I'm not trying to hate on regattas, i was just thinking....
My girlfriend is paddling novice B along with like 17 other girls at her club. And i was looking around the other day and realized, what happens to all these girls next year? I don't have a whole lot of experience with a big club, but it seems like the large majority of novice paddlers don't stick around. So, it seems like there is something wrong with the way things are set up, no? Why do like 98% of novices quit, not to mention all of the high school paddlers around Hawai'i who don't make the transition to OC-6 or OC-1 (or V-1).
Could it be because regattas are not very fun? Or at least after you've done a season of them, another season of sitting on the beach all day watching races probably isn't very appealing. Novices and high school paddlers don't really get to see what we (as life-long paddlers) see. Distance races, whether in an OC-1 or and OC-6, are a lot more fun than sprint races. The added dynamic of surfing and choosing your course and pacing yourself and hydrating properly and eating properly, all of that is irrelevant in a regatta. Regattas probably weed out all of the novices who are not sprinters, but could be good at longer distances. So, every year along with the 98% of novices and high school paddlers that are quitting paddling, there are probably a lot of gifted distance athletes who would've flourished in other types of racing. Also, with regattas it seems like a lot of people in the bigger clubs don't even get to race very much, but i could be wrong on that.
Also, where did the regatta format come from? Isn't it more of a westernized rowing style of racing?
Everybody always says that regattas are for the kids, but kids are just as capable to race distance races. I remember paddling when i was young and wishing that i could race distance. And when i was like 14 i did have the good fortune of being in a club that encouraged the kids to paddle with the men and was able to race in a lot of the Kaua'i long distance races and Kona. Three of us paddled with the men, got our eyes opened to different formats of racing, and we are the only three out of the entire youth program that are still paddling.
I'm not suggesting that we end the regatta season, but what about making it shorter and mixing some more pre-season distance races in there that are formatted with novices in mind? And, even though i say it too much by now, but we could add a couple OC-1 races throughout the summer as well.
Alright, that's all. Feel free to bash, extend, or ignore the idea.
Submitted by luke on Sat, 05/17/2008 - 9:24am
thinking about regatta races is no fun after one man season. i think the distance season should be longer and have more races with more open ocean surf-action races. it would be great if distance season could just expand and replace regattas. a longer distance season could get us back into shape to compete against the tahitians. who is stoked about going to practice in a canal or flat water ocean doing sprints for an hour?? not me.
#1 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 11:45am
Yeah, i didn't mention it, but i agree with youngbuck completely on the training part. It has always seemed crazy to me the way that our season is set up in regards to training. It makes absolutely no sense.
#2 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 1:04pm
I have to say that regattas are one of the reasons that I stopped paddling (luke may be able to come up with some more). But as an average paddler I would sit around all day waiting to race for 2 minutes and sometimes be bumped out of a race if a better paddler showed up. It made me realize that it was a waste of my time. The only part of OC6 that I enjoyed was the distance season, and I think that is why I enjoy OC1 also...no regattas.
www.nekine.com
#3 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 12:43pm
My first "real" experience in 6-man was in my novice B year after the regatta season. I paddled in the Kahakuloa race from Kahului harbor to Kaanapali Beach. We were an all novice B team, using a malia mold.(remember those?) We finished last by a long shot, but still is remembered as a super fun time. The main thing was, We were paddling and our race was longer than 4 minutes!
I think one of the reasons novices drop out is the time commitment given to regattas and training, hits reality after one season. With OC1 paddlers are able to be flexible in their training time. A funny answer to the question "who do you paddle for" is, "I paddle for Ainokea Canoe Club. The reason is if nobody shows up, AINOKEA!, I still going paddle!
Could there be a push for a racing series like the sailing canoes? This could be a mix of 6-man and OC1 races running concurrently with regattas or separate. Just a thought.
#4 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 1:10pm
regatta is about Ohana, kokua, and most of all Aloha!!!!
in my perspective, in regatta season is when the clubs grow,
each sunday you get the chance of spend the day on a beautifull side of the island you live on, rigg your canoes, set up tents, enjoy all divisions, hold boat, race and try to bring more points to your club, have fun with your friends, break down tent, load the canoes and all to the tryler, head to your canoe site, and drink a few with your ohana.......how this could be bad???
i do agree that have nothing to do with the modern style of living, rush, bieng selfcenter etc.........but i belive this tradition is the way the little ones start and learn form the older ones........no can go wrong......you still can train hard to long distance....if not ask HAWAIIAN CANOE CLUB???
