I'm kicking this out there. As a novice paddler I have been getting on the water as often as I can and entering as many races as possible because as many of you have said, experience is everything. Something that I would like your input on is strategies for race starts. Lets just call it a 10mi race. Do you guys ball out for a certain amount of time or are you trying for a certain pace or ? I have overheard a guy saying that wherever you place after the start is where you will finish.
Submitted by Brady G on Mon, 05/05/2008 - 2:18pm
you have to go out with the leaders off the line , if you get dropped , draft the fastest boat you can stay with . Knowing how to wake ride is key if the waters` flat .
Use chine effect whenever possible , it `s a great way to make good time and move back into the race on the downwind leg.
Into the wind your chines ain`t gonna do squat. So make sure to rip it up on the downwind. Once you have a good gap , stomp on the gas till you get to the finish.
Always drink cytomax too , it`ll help you keep from bonking .
If you are a new paddler too much racing will burn you out. be sure to monitor your fitness and don
t go racing if youre tired .There`s quite a bit to learn in this game , be prepared to spend a few years gaining experience.
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#1 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 2:44pm
Here's a good strat: start the race super hard and sprint to the start. Then no matter how you finish you can tell all your buddies "sheez, I was kickin ass for a while, I was ahead of the winner, but if I had a better boat I would have won."
But then its always sad when you sprint off the start and end up in the back.
Poops
#2 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 3:05pm
Probably this would all depend on your individual overall race plan. Certainly you have to pace yourself based on your training feedback and results from other races. To improve and keep the pressure on, you might want to try and stay with someone slightly faster than yourself but look for opportunities to pass him that he may have missed.
I know your question specifically referred to starts, but should be part of an overall race plan. Some paddlers go out medium pace and then build though out, others smash the start and fade after 3/4 of the race, which usually is the slowest quarter time wise for most people.
A good flatwater paddler will hammer in those conditions to gain time on a better surfer, much like the 3 disciplines in Triathlon, knowing your strengths and weaknesses is the key.
You are right, by half way most of the finish positions are sorted, but don't be lulled into thinking that's how it has to be, training and planning can move you up the pack, that's what racing's about, not just participating.
If you look at the Molo Solo, Danny went out hard in his conditions knowing that Jr or Kai would surf better when surfing conditions developed.
Hope that gives you some food for thought.
Cheers Rambo
#3 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 3:04pm
Fuze is right if it's flat and ten miles or less. In flat water, if you are by yourself, you will quickly be left behind people in groups. Unless you're as fast as Danny Ching, he probably doesn't draft very much! In a longer race, you might have time to make more of a move, so the start isn't as critical.
#4 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 4:54pm
Thanks for the input. Here is a twist. Currents. What if you have the option of either falling in with a group that is slower than you to avoid the brunt of the current or hang it out against the main stream to push ahead?
#5 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 4:42pm
First long course race I did, everyone blasted off the start. No worries I thought, they'll settle in in a minute or two. I never saw them again till I was on the beach.
Long races are quite often settled in the first 20 minutes or so. After that you may gain or lose a couple of places, but if you're up front at that point you'll probably have a good result, and if you're way back, you're going to end up way back.
Work on being able to put out a really intense effort for 15 - 20 minutes and then be able to settle in.
#6 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 4:53pm
Marshall once told me, "Go hard until you die" To this day, at age 60+, drafting is still not part of his vocabulary.
#7 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 7:58pm
a lot of races are out and backs, or triangle courses... with the downwind leg at the end.. those who hit the bumps first have a huge advantage on those people still working their way up, and can open a small gap much larger, unless you're surfmaster.... no set answer, there's too many variables, and that's another one.. ultimately it's as hard as you can go over the course of the race... i can't remember any race that doesn't hurt.
#8 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 8:06pm
Always try to overtake the paddler before you and when it's done, you try to overtake the next... till the finish line.
#9 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 8:46pm
The winner of any race is the paddler with the FASTEST AVERAGE TIME, so being good in all the stages, will give you the best chance.
Cheers Rambo
#10 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 9:02pm
Another good tip is to always go to the briefing and study the course well, take into account the tides, currents and winds and if the race director says stay away from the islands as the current is strong out there its best to listen(eh Rambo) Im going in the epic race for the first time in a couple weeks and will be happy when we are 20 mins into it and have got the start out of the way I hope I dont use too much gas TRYING to stay with the front group as its going to be a long day, but a good day.
Kevlon
#11 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 9:39pm
Hahaa yes Kevy, even Rambo should have listened to the race director at the Nats. But i was following my race plan, which was to track Grant Hughes and partner on the OC2. Unknown to me, they weren't at the briefing so couldn't know of the current out at the island. I stuck to my plan and came unstuck, and paddled at between 5 and 7 kph into current for 2 hours according to my GPS, as well as the extra distance to go out there and back. Biggest mistake i ever made. But i did stick to my race plan.
You live and you learn.
Good luck in the Epic Solo Kevy
Guys look out for Kevy and say hello, buy him a beer. He's only a little bloke but he comes with a big heart. I luv him.
