I am new to paddling. Like 6 months new. I want to try and train for the maui to molo race and would like any input as to the types of training schedules people recommend. Unfortunately I had to get a Hypr canoe to start off and I wouldnt trust that canoe to a race like that but I dont think my new Pegasus will make it in time to train with it for that race but still would like to know some kind of training schedule. On a side note I have to give a huge Mahalo to all the Kona paddlers at the harbor. They are the ones who taught me to paddle and welcomed me like a long time local. They are the best.
Submitted by jpi92109 on Sun, 03/02/2008 - 9:31pm
run 3 xs a week for about 30-45 minutes. and paddle as much as you can. once every week its huge to do a 2hr plus run. gotta condition for that maui to molo distance
#1 Sun, 03/02/2008 - 10:50pm
Right on man, thanks! Would it maybe be too much to do a 2+ hour run more than once a week?
#2 Sun, 03/02/2008 - 11:11pm
Remember that real endurance takes at least two years of steady training in any sport. What seems really tiring now, will be way easier next year, and easier yet the next year (taking for granted that you're training steadily). For now paddle as much as you can, but pay attention to your shoulders. When they tell you to back off, back off.
#3 Mon, 03/03/2008 - 5:24am
mabey add some weight traing too
#4 Mon, 03/03/2008 - 5:30am
jp, It's probably better to keep the long ones to once a week or so, as you're building up the muscle memory. Young Buck is right, those longer runs are absoulutely critical, though. The great Canadian marathoner, Serge Corbin, who also won the Channel a couple times, told my paddling buddy that the 6-7 hour Saturday runs are the key to building endurance as a long distance paddler.
#5 Mon, 03/03/2008 - 6:05am
This is all good advice. I agree that one long run a week is good enough. If you do it right, those long workouts should take a few days of recovery. Trying to do 2 a week in your first year is asking for trouble. The long runs are key for conditioning but just as important you will learn what you need to eat and drink. You will also learn when in the run works best for you. Everyone is a little different so just following someone else's program might not work.
My other advice is to find good training partners. There's a ton of paddlers in Kona so that shouldn't be a problem. Find someone that is near your level and ideally just a bit faster. For me, I've learned the most about paddling by chasing people that were just faster than me. If they're too fast, they're gone right off the bat and you're paddling alone. When someone is next to you or slightly ahead, you can play around to find out how to go faster, maintain the same speed with less effort, etc.
#6 Mon, 03/03/2008 - 8:03am
This is all great advice, thanks guys. I see the point of only doing one crazy run a week. I have funky shoulders so I stay away from the weights but paddling doesnt seem to bother them at all, one of the reasons I fell in love with this sport. Ive spent the last several months chasing plenty of the Tui Tonga guys and Kai Opua and some others and that has probably been the greatest thing for me as far as improving. I gotta say that some of the older guys are the real hammers though!I just wanted some guidance as to some kind of schedule so thanks. I ran for 80 minnutes tonight and tomorrow is chase day at the harbor so watch out next year....maybe.
#7 Mon, 03/03/2008 - 8:49pm
One last question. I think ive pretty much figured out my diet and hydration for normal runs but how do some of you alter that for a long run? For something like Maui to Molo or just a 2 to 4 hour run? I read a lot about having to add in some protein somehow and things like that. Thanks to everyone for putting up with my stupid questions but im just simply amazed at how much info there is on this site and the incredible feedback ive been getting.
#8 Mon, 03/03/2008 - 10:57pm
When I do a longer run, I'll eat a Clif bar (10 grams protein) about halfway through. I find this helps me recover from the workout much more quickly than when I allow myself to get fully depleted. This wouldn't really help much in race conditions, though. There must be some way of adding protein to your drink mix for racing, maybe whey powder. With all this stuff, you'll just have to find out what you can consume while paddling without nauseating yourself. It seems there's a wide variation among individuals as to what they can stomach while excercising.
#9 Tue, 03/04/2008 - 6:24am
Clif bars are the s*** for sure but yeah, wouldnt really work in a race. I seem to be pretty tolerant for most sports foods so I think im might give the HEED product a try.
#10 Tue, 03/04/2008 - 7:19am
Check out the Hammer Nutrition site, Heed is fine for anything under two hours but once you start the longer paddles you will need some protein to stop muscle breakdown. Try their Sustained energy or Perpeteum, doesn't taste so great but is awesome fuel.
#11 Tue, 03/04/2008 - 7:53am
If you mix Perpetuem with fruit juice and a lot of ice (to keep it cold and water it down) it tastes MUCH better. I'm a big fan of Recoverite smoothies too.