I SAY IS VITAL FOR THE SPORT, cause is where grandkids, parents and granparents share a great day doing what they love........specially by sharing what makes them strong...
Luke, I DONT THINK ALL THOSE NOVICE AND HIGHSCHOOL PADDLERS QUIT BECAUSE REGATTAS ARENT FUN, they quit cause is not in them, you have to agree with me that this sport isnt for everybody, and its true spirit have nothing to do with the things that rule in our modernity.................
my 2 cents anyways....
if you are super good in oc-1, if you are a world class oc paddler, to race reagatta and coach younger and novices is a super good way to give back to the sport all what the sport had given you....
#5 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 1:33pm
i agree that sittin around all day to race open 4's or mix, if you dont make the regular mens or womens crew, can make a day seem pretty loooonnnggg, although it is at the beach, but coaching kids is awesome. Just to see they're faces after they win makes it all worth it
#6 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 2:02pm
getting kids involved and interactive with the open ocean to me is more vital then sitting around and racing in the polluted keehi lagoon.. if you think about it regattas are kinda the commercial side of paddling. sprint sprint sprint go fast as you can. open ocean paddling is the real world of paddling. there is so much to learn from the ocean. being out there in a surf run in a canoe and racing distance is more about the team and the ocean.i think learning, interacting, engaging yourself, and experiencing the open ocean is paddling. its sad because there are so many people who paddle in regatta and dont get to experience real paddling. a longer long distance season can let people experience true paddling
#7 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 2:21pm
This forum topic is interesting to me because, as a totally new paddler, I'm really looking forward to regatta season. I started paddling several months ago and am completely hooked, but so far have only done some 6 mile races - the shorter sprints seem like they'll be exciting. And, as others have mentioned, there are worse ways to spend a day than hanging out on the beach and getting to meet and know paddlers from other clubs.
Maybe I'm still in the honeymoon phase where ANY kind of paddling - regatta, shorter races, and the upcoming distance season - sounds awesome... I also can't wait to try an OC-1. (anyone wanna take me out? haha)
Uh, this is my first posting, so please be gentle...
#8 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 2:58pm
I am a beginner to the sport of paddling.. in every respect. I first had a try at a V-1 and thought, people are crazy for doing this. But after a few more tries and jumping into a much easier maneuverable boat, the OC-1, I decided to join a team and give it a go at paddling.
I must say...
Having the freedom of paddling in the ocean on a OC-1 I will definitely take anyday. I enjoy the practices with my current team. But I agree with Luke and youngbuck. Practicing your ass off for a 4 min race or less... is not the type of thing I am looking forward too. During our practices, we're focusing on speed and sprinting. On these days, I'm totally over practices. But on the few days when our coaches take us out into the ocean and allow us to experience what it's like to be out on the open ocean in a canoe is by far the best practices ever.
And since I'm a beginner... I guess the chances of me ever going to Kona or doing a big long distance race is well... I guess I have to keep waiting around at the beaches for another regatta season to get my chance.
So yes, In every respect it's about the fun and love of the ocean, not the Sunday afternoon waiting to touch the boat for about 4 mins then hitting the cooler and breaking off a cap of beer. I can do that any day any time, without the assistance of a regatta season.
Regattas don't bring "aloha" anymore than distance seasons, do they?
please school a beginner on how to return next season....
#9 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 3:24pm
one thing is for sure. racing in a regatta is A LOT of waiting and not much racing. no matter where you are. even up in the great state of washington. here is a short list of things i did get out of today's race outside of Seattle: the strange feeling of paddling on a lake, the odd feeling of tasting fresh water, and a crazy sunbrun... even up here in wuarshingtun.
lastly, but not least, i got to feel the madness of paddling with ocpaddler's own goto and jim at the same time.
WORD.
#10 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 4:44pm
jc9-professional regatta steersman extraordinaire...
#11 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 4:48pm
Regattas are kind of lame, but I have so many cool memories from them. The Koa boats, the fragrance of flowers in the air, seeing all your friends from school, it was a big part of life for me in summer as a kid. I still think senior men's at the Macfarlane regatta is a classic race especially for O'ahu paddlers.