Cheers Rambo
#12 Mon, 05/05/2008 - 10:26pm
BradG, this is a handy form to have for race day, you can download a full size copy from my BOX Here
http://www.box.net/shared/ud91jgwlc0
Cheers Rambo
#13 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 12:25am
I'm with KGB, and probably in the minority, but for me there is no pride in drafting. I think you should rely on your own conditioning not the guy who is pulling you along the race course. This gives everyone a truer picture of your ability and conditioning.
I've done nearly all my racing in Hawaii where the conditions really don't make drafting a viable strategy. Often on the start you can't really help but fall in behind someone. But, in a Hawaii Kai race the pack breaks up after the turn at the blinker bouy and it's every man for himself. As it should be :).
I really can't imagine how you could feel any pride in drafting someone for the whole race and then passing them at the end.
My 2 cents.
#14 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 5:55am
VLT,
Yeah. In bike racing, we call them wheel suckers. People who never do their share of the work and try to sprint by at the end. Funny thing though, people who become known as wheel suckers seem to have a propensity for "accidently" being run off the pavement. How do you run someone off the pavement in a canoe race?
#15 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 6:05am
You stop paddling and whack 'em a couple of times with your paddle.
#16 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 6:19am
Works for me.
#17 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 6:36am
Here's just a sampling of the race strategies flying around my head just after the start sounds. I've usually picked a strategy before the race, but I just as often chuck it out as soon as the horn sounds and __________ (pick any paddlers name) sprints off the start.
I read that the faster you are above your average pace at the beginning of a race equates to how much slower you'll be at the end of a race. So I started trying to negative split my races and be stronger in the second half. The problem with that is I'm old. I'd be stuck in the front part of the middle of the pack, with this huge gap up to where I felt I rightly belonged. If I chose to move up, it was a lonely stretch of water - except for the drafters that would attach themselves to me as I tried.
Then there's a swimming/triathlon strategy where you go out harder than your average pace, and try to hang with some paddlers who are a little faster than you. The challenge there was trying to figure out who was going to be the perfect speed to follow on that day. This strategy would sometimes really suck if the wheels came off 3/4's of the way through the race. You'd be sweaty, salty, snotty and whimpering quietly to yourself as you held on, hoping to not get passed by everybody. Your neck gets sore from turning around all the time.
My latest strategy is to pick out the guys in my age group: usually a bit of grey hair (but still have hair), neon paddling gear from the late 80's. The trick is to sort them properly from the guys in the age group OLDER than yours. Then I just stick to those guys like glue, and hope to outsprint them at the end (if "sprint" can be used to describe the finish....)
#18 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 6:49am
On flatwater where drafting is possible, has anybody ever taken a team approach to an OC1 race as in a bicycle races where drafting is a solid strategy(when done respectfully as in a coordinated peloton)? A little give and take may give a pack of OC1's an little boost in speed in the flats.
#19 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 7:15am
Like what kahuna said...what works for me is trying to stay up with someone slightly faster. And by now, you should know who's slightly faster at the races.
What never works for me is starting out "easy" with the intention of having a strong second-half. It's psychologically deflating from the start. I just accept the fact that its going to hurt the whole time and start out that way.
#20 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 9:12am
Here's my 5 cents.
Ive always gone as hard as i could and see where i end up.
Then one day i was made to rethink (10km race). Set off as hard as i usually do, and 10 mins into the race. Front guys were about 200m + ahead. Next minute here is Herman paddling backwards through the bunch. He had dropped his hat, no panic, picks his hat up, stops paddling, smiling, and then carries on !!!! he must have lost a huge gap off the front guys. There were no runs to talk about, if there were i would have understood why he came in 5 mins ahead of everyone.
Conclusion
1. You need to be a strong paddler, with good cruising speed so work on that in training ( we all seem to have it at the start.)
2. All our technique (effectiveness) goes to pot when we get tired.
3.If you can maintain your "effectiveness" through the whole race, you'll be styling. As Rambo said FASTEST AVERAGE TIME wins.
(:)
#21 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 12:39pm
I suppose the subject of drafting is better discussed on a forum other than ocpaddler . It
s common practice in marathon racing where race distances are huge and water is flat . Not even the best paddlers go it alone for the entire length of a race.s very similar to the tactics used in bicycle racing.They take turns drafting , wake riding packs form , etc... it
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#22 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 12:00pm
The reason i posted the chart above, apart from the fact that now people at least have something to plan with rather than nothing, is for the stages parts at the at the bottom. Even if you have know idea what it is that you are going to do, filling it out and thinking about it will force you into a thought pattern where you can start to put ideas together over time and you will get good at it, just like the physical training you do outside of racing. This is mental training and will pay off big time as you get better at gathering info from race experiences.
By breaking the race down into stages, you can focus on the moment your in, with the knowledge that later stages are already planned for.
If you don't plan the race, the race will dictate to you and your focus will drift to the later stages where fatigue usually sets in.
