How much of a factor is the weight of the canoe on performance?

Maybe safer to put it on the canoe?

#2 Tue, 04/22/2008 - 4:25pm

them 2 canoes if the heavier one is stiffer I would take that one . I would say the rigidness of a canoe is moor important if the weight difference is 6 lbs.if they are simalar then the light one.
Aloha

#4 Tue, 04/22/2008 - 5:56pm

Jibofo I agree with you in terms of it being a very small percentage of speed lost per stroke but also consider how many strokes you take per race.

ex: these aren't real numbers but lets say the percentage lost per stroke in meters is equal to 1cm loss in glide for every six pounds added to the canoe. Ok let say you average 60 strokes per minute and you have a 60 minute race. 1cm * 60spm= 60cm lost per minute. Now with a loss 60cm per minute and a 60 minute race thats 36m.

lets say that your race lasts 4 hours that puts you at 144m behind the canoe that ways 6 pounds less than yours.

#6 Tue, 04/22/2008 - 7:10pm

well we are in distance season

#8 Tue, 04/22/2008 - 8:49pm

Look back into ocean ohana's post with his time and heart rate data from adding weight to his canoe...nothing difinitive but interesting none the less. There is also some good stuff in that thread about weight and drag.

#10 Tue, 04/22/2008 - 10:40pm

Tpoppler
Your right, very small differences add up over the time and distance of a race. Of course racing side by side, maybe the paddler in the heavier canoe will put out that fraction of a percent more power needed to stay in contact with the paddler in the lighter canoe.

#12 Wed, 04/23/2008 - 3:57am

Weight difference of 6lbs ain't that much, unless you're aware of it...

Now that you know, when you're in that heavy boat it'll affect your state of mind when sucking wind and racing next to one of the lighter boats under a faster paddler...

Basically, you're screwed. Get the light boat. Just make sure you don't lose to the heavy boats...

But if you like the comfort and style of the heavy boat chances are you'll spend more time in it. You'll get faster sooner and be able to smoke the lighter boats b/c you're a better paddler...maybe.

#14 Wed, 04/23/2008 - 4:35am

here is the results of just one test on this very subject.
Using a Fuze that has a hull weight of 26.8 lbs with seat and rudder, I did 8 .15 mile sprints with a rest time of 1 min 7 seconds on average. I did a about 11 minute / .9 mile warm up that included two .15 mile sprints. I took a 5 lb weight that was attached to the seat and placed it on a floating platform, I then did eight .15 mile sprints, Sprints 1,2 and 5, 6 had regular hull weight. The 3,4 and 7,8 had the added 5 lbs. The conditions were pretty perfect for this testing, Open bay, no wind no tidal flow, No chop. deep water.
Here are the numbers.
Max speed w/o weight 7.7 max speed with weight 7.9
Fastest Time, W/o weight 1:21 with weight 1:21
Max Heart reate w/o weight 178 with weight 177
The averages
W/o weight Time 1:22 Max Speed 7.63 HR Ave. 156 max 173
with weight Time 1:23 Max Speed 7.7 HR Ave. 160 max 174

I also did two .68 mile runs one with one without the weight.
Time without weight 6.08 max speed 7.3 Ave HR 172 max 181
Time with weight 6:13 Max speed 7.2 Ave HR 167 Max 178

A lot more data needs to bo collected, I would love to see someone else do the same type of testing, Longer pieces, maybe a larger weight,

You can see all the data at this link
http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/invitation/email/accept.mb?senderPk.p...
The first test sprint without weight starts with Lap 4.

Have fun with this,

Another key number I did not list in my original post, The .15 mile distance too about 92 strokes to complete with the added weight, it took 97 strokes without,
At some point I am going to redo the test, I will go over a larger distance, and the time taken from a boat already in motion, It is obvious that a heavier boat will take longer to get up to speed, But mass in motion stays in motion, A heavier hull might be faster. I think a lot will also depend on conditions.