#12 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 5:15pm
Good topic Luke!
I can really see your point about sitting around waiting for a short race. But I think your forgetting that SHORT doesn't mean LESS INTENSE. Any race, no matter how long, can be exhausting and competitive...even the race within the race if your not a top contender. I have been doing the regatta thing since 1980 and I still enjoy it. I understand that it isn't for everyone (the guy I am married to considers it a waste of a good Sunday too) but I doubt that is why people stop paddling. I think that people stop paddling because of the whole package of 1) Time away from family training 2) Paddle-tics within clubs 3) Cost of paddling 4) Friends and loved ones saying, "Eh...why you paddle? Let's go surf or something 'cause your ALWAYS paddling!" I was fortunate to have awesome parents that drove me to all of my regattas as a kid and then I selected the very best guy in the entire world who also believed in the positive and healthy lifestyle of paddling. I could have picked a guy that didn't paddle and he might have influenced me to quit but this is the life I chose and Norm is the guy for that lifestyle (your right...I am his biggest fan).
And another thing that was mentioned in an earlier post, paddling with the different generations on the same day and venue is awesome. My Mom paddles and it is great to see her out there with her peers being so competitive on the same day that I get to race (she's a platinum 65+). One day soon my kids will be out there doing the quarter mile blitz and I will know what they are going thru and cheer them on for the entire 2 minutes plus!
And lastly, show up later to the regatta. Go surfing/ hiking/ onemanning/ to breakfast/ whatever before you go to the regatta. It is so easy to do this with everyone having cellphones. Have your team mate call you to tell you what your racing and then how quickly the regatta is going (lots of hulis in the kids divisions=longer regatta so show up later). There is no reason to go to the regatta ALL DAY if you don't want to. Pick the regattas to go to so you can support your youth paddlers and set up tent, ect. but don't go there every weekend and stew under the tent because you don't wanna be there.
Anyway, I love regattas and I have always loved regattas even when I paddled for Honolulu Canoe Club as a kid and I qualified for July 4th MacFarlaine ONCE in 15 years (yep, we sucked)! I also love long distance and pre-season long distance but that doesn't take away my love for the sprints.
Mikala
#13 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 5:27pm
You guys all have good points. And i do have to admit that going to regattas when I was younger could be fun. And i have never been to an O'ahu regatta other than states, so maybe they are a lot more fun. But, i really feel like the thing that got me hooked was my first long distance race, and not the regattas. I think that if my club did not encourage us to race long distance, then i wouldn't be paddling now. So, i'm not really suggesting to completely get away with the regatta season, but just to shorten it significantly. And the summer should still be the season that's dedicated to getting kids and novices' out paddling. There could be a race for kids under 16 that's like 3 or 4 miles (1 hour to run). Then another race for under 19 that's 6-8 miles (maybe an hour and a half to run). And then novice A and B race together in another 4 mile race (one hour). Then open and master men and women could race 6-8 miles (hour and a half), and finally senior and golden master men and women go like 4-6 miles (an hour). So you could run all those races in like 5 hours. And maybe they'd all be triangle courses. So you'd have the start and finish in the same place, so that everybody could still hang out and watch and support the club. Plus there'd be very few people who wouldn't be racing because you could make as many crews as you like...
In the end, it would get us in better distance shape, it would be more entertaining for everyone, you'd get to race for more than 5-10 minutes, and you'd still be able to spend the day at the beach supporting your club if you want.
#14 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 6:59pm
I think we need a v1 regattas...
#15 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 7:11pm
one thing about regattas is the excitement of watching your kids race.. and also its more of a spectator sport where as long distance races you see the start and drive to the finish as for reggattas yeah there long and alot of waitng but i think its ok. especially when wathcing the senior mens races and the top 4 boats are with in seconds apart .. now thats exciting..
#16 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 7:21pm
Yeah...I get your point Luke (your last post). But I think that you forget that there are A LOT of people who aren't interested in paddling that far. As you know, I am NOT one of them but over the years I have come to realize that not everyone shares my enthusiasm for long, tough paddles. Some people who paddle regattas think distance paddling is crazy and just enjoy sprinting and summer paddling. Other people who once paddled years ago can't believe that I still do it. They just don't love it like the rest of us.