#12 Tue, 03/04/2008 - 8:21am
I consider it kind of a pain in the a** but my metabolism is insanely high. I might even try that perpetuem on a normal run. Thanks.
#13 Wed, 03/05/2008 - 12:00am
Endurox and Accelerade have a similar protien:carbohydrate ratio to the Cliff bars 1:4 I think. I find Accelerade a little thinner than endurox. If you are looking for some protien in your energy drink these may suit you.
#14 Wed, 03/05/2008 - 3:17am
I purchased the perpetuem while in oahu this week so well see how it goes. thanks for all the input guys.
#15 Fri, 03/07/2008 - 6:57pm
i've tried all the stuff, but my advice-LIFE FORCE V. the energy lasts very long and it feels pure. best sports drink ever.
#16 Sat, 03/08/2008 - 7:47am
I like Perpetuem because it doesn't contain caffeine, ginseng, or anything else that I recognize as a stimulant. It seems to be simply good nutrition designed to help your body perform better during long training runs. Life Force V contains caffeine, green tea extract, and ginseng. Make my heart palpitate just thinking about it (and not in a good way). Eh, some people like the caffeine, I know...
Here are links in case anyone else wants to read the nutritional info:
http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HNT?PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD.ID=4047&OMI=&AMI...
http://www.lifeforcev.com/Benifits.asp
#17 Sat, 03/08/2008 - 4:46pm
Yeah I try to stay away from as many "stimulants" as I can. here is how my day went. I woke up and had 3 packets of oatmeal with fruit. plenty of water. Paddled 2 hours later for about 2 hours including sprints to finish with a bottle of water with 1 scoop heed. stopped for about 30 minutes and had about half a bottle of water with 1 scoop perpeteum. went back out for another 9 miles roughly at a slower pace with only a water bottle. Now I have never gone that long before, probably close to 30% more than I have ever paddled in one session and I barely made it back. I could tell blood sugar was low and had truly "zero" energy. I can understand why this hgappened but what would some of you done differently for the same session?
#18 Sat, 03/08/2008 - 5:24pm
Wow, sounds like about 4 hrs of paddling, some of it high intensity. Most people, even elite paddlers, would be fried after such a feat. Maybe add some fat/protein to the breakfast. Didn't you say you were just starting out? It takes years to build the muscle memory for that type of distance, in my opinion. I'm no expert, however. If you're super duper serious like that, maybe you should have Alan Carlson design you a program. Just use the search feature. He posts under the name AlanC. He's the only physiologist type I know of who has an extensive paddle sports background.
#19 Sat, 03/08/2008 - 5:51pm
Right on. Thanks!
#20 Sat, 03/08/2008 - 6:08pm
jpi92109:
This is from the Perpetuem canister (also on the website)
Suggested Doses by Body Weight*
Up to 120 lbs (approx 54.5 kg) - up to 1 scoop/hour
120-155 lbs (approx 54.5-70 kg) - up to 1.5 scoops/hour
155-190 lbs (approx 70-86 kg) - up to 2 scoops/hour
190+ lbs (86+ kg) - up to 2.5 scoops/hour
I don't know how much you weigh, but I think you probably could have used more than one scoop... You probably would have still been tired, but more muscle fatigue than the low blood sugar/depleted feeling.
#21 Sat, 03/08/2008 - 6:54pm
Yeah I saw that. I weigh about 160 but I wanted to take it easy on the quantity until I saw how it affected my stomach. Didnt want to get out and have stomach problems. Instead I had fatigue problems! Either way it was a huge learning experiennce. I think i was doomed for a night of soreness either way but I have some ideas on what to do different next time. I drank the perpeteum in a short period of time. i think next week I will bring it with me and sip on it slowly through a camelback. Well see.
#22 Sat, 03/08/2008 - 6:59pm
In long distance racing. if you keep the carbs and hydration up at a level higher than what you are metabolizing, the body will burn stored fat for hours, even days. If you run out of carbs you cannot burn fat, as fat burns in carbohydrate flame.
In a recent 400km OC Ultra Marathon where i raced for 5 days for an average of 7 hours per day, all i ate during paddling were sqeezies (CarboShots from the local supermarket $2.50 ea) every half hour and a quarter of a Powerbar every hour. If you calculate the calories ingested from these, it obviously will not sustain the energy required to paddle for 7 hours, the bulk of it came from stored body fat and liver top ups from recovery food eaten after the previous days paddling and stomach contents from that mornings breakfast.
Specific training for long distance, is what prepares the body to efficiently burn stored fats, even the leanest person has days worth of energy stores in fat, but not carbs.