#16 Wed, 04/23/2008 - 11:06am

Kayaker, either that or you could blindfold the paddler the whole time, that way he can't tell if you put the weight on or not.

Here's an experience I once had. I paddled for a while on a 20 something pound stingray. when I finished I had 4 beers. Then a buddy of mine shows up and wants me to paddle with him again. I went way slower on the 20 something pound stingray+ 4 beers trial. This is a pretty inaccurate trial though because fluid ounces is different that dry ounces, BUT it does show the weight of the 4 beers in my belly slowed me down big time. I didn't need a GPS or HR monitor to tell me that.

I hope this has helped.

#18 Wed, 04/23/2008 - 12:02pm

Pretty interesting results, OceanOhana. By your numbers I would assume that inertia may be as important or maybe more important than accelleration in figuring how to make a boat go fast. Jr, has said he likes the way his boat retains energy when connecting waves. The Zephyr isnt the lightest boat in the world but it glides well and doesnt give up speed .

I have 2 marathon boats almost identical , one of them is 18 feet long , carbon fiber and nomex honeycomb construction , weighs 18 lbs. The other boat is 18 feet 6 inches and is made of carbon , nomex honeycomb and kevlar and weighs 23 lbs,
The 186" boat has a better glide and over distance is a better race boat than the smaller , lighter boat . I still use the smaller boat for sprint racing at distances no more than 500 meters per race. The light weight boat is smoking fast as long as its being paddled at sprinting effort . At normal race pace it`s not as fast as the heavier boat. Other factors that contribute to the difference between these two boats is thier volume below the waterline. The longer boat has more volume and floats higher on the water than the smaller boat.

http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/

#20 Wed, 04/23/2008 - 1:00pm

if you have averages with canoes, like. length 21 feet width 16 inches bend 3 inches and the canoe sinks 2.6 inches when loaded with a 180lbs paddler and you were to change the width to 13 inches and the canoe was to sink 4.1 iches in the water where water is slightly moor dence would it slow? or if you were to make the width18.5 inches and it would only sink 1 inch and float ontop of the water would it be faster?

Goto?

#22 Wed, 04/23/2008 - 7:43pm

Lets get some facts together .,weight equals displacment and roughly most new oc-1 have 17-18sq.ft of weted surface at displacment of lets say 170-180lbs and the increase in displacment for every 20lbs equals increase of weted surface by almost 1 sq.ft and in that part also increase of viscous drag(mayor part of overal drag) which for such an increase in weted surface doesnt increase quite proportionaly but a bit less probably no more than 1-2% over all which is well below of what you can measure by simple testing sugested above.
So the canoe weights when speaking of 3-5lb don't mean that much .
And there is no such thing as a to light canoe,there are only strong enough or to soft to be practical .

Filing canoes with gas is a funny idea but not practical as change in diplacment would be minimal(not enough volume) and many very light gasses also have very small molecules which in practice means they can leak trough walls of almost anything even metal not even bother to think of any gaps or joints.

#24 Thu, 04/24/2008 - 3:42am

There is a lighter canoes. A Hurricane is light apposed to a Zephyr is not as light , but still runs as fast and could handle moor situations better. And is close to the 6 lbs we were talking about. But not the identical design, and materials in the original question.

In the original question it couldn’t be the same materials or they would weigh the same; and the heavier one I’m guessing would have moor resign. and resign is not strength. But if its moor cloth it would be moor rigidness which would be better.

I think canoes could get much lighter as long as it does not take from the strength of the canoe or rigidness.

#26 Thu, 04/24/2008 - 5:58am

Yes but when it gets warmer and school is out we don’t really train them to race as much as to get out for a paddle and sight see even fish some will transition to racing at younger ages. our youngest is 7 he's my Jr. after the snow melts. but yes. keep in touch.

nvcc@shaw.ca

#28 Thu, 04/24/2008 - 9:15am

Ok poopoo, that was funny !
Now give me a beer, please.

#30 Sat, 04/26/2008 - 11:40pm