I do like your ideas for organizing more races for the keiki to get them interested. There are more distance races today than ever before but we could use more. Just look at Hui Wa'a Association and how they implemented a points system for their pre-season long distance races that is simular to Kanaka's Po'ai Puni points for all the Kanaka Ikaika races. The crew that gets the most points at the end of the pre-season LD season gets a trophy and bragging rights. Something like that could be done for the youth paddlers.
I personally think that you need to coach some kids, Luke. Make a difference, inspire them and see the smiling faces of the future paddlers.
Oh, and I have seen Jc9 steering before...he is a great regatta AND open ocean steersman.
Mikala
#17 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 8:08pm
My thought on this is this:
Sprints in the morning for the keikis then 3-5 mile races for the adults in the afternoon. Race as many crews as you can scrape together and still finish before 4 pm.
Keikis are happy and the ol' men aren't grumpling that they waited all day for a 2 min race.
eric
#18 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 10:50pm
I don't want to do regattas is because they do take a lot of time. As a kid, there was all the time in the world especially since the season is in the summer. Time was never the issue back then. But now, probably as a result of living on the east coast for a little while and the added stress of living in the real world, I get anxious if I'm not trying to do something productive. Not to say that I'm even productive all the time, I more than anyone love to stare off into space and do absolutely nothing. My point is that it's really hard for me to justify an entire day for a very short race.
I don't think my situation can be generalized to reason that regattas are bad for the sport though. It's kind of like saying school is bad for educating kids. Sometimes students really are held back by school, but what it really comes down to is the teachers. i.e. if coaches make practices really fun, and if more oc1/v1/surfing/whatever kind of equipment can be made available and introduced safely to novices then maybe we'll see a higher retention rate.
And not to say that the racing seasons couldn't use a little rearranging, I just don't see it happening or starting with regattas.
#19 Sat, 05/17/2008 - 11:59pm
I dunno but some of my best memories of paddling was hanging out all day at the beach with all my friends at regatta. I mean think about it. It gave us an awesome excuse to hangout every weekend, eat some good food and have a few beers. Just my thoughts.
Poopie
#20 Sun, 05/18/2008 - 7:56am
I think regattas should continue as is. Lots of good points made on this thread, especially Lukes idea of not totally dropping the notion of having some OC1 races mixed into the schedule during the Summer .
Regatta is the feeder for future OC1 racers .
There will always be a need for a way to introduce large numbers of young people to paddling , regatta season is perfect for this . For those paddlers who don`t particularly like all the sitting around and waiting , they can get into an OC1 .
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#21 Sun, 05/18/2008 - 8:07am
Luke, in regards top your last post, the idea of longer races is a great concept. What do others feel about having this format, and perhaps doing short sprints for the others left on the beach during the longer races. Imagine starting out the younger race as the first race of the day, then throw some open 4 or senior master in for a 1/2 mile race to "entertain" the troops on the beach and warm-up for your later, longer race. This format could continue on throughout the day. There even could be clinics or booths to introduce the sport and the cultural aspect of paddling to spectators and beginner paddlers. This way some of the more experienced clubs could impart their knowledge. Maui has the celebration of canoes this month. Imagine a mini on going event such as that each weekend to draw people to the sport and perpetuate the cultural heritage of the sport.
Just my ramblin 2 cents.
#22 Sun, 05/18/2008 - 2:37pm
"please school a beginner on how to return next season…."
I'm 22 the reason I stuck with paddling was not regattas. It was Kona. When I was 16 my coach sent over four teams to race and I got to see what real racing was. Here in Cali we do (pre-season) races novice women and men race together in a 4-6 mile race then come in get a big cheer from everyone when they cross the line. this is followed by the women who race all together in a 8-12 mile race (first races in the season are shorter and progressively get longer) then the men race after them in a 9-13 mile race. We have six of these races in our season.
This pre-season race is followed by three different regattas and then our three big distance or 9-man races.
It just seems to me that the seasons are not in the right order. I think it would make more sense to start the season with the shortest races ie regattas then move to pre-season (or Ironman races) then follow those up with the biggest races of the season 9-man.
Coming from a Jr's coach it is really hard to try and get kids hooked for more than the sprint season because they only start a month before the races and then only have three races. There isn't enough time to get them in shape for 9-man. There is a lot evolved with training someone to stick around and race a 20+ mile race if they only have two and half months of training. If we had the sprints at the beginning of the season to entice people they would get to come on down and practice hard and go race a short race then finish and sit on the beach and make friends for life.