I believe SOME of the so called "high tech" supplements, can provide protein in a formulation that will be converted to energy by the body quicker than just plain food items, but this is something each individual needs to trial themselves. I've found it best to keep it simple and stick to what has worked for me in the past.
In Ultra distance racing, the better prepared you are on ALL fronts, the more time available to focus on racing and other the many other "walls" you encounter during the race.
You can read more about the race here -
http://rambos-locker.blogspot.com/2008/01/red-cross-murray-ultra-maratho...
Cheers Rambo
#23 Sat, 03/08/2008 - 9:20pm
I prefer as many real foods as possible with the exception of while paddling for the ease of carrying it. Ive never heard it put quite like you did about the carbs and stored fat and that made it a lot more clear. It sounds like I could increase my fat intake(good of course) and try to take in even more carbs than I do now. That might be a good start because I know I dont take in enough fat as it is. On another note, 5 days for 7 hours!!!! My friends think I have issues!
Again, thanks for the info.
#24 Sat, 03/08/2008 - 10:15pm
Even when it seems like you're not eating much fat, you're probably getting enough. I didn't mean eat a pound of bacon, more along the lines of a little olive oil with the pasta. More bacon for me that way.
#25 Sun, 03/09/2008 - 1:52am
Also the good part of fat intake is that it slows down the carb uptake so you don't get the sugar crash.
A shot glass of olive oil works for me. Cold pressed extra virgin, preferably from Tuscany (Italy). It has the highest amount of antioxidants.
#26 Sun, 03/09/2008 - 5:20am
And don't forget to put some "glide" on your butt, I learned the hard way, LOL. I am new to paddling but have done my share of endurance training (mostly cycling) and I like to do three scoops of accelerade and one scoop of endurox per 44oz of water which I drink over the course of two hours. (my weight is down to 255 so figure that) I do 11 miles on weds and sun (4.5 laps around Naples island in Long Beach) which even though I feel like I am working pretty hard takes 2:05. I have gone from Naples to the queen mary 14 miles round trip and I added a butt agony break and ate powerbar quarters. I take endurox and a smoothie after. I like the nalgene bladder better than camelback because the gauge of the tubing and bite peice is bigger so you dont have to take so long to get your fluid in. That is perfectly dialed in nutrition for me.
I am surprised that the sudden addition of paddling to my life has not caused and major aches...my golfers elbow is slightly worse but that is it. I have been doing external rotator exericizes with a "shoulder horn" after paddling and shoulders feel fine.
I have decided that 11 miles is the max I want to do on my regular training...I can see where multi hours every week would start being not so fun for me. I have done many year of pain, agony and dread workouts and I dont want to go longer at this point, but I would LOVE to go faster. It seems like I end up with almost the excact same speed per my timer the last 5 times out, 5mph over 11 miles. I really like the feel of the long twisting stroke but I think shorter and quicker is the way to get the speed up. Sorry for ramble!
#27 Sun, 03/09/2008 - 7:44pm
Losing some weight would be an easy way to go faster. Most of the oc1s aren't designed with the 255lber in mind. We have a guy who can move the Kaimana pretty well when he's in shape at about 250, but he's 6'10". It would be interesting to see how fast the guy would be if there were a boat comfortable enough for him to train more.
#28 Mon, 03/10/2008 - 5:53am
Well im getting the fueling down but heres another question. Paddled 5 hours today over about 20 miles. It wasnt completely intentional but had to follow the surf so we turned aorund after a couple if hours. Either way, upon arrival I was COMPLETELY depleted. Ran out of fluids with about an hour left. Any suggestions what to ingest immediately after? And then any more suggestions as what to eat later on to replace the thousands of burned calories? Protein , carbs, whatever. Thanks
#29 Tue, 04/01/2008 - 9:07pm
I got an idea. Why don't you drink a case of red bull before you paddle so it won't take 5 hours to paddle 20 miles!
#30 Tue, 04/01/2008 - 10:31pm
How long have you been paddling? Id like to se you try it after paddling for only 8 months. Enjoy your San Diego paddling! How is the water temp this time of year btw? There are alot of wiseasses on here but most of them are in good fun. You signed up and made your first post just to be a prick!
#31 Tue, 04/01/2008 - 10:38pm
After a long workout or race when I`ve either bonked or close to it , I first drink chocolate milk , da kine without the growth hormones. Then I follow with lots of pasta , fresh fruit and veggies.
Hard to get Vegemite around here but, I hear that works good too.
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#32 Wed, 04/02/2008 - 3:05am
Beer
#33 Wed, 04/02/2008 - 3:08am
thanks fuze. thats what i was looking for.
