
Dan
#40 Sun, 07/06/2008 - 4:42pm
Are the river races typicaly flat water?? I would think a rudderless V1 (tahitian style). If you need steering I'd still go with the V1 and modify/add steering for the fastest oc1.....imho
#41 Sun, 07/06/2008 - 4:53pm
no sweat at all just crackin jokes. it happens to everyone.
#42 Sun, 07/06/2008 - 7:18pm
Thanks, jpi. Be sure to give me your thoughts on my question in the other forum. Our river racing is growing in popularity in the Midwest and everyone involved is trying to break open the secret of the right boat for the Missouri River and a race of 340 miles.
#43 Mon, 07/07/2008 - 8:29am
Ive only been paddling for a year but do paddle quite a bit and have had 4 boats. The first was a hypr, the 2nd was a hypr to replace the first under warranty. I ordered the 3rd because of the 2nd hypr and bought the 4th waiting for the third to arrive and loved it so much that I sold the 3rd when it came. Whatever. The one thing ive learned is that you HAVE TO PADDLE IT TO KNOW. And not just once. You ask what the best canoe for flat water is. What if it was a known fact that boat a was the fastest hull design on flat water anywhere hands down no questions. So you plop down the 3 or 4 grand for one and get out there and after 30 or 40 minutes or whatever the seating and foor position just doesnt jive with you and cause major cramping or pain, or whatever but it just doesnt work for you. I am only 150 pounds and live in flat water Kona and I ended up falling in love with a Zephyr. I know im losing time on flat water races but it just works for me. Its crazy comfortable and when the bumps do come its one if the top boats (once I learn how to paddle in the surf). Hurricane, Makia, Nai Iki (sp?), are said to be great flat water canoes. How they would work on a river I have no idea as far as your rudder questions go. Its actually a tough question and I think thats why people here give such a hard time over it. Its like asking what the fastest running shoe is.
Rambo - What were some of the 1 mans used in that week long race you did a while back?
#44 Mon, 07/07/2008 - 3:52pm
jpi,
Thanks much for the insights. I'll take what you said to heart. Rambo replied in the other forum thread and even addressed the rudder issue.
Back to talking about OC clubs!
Thanks,
Dan
#45 Mon, 07/07/2008 - 4:49pm
As I read the title of this post, the first thing that came to mind was a OC-1 halau! Isn't paddling supposed to be the official state sport?
In anycase, it seems odd to me that in some parts of the states, Canada and Europe, they have huge halaus to store rowing shells. ergometers, kayaks, weight training equipment, cooking etc yet, we don't have any such facility here that even comes close in comparison.
Personally, I think it would be nice to have the halau for OC-1s, OC-2s and Surfskis and pay some rental/membership fee for that rather than to pay for membership to a club without a facility/equipment access.
At the moment, it just seems easier to call people up or just go out and meet ppl and arrange future training sessions in a more informal basis.
If you talk to some of the people out paddling on their OC-1s, I'm sure you'll find some that would be keen to meeting up for training runs.
=)
#46 Tue, 07/08/2008 - 2:50pm