This would be followed but the longer races that last for novice 4-6 miles, women 8-12 miles, men 9-13 miles. and after this season you go to the bigger 18+ mile races. You would gradually weed out people who aren't interested. Start short distances where the training isn't so hard then after they have a little confidence add the distance then add some more.
#23 Sun, 05/18/2008 - 2:52pm
I am kind of biased because I dont paddle 6 man but it seems to me that regatta will never and shouldnt go away. Its the only real way for the whole community to enjoy the sport even of they arent paddling. I would like to see it if they held more one man races maybe on sunday the day after?
#24 Sun, 05/18/2008 - 3:54pm
i know everybody enoyed regattas as kids and as novice aswell, i also know in the real world (what i call modern dayz) nobody have extra time, even on the weekends. however, we all started in the sport through regattas, we learned from there, and those happy days were posible cause there were filled with people that had same time problem we do have now but they have the Heart and Aloha to share it with us so we all could have the experience.
i also agree the longer the distance the deeper you can experience outrigger in it truer version, but dont forget sprints gives everybody a shoot on the same day, and that Zinergy GOES A LONG WAY.
again regattas is a vital part on the year schedules, you still get, pre long, long distance and oc-1 season. but we cannot forget that if we decide to start not attending regattas we are leaving empty places for the ones that come new to the sport.
we cannot only seek personal satisfaction, we have to go further and give back to the sport all we received by sharing our experience with the new ones, personally i think regattas gives you an unreal chance to do so.
aloha!
ps, i forgot that you have Sailing canoe series aswell (on the year schedule)
#25 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 4:21am
Regattas are boring and long. I have kids and THEY think they're boring. It's when most of my team goes on a vacation or takes a break to do other things, and I always feel sorry for the clubs who put them on because they don't get the attendance (aka: money) that iron races do (I would think.) Only the sprint state champs has decent enthusiasm. The morale for the others is SO LOW that my club had to enact a rule that you couldn't race state champs if you didn't attend at least one other sprint race prior. If that doesn't scream for change, I don't know what does.
However, I get that regattas are the one format that kids from 8-14 can participate in. Its too bad they can't find a way to incorporate it the same day as an ironman race. I also agree that kids could do distance (2-3 miles). Have a mini-course at the same time as the novice races. Something. Because regattas are boring. Regattas. Boring.
#26 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 5:25am
I paddle in both Hawaiʻi and California, and there is a HUGE difference in racing regattas in those areas. cali regattas are lame cuz they're usually pretty unorganized, no one shows up, not to mention its hard to get kids to even try paddling out there, and there are very few individuals willing to even spend a little time to coach these kids. But in hawaii, theres an infinitely better experience to regatta season, and the format that is used, is great.
yo tpoppler, just race your kids in the iron races, thats wut we do at our club, they love it, gets them hooked a little earlier.
#27 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 6:28am
B-rad - Ditto on the East Coast. Youth participation is minimal and we have "maybe" one Regatta Race a season. When we do have a regatta race it is typically attended by clubs close to the race venue and/or by paddlers who are lifers in sport of outrigger. The average age of outrigger paddlers on the East Coast is probably in the thirties. In the past we tried using "Regatta races" to develop youth in outrigger. It really did not catch on. There seems to be much more interest in the endurance outrigger races rather than the sprints. I think one of the issues on the East Coast, with respect to developing the youth, is that during the summer many leave the major cities and work and/or party on the beaches on the atlantic seaboard; that does not bode well cause there are very few clubs near the beaches in the Northeast. Anyway ... I could write more but don't want to bore you all.
Luke, I think you have some great ideas. Getting the youth involved in the ironman and nineman races is a good way to keep them involved and interested in the sport. Regatta races are probably still a good introduction, etc. And re-thinking the order of all the various formats of racing is probably a good place to start. From a pure physiological perspective, a regatta sprint season would be well suited to be at end the the race lifecycle. The question is would a Regatta season at the end of the fall (after Molokai Hoe) fit into the HI calendar?