Read the excellent article on BONKING BUSTING and how your mind can control it. You can read it on the blog http://rambos-locker.blogspot.com/2007/05/bonk-bustin.html or down load it here. http://www.box.net/shared/joougka3ju
Also another good read relevant to this topic WINNING FROM THE START http://www.box.net/shared/agenp70kk8
Cheers Rambo
#23 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 12:12pm
Why discuss it in a different forum? We are outrigger paddlers talking about outrigger paddling. This isn't marathon paddling or bicycle racing.
I know that there are lots of people that draft. That's their choice. If someone pulls in front of you on the start go ahead and draft them till space opens up and you can paddle under your own power. But if your strategy to a better performance is to draft people then I have no respect for you. If you want to do better in races man-up and train harder.
#24 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 12:14pm
Great input guys! I'd have to say that this is the longest stretch of serious, content-rich comments that I have witnessed here for awhile. Leaving off the term "drafting" it does seem that packs naturally form and it would be foolish not to use that energy respectfully as we could mutually benefit right? I hear you guys that are saying "go out strong and keep going" cuz that was how I was approaching it untill my guru/coach off-handedly asked me after a race; "so what was your strategy?". "Uhh, #@?" So here I am and now I have more info to use thanks to you guys. Also, big thanks to Rambo. I don't know how many hours you must spend on that blog of yours but its a great resource.
#25 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 12:43pm
Bottom line is you have to go hard at the start or you risk being left behind real early, but hard is relative to your best mile time for example for the first mile. Then you have to settle in to a pace you can maintain or you will definitely bonk or lose paddling efficiency and form at the 3/4 mark. Know what your personal best averages are for distances or splits and stay on them or slightly above if you feel good, but don't push much past those for too long or you will hit the wall fast. In the last stage of your race strategy you will know how much more room you have based on how you feel to raise your work effort where possible.
Know your body and your current level of fitness by doing weekly splits - i.e. 1/4, 1/2, one milers so you know what you can sustain and for how long during stages of your race.
Lots of good advice from others in this thread. I agree with Rambo its about race planning first then making a judgment call on how your body feels at each stage.
#26 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 12:49pm
You're welcome Brady, there's a series of Articles being posted on the blog at present in 7 parts called TRAINING CONCEPTS FOR THE PADDLER. There's some good info in the series.
Cheers Rambo
#27 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 12:51pm
Drafting is a way to share work load during a race , A group of paddlers working together is faster than going it alone.
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#28 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 1:24pm
Pittbrah,
I like how you put that. So I was thinking of starting a race based on a percentage (say 110%) of the pace I can maintain for the race distance but you are saying that instead I should find a max pace in time trials and use that?
#29 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 1:39pm
VLT, I think is talking from the perspective of someone who has mostly paddled in Hawaii, where drafting usually isnt part of the game, and is somewhat frowned upon. I don't know how it is nowday, but in Lanikai Canoe Club time trials there once was a one minute penalty for drafting, as we were trying to determine paddling strength, not drafting ability. In flatwater racing however, it is part of the game, but there's etiquette, just like in bicycle racing. everyone should take a "pull", but of course there's always the guy who doesn't do his part.
#30 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 3:08pm
too bad drafting is part of any sport. to call it a "strategy" is akin to studying less for a test than another student, then peeking at their paper for answers, and calling that a fair test. will it improve your score? sure. will it give a real evaluation of your knowledge? no.
but hey, if you feel it makes you a better paddler, have at it.
then after you've gotten become an avid strategist, go paddle in a place where the water is too rough to draft and find out how well you paddle
but great discussion guys, i've learned more today about something i'll never willingly do than i ever wanted to. perhaps this is why i'll never be an effective still water paddler.
#31 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 5:59pm
BG
I have learnt to draft but see how someone can see it as riding on other’s coat tails. I try not to do it as much. but can see it is part of the game. I knew a guy that would start on the starting line and still win. great paddler. he wouldn’t draft he was in front allot.
The question was how to start a race. I would say fast as you can, run like you owe them child support, the sharks are on your tail, and there’s a coast guard ship is in hot pursuit. then once your out, and clear. that’s the best place to start your race from you'll learn more running with the fast guys even for a while. it would be advisable to practice starts every practice maybe 10 or 15 times.
Rambo I'll try that chart.
#32 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 6:09pm
Best Thread Ever!! can't.....talk.....taking.....notes.....(should be doing push ups instead!!)
#33 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 6:12pm
Everyone of us has a free energy source that we can use. It lasts only 10 seconds and it won't fatigue or rob you of any other energy sources available during the race. It's pure chemical based baby and don't need oxygen to ignite.
You can use it at the start where it's probably the most useful or sometime soon after, but if you don't take advantage of it, you loose it. Works best in a highly emotion state, so when you take that first stoke, paddle like there's a Demon after your ass.
It's called the The Phosphagen System and it's designed for your survival to outrun the Sabre Tooth Tiger.
Just remember, you only got 10 seconds, enough to make it to the cave entrance and shut the log door.
Cheers Rambo
#34 Tue, 05/06/2008 - 6:38pm