How similar is something traveling through the air compared to something traveling through the water. One is called aerodynamics. So what is the other called, aquadynamics? The reason I ask that is I like to golf. I also like to paddle. I was looking at a golf ball one day at the range and it hit me. The many dimples on a golf ball help improve the aerodynamics of the ball as it travels through the air allowing it to go farther and faster with a single stroke of the club. There is less wind resistance around the balls surface as it travels through the air as compared to a ball with a flat spherical surface. Could that same principle be applied to the hull of a canoe? in effect making it more aerodynamic in the water (or aquadynamic if that's even a word). The hull is of course flat. Would putting dimples similar to a golf ball on the hull of a canoe improve the overall speed and distance it would travel with each stroke of the paddle?
Submitted by SyrusG on Sun, 05/04/2008 - 12:29pm
In theory yep! Hence fish scales. And you will see on new swim suits they have designed a similar principle to air rate the water and break the surface friction. But to dimple or scale a whole hull would be too much of a mission
#1 Sun, 05/04/2008 - 12:40pm
You're forgeting the dimples on a golf ball plus the spin of the ball determine the flight path of the ball. Even with the dimples if there was no spin on the ball it wouldn't fly very straight. Just like a knuckle ball in baseball, no spin.
So, my theory is, get a good spin on your canoe by huli'ing a lot and see what happens.
#2 Sun, 05/04/2008 - 2:02pm
I am fully aware of the spin on the ball and how it affects the trajectory of an object in this case the golf ball. Even if a golf ball was flying through the air without any spin, the dimples will still affect how well it travels through the air. From my understanding the air inside the dimples tumble in a circular motion allowing the outside air to travel right on over the dimple without making contact with the ball thus minimizing wind resistance. Could that same principle be applied to the hull of a canoe?
P.S. I wouldn't want to be like you and break my ama by huli'ing so much. That's whats going to happen.
#3 Sun, 05/04/2008 - 2:23pm
I was looking at some of those slalem kayak they have a big dip in the bottom of the kayak.
#4 Sun, 05/04/2008 - 9:16pm
Hydrodynamics and yes, it is the root of many passionate discussions here...
#5 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 6:50am
Dimples are also used on carbon bike rims made by Zipp, supposedly for reduced drag.
#6 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 8:07am
I'm wondering due to the nature of our stroke ie, surging. If the diple or scale effect would lose it's... effect. I can see with a golf ball it has a pretty constant velocity through it's flight. And a rim on a wheel also. But the hull of a OC surges with our stroke. And it may in effect then cos some back eddies. It may on the other hand work on a kayak or ski, being twin blade. ?? I still don't know how it would be constructed tho.
#7 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 10:20am
http://www.zipp.com/Products/Rims/tabid/84/CategoryID/8/List/1/Level/1/P...
I think for canoe hulls it would have to be a secondary skin that gets bonded on.
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/allarticles/166403/dimpled-aerodynami...
#8 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 10:31am
I doubt the actual canoe terminal speed is significant enough for the dimples to have an effect. Same with the golf ball as it slows down.
One of the fastest fish in the ocean, up to 50mph - the Barracuda, might be a better place to look for ideas. Certainly Kayak K1 designers and coaches have studied it's movements in the water and some have adapted it's use of the "water wall" for propulsion in the kayak stroke technique.
You can use a similar technique on the OC1, using the small bumps coming at you from a front on angle and launching off the side, gains half a boat length every time if you time it right, try it. sometime.
Rambo
#9 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 12:06pm
Its all about the Reynolds Number:
The Reynolds Number is a nondimensional parameter defined by the ratio of dynamic pressure (Ï u2) and shearing stress (μ u / L) - and can be expressed as
Quite simple indeed.
#10 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 12:18pm
Thanks Rambo!!!
I love to talk hull dynamics...and we have been since the inception ocpaddler. I think we exhausted the dimple talk in a thread two years ago..and have since moved on to sharkskin technology, to foils, and to chines. It's about time we start talking paddling technique(s) and race tips again.
#11 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 12:29pm
I like the Rambo Number better
R+A+M+B+O = SUCCESS ON THE WATER
R = Race out buy a fast canoe
A = Access the best info
M = Make time for training
B = Be your best on race day
O = Occupy your space in the OC World
Quite simple really
Cheers Rambo
#12 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 12:36pm
Uno
Its crystal clear now. You da number man.
#13 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 12:37pm
You know it doesn't matter how smart you are if you can't articulate your knowledge to everyone. Just a thought that came to mind.
#14 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 2:01pm
Geez PooPoo, you want to elaborate on that one, sounds particularly nasty. Was it directed at anyone or just a general observation?
Rambo
#15 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 2:18pm
It wasn't nasty. Everyone posting now is just salty and pissed that they are not at the Kamanu grand opening winning Oc-1's, drinking, hanging out with Rock Stars, and watching the Limo and wondering who is showing up next. Is it Goto? Is it Jc 9?
Jack Johnson is probably pulling out his guitar right now......Damn!
#16 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 2:42pm
Maybe we can get Keizo to setup a live Cam broadcast of the party and stream it online so we can all enjoy it. Could be interesting.
Just need a good quality web cam or just feed the security cam output into the company sever.
How about it Guys.
Rambo
#17 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 3:11pm