#28 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 7:30am
Luke makes some good points-
Regattas aren't bad- the format is bad and out-dated
1) The format currently is still made for when there were no one-mans and Long-Distance was for the truly committed and tough-women and men-meaning here is your Malia canoe, 35 oz. paddle-no gloves, you can't take water or juice, you have a cotton tank top that will rub you raw, not many escort and safety boats and the only time you can practice is not on your own but with the club early morning at 5:00 AM or ate Afternoon into the evening. With those scenarios, everyone wanted to paddle in the Regattas and didn't care how many Regattas and leave Long Distance for the crazies. You either enjoyed racing the Regattas or went through serious pain in Long Distance.
Now with the equipment (Canoes (Oc-6 and Oc-1), Paddles, Clothing, GPS) and nutrition-hydration. Long distance is more open to more paddlers and Regattas aren't as enjoyable.
2) Regattas do build Ohana. and club spirit. I imagine a lot of coaches would love to have all of the paddlers at the beach for the entire Regattas-but it is just too much. So if you cancel 4 regattas per Island and have clubs rotate hosting year to year, what do you replace it with. More Oc-1 races? No. You will continue to erode club spirit and leave out novices and kids. More OC-6 long distance races 10 -12 miles downwind? No. You still leave out novices and kids
One Option-
-Is to have more completely off weekends. No races and have clubs bring all of the paddlers together to have the open/elite paddlers work with and support the novice and kids. Mini races at their own sites blending kids with adults-Novice with open-Three to four mile races .
Second Option
Island-wide mini long distance races- (Ages 10-14 with adult steers person doing 4 to 5 miles. (Ages 14-18 and Novice 4 to 5 miles)
(Adults/Open 4 to 5 miles)-Each division counts for points toward club winning or just have everyone paddle. Also race course should be seen by as many spectators as possible so kids and novice could learn by watching the others, however not going around in circles.
Final thoughts-
Must change entire racing schedule (Oc-6 and Oc-1)
Must have more off weekends
#29 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 7:37am
B- rad I do race them in the Iron man season last year I only had jr girls and they raced with the novice last year and this year I have jr boys and girls and i make them race the long course. And they are all going to be better paddlers for it. Oh yeah they race all the 9- man races as well even the Catalina Crossing.
#30 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 7:40am
I just love how everyone here is stating that kids should be more involved and no one gives them the chance to race. Wasn't it Pat Doland who couldn't race Molokai Hoe when he was 16 even though he took 4th in the solo that same year. It's no wonder the kids don't want to stick around you treat'm like there a child and they will be one, yet you treat them like an Adult in a race, and I put money on it that a Hawaii team taking back the Molokai Hoe will be sooner than you think.
Don't hold them back because of there age.
#31 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 7:50am
true thats the dumbest rule. they should be encouraging and supporting the younger generations in big races like molokai. dont give me this safety bullshit there are hundreds of escorts boats. im sure if teenagers were allowed to do it there would be more teenagers active in the open ocean long distance paddling. thats what we need. look at the young hawaiian generation for paddling, theres only a handful of potential great paddlers.
#32 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 8:04am
Raising kids it is good to keep them busy, doing anything. and for that matter keeping anyone out of trouble when on the water. and there’s a few of us that prefer to do a race under a hour . I do the long races but after the first hour or so you see less people and from that point on little changes. sprints maybe not to constructive for the Iron men but you always have to see the whole picture. and sticking a baby fresh rookie in a long race could be intimidating. The biggest race I ever went to was Alcan dragon boat race there was thousands of paddlers 70 or 80 thousand. all sprints.
#33 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 8:07am
Dragon Boats don't go in the open ocean, don't try changing types of boats. Those guys only paddle on one side and can only paddle like that for about 2km.
#34 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 8:13am
well of course the kids or teenagers course will be different, easier and shorter than the open men.. but atleast its a stepping stone in the right direction.
#35 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 8:21am
don't matter if people "should" support them or not. if people don't WANT to do regattas, for the various reasons stated, then it's already dying. you can't rely on people supporting a dying format just for the sake of the good ole days. you can wish all you want about keeping it the way it is because it's always been that way, but people will vote with their feet (or their paddles).
i personally take a break during regattas- i have too many other ingenious ways to blow a whole saturday than for a couple of 2 minute races. i don't need an excuse to have a bbq with friends and family on the beach.
it IS a great way to get the whole family involved, but based on the attrition rate, it doesn't look like it's too effective in getting youth paddlers to stick around.