#34 Wed, 04/02/2008 - 4:12am
dito
#35 Wed, 04/02/2008 - 6:36am
Naked Juice's Protein Zone is good after working out. 38 grams of whey and soy protein to help your body repair and recover, plus all the sugars from the fruits in it to start replenishing your glycogen stores. I'm sure you can find powders and mixes with similar profiles at the health food store or online. Make sure you get the proteins AND carbs though. Your body will use whatever calories it can to replace what you've burned, and if all you intake is protein, most of it will be used for calorie replacement instead of muscle repair.
#36 Wed, 04/02/2008 - 6:40am
right on. thanks guys!
#37 Wed, 04/02/2008 - 9:04am
Try the endurox or a similar recovery drink. This is the one and only time SUCROSE is useful as the enzymes that shunt glycogen into the muscles are active and it will not have the usual adverse effect "carbohydrate hell" that is usually does. The sucrose also creates an environment in which branched chain aminos will be used very efficiently. The antioxidants included in these formulas helps with oxidative damage and inflammation from the training. Protein Zone or a fresh fruit smoothie with a similar profile of nutrients would be an ideal next "layer" of nutrition right before the pasta, fruit and veggies..
While it may initally sound low tech, fuze's suggestion of choc milk has been studied to be an ideal immediate post workout fuel that has many qualities similar to the endurox: fast sugars, insulin spike to drive the aminos, etc. I just like having the powder and not having to worry about keeping it cold. If I just take solid food right after, without the layers of recovery drink, smoothie, I really notice it takes a lot longer to recover, with the endurox and the "layered" nutrition you really recover quick. You should feel it and not have to take anyones word for it, you will know you have it right.
Having a hydration system with the right mixture (cytomax, accelerade, hammer etc) and knowing how much to take at what pace is huge. If you can pop some branched chain aminos at some point you will spare your muscle tissue through the long event.
While I am new to paddling I have done a lot of endurance stuff and have been around the block with nutrition.
My question to you was how did your left hip survive the five hours? I would love to get out there for a long trip but after 2 hours my I have to take a break and my arse it about toast. Hoping a seat modification ala rambo will help.
Congrates on a really long paddle!
#38 Wed, 04/02/2008 - 9:30pm
someone mentioned paying for a technique coach? if you are that serious about racing, you should hire a coach to design workouts for you and to advise you on nutrition as well. to me that would be money well spent. i'd rather pay for something that will benefit my life as a whole, not just my paddling life.
luckily for me i am surrounded by guru's that share tons of advice. SWEET! most good paddlers don't mind giving a scrub like me advice since it will never come back to bite them in the ass.
#39 Wed, 04/02/2008 - 10:19pm
wow good question cuz its actually pretty good. normally i wouldnt have lasted more than 2 hours. I got a "hot seat". the seat i have on my zephyrwas sized for someone about 6 inches farther back. i placed the hot seat about 4 or 5 inches farther foward and my foot barely even starts to tingle now. i might add that im about 3 or 4% body fat so i dont have much padding. after about 3 hours or so my hip still started to hurt quite a bit even thoughmy foot felt fine. getting in the water and stretching helped but not for very long. i finally moved about 3 or 4 inches farther foward bringing my knees to an amost 90 degree bend. my hip pain dropped by probably 95%. i do need to move the hot seat foward but it worked for the next 2 hours so it seems to work for me.
#40 Wed, 04/02/2008 - 10:38pm
Being on the big island is great because there are so many great paddlers here that are extremely willing to teach and critique so that side is easy here.
#41 Wed, 04/02/2008 - 10:43pm
I like a good blast of Dianabol after a tough paddle. Instant recovery and the added bonus of yelling at cars and people on the way home.
#42 Thu, 04/03/2008 - 3:42am
Thats great! sometimes i really get a good laugh from these comments!
#43 Thu, 04/03/2008 - 4:08am
training.16 plus hours a week...normal training 5:30 am wake, down to the boathouse by 6am paddle till 8am work, back at the boathouse for 5:30pm paddle till 8:30pm and weekends go long maybe 3-4 hr runs each day.life is paddling...lol
#44 Thu, 04/03/2008 - 11:14am
wow! i wish i could train that much. maybe i can work up to that but that is amazing. im actually jealous just because you get to spend so much time on the water. paddling til 8:30 though, doesnt it get kinda dark?
damn, now you have me thinking about doing more short runs before working at 8 just to work on technique! mmmmm, saltwater on the brain!
#45 Thu, 04/03/2008 - 9:18pm