OK, lets see how long it takes for this to get off track.
Seems to me that most oc paddles are 10 degree bend. A couple (ZRE. Werner, Mudbrook) are 12 degree. All my paddles are 10, and I've never used a 12. Any thoughts on the differences.
Submitted by Jibofo on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 6:44am
The difference is 2 degrees.
#1 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 10:44am
well e0260, if you look at it the other way, the difference is -2 degrees.
#2 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 10:56am
Only took one post to get off track, is that a record?
#3 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 11:05am
Let's settle on +- 2
#4 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 11:40am
What about Kia Kaha? 8 degrees I believe.
#5 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 11:41am
And the Black Bart at 15 degrees.
r
#6 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 11:59am
what does Jr. use? I guess thats the best right?
#7 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 12:03pm
Poops, difference can not be a negative number. The distance between any two numbers, regardless of whether they are positive or negative, is always expressed as a positive number (e.g. the difference between -5 and -9 is 4....not -4). I'm tired of explaining the relative complement theory to you....I believe this is twice now.
Painteur, "-+2" equals 0. What's your point?
Jibofo, I'm sorry for highjacking this thread with idiocy. Your question was valid and I feel shame.
#8 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 1:03pm
chines are more important
#9 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 1:20pm
e02060, I agree with you, however I was looking at it from a geometric point of view such that depending on your origin or reference, 2 degrees could also be expressed as -2 degrees.
Poops
#10 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 1:32pm
Go with 11. Not as much for it's feel through the water, but If you use the right font (like Arial), then 11 can be folded symmetrically on both an X and Y axis. Suuuhhhhhhwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeettttttttt!!!
#11 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 1:40pm
Ok Jibofo, I'm feeling bad for you. Try both and see what feels the best. Choose whatever paddle that helps you keep the blade perpendicular to the surface of the water.
I don't like to get these details in my head cause for me it usually spirals out of control. Cause I start asking ok if I get 12 degrees what happens if I make my paddle an inch shorts, or if I go with the 10 degree then I might want it longer, or if I can make my paddle 2 oz lighter then that might help, or should I have a palm grip or T grip, should I have a thicker shaft or shorter shaft, should I enter perpendicularly or at and angle, should I enter deep or shallow at first, high stroke rate, or low stroke rate... and on it goes.
See my ADD kicks in, so much though I wasn't talking about paddling anymore toward the end of that rabble.
Poops
#12 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 1:56pm
Yes, I too shall answer with rare sincerity out of remorse.
Like most innovations in this sport, the degree angles of the paddles probably aren't backed up with much empirical data or research, but rather is a product of someone with knowledge having a gut-feeling that it may be better. And in the end, it probably IS for someone and ISN'T for someone. Like chines and double-bend blades. It's people trying different things to see if they work. And in the end, the guys who train the hardest still win.
#13 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 2:05pm
e02060 well said.
#14 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 2:08pm
Sry for my smart-ass comment
poopoopaddlers got a good point, there's so many more factors to it that a straight-forward 10 versus 12 degree answer. In fact, with so many little tweaks and idiosyncrasies from each paddlers technique to the next, whose to say what angle best suits everybody? Through a better understanding of stroke analysis and paddling technique, maybe each person should have a custom angle bend suited specifically to them, whether it be 10 or 12 or 8 or whatever it may be.
I have a 52" Kialoa Hybrid (10 degrees) and also use a 50" ZRE composite (12 degrees). I could discuss the differences, but it would be hard to settle on what causes them. If we could narrow it down to blade angle or other variables ie. blade shape, powerface concaves/dihedrals, overall length, etc.
#15 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 2:08pm
If anyone else apologizes for being a smart-ass, un-serious, or sarcastic, they're getting smacked.
...Jim told me to tell you all this.
#16 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 3:55pm
The difference as I [myopically] see it is related to stroke length; the smaller degree, the shorter the stroke. The higher the number (say, 15), the longer you can keep paddle in water before angle of blade pulls canoe down rather than just forward. This of course assuming only single bend paddles.
#17 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 4:51pm
Sheesh, I go paddling for a couple of hours and miss out on math theory, geometry, etc.
I'm going with Poop's comment on Jr. Obviously whatever he's using is the best. Maybe he'll sell me one of his old paddles.
#18 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 5:02pm
Ill go with no diference
#19 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 5:36pm
I actually thought that there was a generally agreed upon idea behind this: A lesser degree (like 8 degrees favors) the front part of the stroke and a classic "hawiian" long leaning twisting style where the 12+ degree bend favors the marathon paddling style where there in more emphasis on siting upright and favoring the back half of the stroke which is a generally more efficient posture if you are going to be paddling for hours on end. Bob at ZRE adds that the greater degree of bend favors the top hand and the lesser degree of bend favors the bottom hand. He did not elaborate but assured me that 12 degrees was tested and found to be the best though he could make any angle.
#20 Wed, 05/07/2008 - 5:48pm