#36 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 8:48am
Yeah, but if the whole family is not involved it is a very painful ordeal.
A few regattas sprinkled over a few weekends would be tolerable, even enjoyable. But every weekend for two months is too much. And they don't even count. Here on Kauai, there is no point system leading to the state races. All is decided at the Island championship. Maybe clubs could combine regattas if they use the same venue.
#37 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 9:38am
Not everyone who likes paddling wants to do regattas, not everyone who likes paddling wants to do long distance. What can be bad about giving people their choice?
#38 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 9:45am
Well the fact that you go to it to race for two minutes and then your whole day is shot. You guys over in Hawaii only have to drive maybe what 25 miles to go do a race, try driving 50+ for almost every race, and I'm only in San Clemente, I know some clubs have to drive four hours to race for two minutes. Now thats a great race to drive ratio 120:1. A lot of times it's just more cost effective to stay home.
#39 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 10:15am
You want real crazy. I live in Arizona in the middle of the frikkin desert. I race for Oceanside in SoCal. Friday I drove 425 miles to Santa Barbara for the Rig Run. Raced, hopped in the car and drove back 425 miles. During race season (OC1 and OC6) that means every weekend or every other weekend I do the same thing. Why did I ever move away from Kailua?
So, count your blessings. Yeah, regattas are a lot of time for a little racing. But I'd rather be sitting on the beach talking story, waiting for my two minutes, instead of spending six hours each way in my car.
#40 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 10:59am
If we ever make the olympics they will have 500 meter races
#41 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 11:42am
One of the biggest problems I see is that the associations that run the races are very reluctant to change. I have said this before about the OC-1 racing and I believe it applies to the OC-6 as well. Both are gaining in numbers, Much more on the OC-1. There is room for growth, To do so will take a handful of people to form a new association, I don't think it would be wise to try and compete head to head against the old, But to have a new look to the future, To take those that want something other than what they currently have and make it what they want.
I think we also need to look at what we expect from our paddlers, Here in So Cal we have 6 iron, 3 sprint, 3 9man races, Many clubs wants you to go to all 12 events, Many times pressure is places on paddlers to go to all the races.
What would be better? a club to have 50 paddlers and all go to every race, or for a club to have 150 paddlers and a different combination of 50 go to the different races, Allowing them to have more time with family, and less stress from a coach or fellow racer. They pick and choose which they like and want to attend. With rising fuel costs going to these events is getting way to expensive.
My guess is that most people that compete in sport do not travel nearly the distances that we do. I think that if the OC-6 and OC-1 races are to gain in popularity and growth we need to look at racing at a more local level, Each area may have it's "big" event, and we will always have the "champs" races, But instead of traveling hundreds of miles each weekend in the summer, maybe we have smaller events, if you have an event that people like they will still travel to get to you.
#42 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 11:45am
What about racing once a month and there being several different races available, i.e. long distance, sprint, 9man, OC1, OC6 ama flying, Rudderless, etc......
#43 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 11:51am
I agree that change is desperately needed with regards to the growth of oc-1. Because of tradition and established races, oc-1 has been kicked to the winter so as not to step on the toes of the oc-6 circuit. But from the viewpoint of many of my friends, we'd like to see more oc-1 opportunities in the summer. I know that's anecdotal, but its what we talk about.
I think an oc-1 event in the summer would attract as many, if not more, participants than the oc-6 sprint races. We've thrown around the idea of establishing a big oc-1 summer race, but have been warned by members of the "old guard" not to mess with, interfere, or otherwise disrupt the traditional oc-6 schedule. I guess they feel its competitive rather than supplemental.
#44 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 11:58am
On Maui we have a keiki coach who is bucking the tide and entering kids in both 1man and long distance races. When officials deny the entry, he escorts the kids himself and they paddle in spite of the controversy.
I think it will take more of these bold statements to start affecting the current system.
At the end of the next regatta, get 9 guys to race each other in 1man using the lanes. 1 turn, .5 mile. No need for medals or officials. People will talk, maybe next year it will be official.
I too would like to see more action at regattas. However, I appreciate the effort that is made to put on the regattas and the kupuna who laid the foundation for this great sport.
Aloha...
Joe
#45 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 12:05pm
Up here in Vancouver Canada we have Tuesday night races, in solo’s. Held by Bob from Deep Cove and every second Thursday night races held by Ryan from Pogue Sports and they are the best races. no big hotel spend 500$ a trip like on weekends you load canoes and race at 7:00 and go out to eat then make it home for Letterman. it’s the best. They are 8 to 12 klm races. Based on fun. But can get from 50 to 100 paddlers easy. And great for training.
#46 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 12:35pm
Some truth in what you`re saying e02060, if there were some high quality OC1 racing in Hawaii going on in late Summer the competition would probably be a little deeper than it is now .
I know lots of east coast paddlers who`d like to go to Hawaii to race Molokai solo but are not in the best of shape in late April . It takes us east coasters until July to be at our best.
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#47 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 12:36pm
One very easy way to add OC-1 racing in the summer is to talk to the Psaddleboard racers, They have been coming to the Winter races for a long time, For what ever reason there seams to be a rift between the two, (sort of a long board / short board mentality) Also there are plenty of Ocean festivals that would add OC-1 to the mix, I was an exhibitor at the Encinitas triathlon this past weekend, They had a paddleboard race from Oceanside to Moonlight beach, about 11 miles, I have already talked to thema bout adding OC-1 for next year, They are all for it,
I know I said in my last post that maybe a new Association is formed, I think specificallyy for the OC-1 this may not be needed, just a few people willing to make a few phone calls to get our boats added to there line up, They already have the entry stuff covered, insurance, facilities etc. And if we can add OC-1, why not oc-6,
#48 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 3:25pm
Let's have the solo in August when its hot and ten mph winds so the guys from Nova Scotia can get their shot at fiftieth place! Just kidding, Fuze! I guess strong trades can happen at almost anytime of year. I've heard the date of the Hoe was set because on average, that's the calmest weekend of the year. It would be interesting to figure the statistically biggest and windiest time of year and have a holding period for the big races like surf contests. As for changing the regatta system, my sources tell me that some big changes may be in store for the regatta system on O'ahu, but it will be interesting to see how the entrenched bureaucrats who currently run things will react to such proposed changes. I'm guessing that they won't give up too easily. We'll soon find out, I think.
#49 Mon, 05/19/2008 - 4:57pm
Never underestimate a paddler from Nova Scotia.
All kidding aside , if Molokai solo was in late Summer there would be lots of new names in the starting order .
http://maineoutriggerchampionships.blogspot.com/
#50 Tue, 05/20/2008 - 1:08am
Joe, i like your idea of sending 1-mans out on the 6-man regatta course. Maybe do it late afternoon the day before regatta... they start taking down those flags at the end of regatta day as soon as possible, but i know they put them up midday the day before.
Actually, lets all invade Guam for the annual Heineken cup! Slalom sprints regatta (right and left turns) one day, middle distance (17 mile) the next.
#51 Thu, 05/22/2008 - 1:02pm
Molokai Hoe has always been in October. The race was started in conjunction with the Aloha Week festival that takes place at that time of year. Many years ago the Kanaka Ikaika Solo was in October after the Molokai Hoe. It was later changed to the current time, and they actually had a race in October and then the following May the year of the change. Late August is already into the long distance OC6 season in Hawaii. The current January thru May for OC1 and Surfski followed by Oc6 Regatta and long distance thru Molokai Hoe just about fills the year!
#52 Thu, 05/22/2008 - 2:07pm
Well I guess Regattas suck. By participating in them, I"ve been forced to adjust my training to prepare for a sub 4:00 minute 1/2 race. I now experience guilt, that I need not drive a bajillion miles to participate in them. That I am clueless to figure out, when to prepare and show up for my event. Last but not least, the friendships I've developed during this Regatta nonsense are bogus, because Regattas..............
#53 Thu, 05/22/2008 - 7:06pm
Oh, Sonia... Heineken cup? Please indulge...
#54 Fri, 05/23/2008 - 12:09am
Yeah, Heineken cup! They need some attendance. Hong Kong, Australia, Guam... lets get some Hawaii in there! Oh wait its only 12 miles for the middle distance. Still... just think, if you win, you could drink Heinie out of your Heinie cup. I see endless fodder for jokes such as the die-hard "Keep your hands off my Heinie."
http://www.ocpaddler.com/node/490
#55 Fri, 05/23/2008 - 1:00pm