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Part 1) Shoot for 24 - 30 oz. per hour.

Part 2) How much is that in liters? I don't know. I think 1 oz. equals 1/2 liter... or something like that.

To clarify: Part 1 was serious. Part 2... well, what do you think?

#1 Wed, 06/11/2008 - 2:23pm

I think 35 oz is a liter

#2 Wed, 06/11/2008 - 2:34pm

There's no straight answer on this since a multitude of factors need to be considered:
- Training State
- weather temp (ambient temp, humidity)
- individual differences in water loss -sweat rate
- type and intensity of the exercise
- type of clothing during exercise that may facilitate water lost
etc....

1 liter = ~4 cups
Therefore, base recommendation is 0.5 to 1 cup every 15 minutes or 1 liter per hour.

Then you get into the complex issues of CHO (carb supplementation) and sodium maintenance for exercises/races over an hour and gastric emptying rates since these need to be transported into the "system" - drink too much, and you get that bogged down heavy feeling in your stomach and cramps.

Maintaining some type of day to day body weight log before and after exercise may be practical and useful in determining your sweat rate while keeping track of fluid intake volume to determine the ultimate fluid loss - taking into account a portion of that weight loss will be attributed to glycogen used during exercise.
In general, one pound of body weight = ~2 cups of water.

Long term wise, body weight log may be helpful in determining if catabolism is taking place due to a caloric deficit - not eating enough so muscles do not get repaired and replenished.

Someone may correct me on this but I also think for every gram of glycogen, is 2 grams of water. Thus it sorta makes sense why when you carbo load, you also draw in a lot of water with it - like a sponge and why some ppl experience huge weight losses after a long endurance event.

apologies for the technicals if its TMI

[ I think (uncle) was the person interested in doing the molo - so these are a small bit of factors to consider for hydration]
Aloha~

#3 Wed, 06/11/2008 - 2:51pm

Its not just a matter of how much you drink during your race, its a matter of being properly hydrated before the race. Proper hydration is a 24/7 undertaking. Dehydrate and it takes 2-3 days to catch back up.
Simple way to tell if you're staying hydrated is that you pee clear, and have to get up during the night to pee.

#4 Wed, 06/11/2008 - 5:00pm

also need to be aware of drinking too much water- hyponatremia, which is potentially fatal condition... esp. in the longer races.
read this article

#5 Wed, 06/11/2008 - 7:56pm

Yeah, slamming down a gallon of water before an event is not the smartest move, but for most people, dehydration is more common than over hydration.

#6 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 5:37am

only difference is there's never been a case of someone dying from dehydration in a race, but multiple cases of people dying from overhydrating during races.. you don't even need to slam a gallon of water before the race to have the problem- but it's easy to pound liquids continuously through a 4-5 hour race, because we've all been taught to keep drinking- and no doubt, you need to hydrate- just need to watch to not overdo it.

#7 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 7:49am

In the article they make it sound like a properly balanced electrolyte solution will cause depletion of sodium as easily as pure water will. In the cases of hyponatremia that I have read about the person always drank pure water in excess to create the condition, not a electrolyte solution. I think that is an important distinction!

#8 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 10:11am

From the Mayo Clinic

"During long bouts of intense exercise, it's best to use a sports drink that contains sodium, as this will help replace sodium lost in sweat and reduce the chances of developing hyponatremia, which can be life-threatening. Also, continue to replace fluids after you're finished exercising."

#9 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 10:32am

Salt pills work'd best for me. I'd take it before a distance race to prevent losing all or most the liquids I drank the morning of, for hydration. Because I'd always get side pain from hydrating during a race, my doctor, who is also an avid ironman competitor, suggested taking salt pills. But of course, like all other OC meds, read the label and talk to your doctor about it first.

Do or do not.. there is no try.

-Yoda

#10 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 11:01am

I would say that there are many, many, more instances of dehydration, but because it is simple to deal with and its the first guess when someone collapses in a warm (or hot) endurance event, the result is no deaths due to it. People shouldn't be scared away from proper hydration.

#11 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 11:27am

beer comes in all sizes from 8oz to 12 oz to 16 oz
but i think u should go for the 40oz.

#12 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 12:53pm

And when they tell you one more beer and it's time to go, there's the 22 oz.

#13 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 1:25pm

I think anyone who is worried about hydration should read up on how balancing of fluids occur in your body's cells. Sure you need water, sure you need sodium but you should be asking why does my body need water and why does my body need sodium. Then you'll have a better understanding of what and how much to drink. Its actually pretty interesting stuff and you'll be surprised at what you find like it doesn't matter how much water you drink, if you cells have lost all its sodium its over baby!!!

Read up baby! Do your research! Google it!

Pooipieie

#14 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 2:08pm

Is it ok to just make sure your taking in the right amount of sodium per day? Or does it need to be more time directed around your paddling for the day? Any opinions/info? Just when im getting the carb/protein timing down and then sugar intake comes into the timing mix and now sodium. Makes it tough for those who are infatuated with this kind of nerdy stuff!

#15 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 8:45pm

The popular mixes (gatoraide, accelerade, cytomax, hammer) have the correct ratio for most of what 99% of us do. I know many cyclists who take the above drinks and add salty snacks like pretzles here and there but this is from a lot of experimentation to get it right and this really extream all day exertion. There is a lot of good info on rambos site and the hammer advertisement has great educational articals. I am sure persons who do ultra endurance (Rambo and others here who have done loooonnnngggg) events have some more personal experience, but those who do the century runs across the desert (badwater) that is interesting...you will be well off to eat the standard american diet which is already overloaded with salt and take one of the above mixes. While the channel crossings are pretty amazing events put in perspective of the multiday ultra events you have some margin for error as long as you dont do anything stupid like drink a gallon of plain h20 before the race! That is exactly how althletes dehydrate themselves to drop weight or get "dry ripped" drink distilled h20 on a very low sodium diet.

#16 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 10:08pm

Just as a disclaimer, don't take my word for it because I'm going strictly on memory but you can verify by running your googonator ...

The short version - just eat! If you consume a positive calorie balance with a VARIETY of foods, based on your energy expenditure and basal metabolic rate, you will probably meet your sodium needs. During long endurance races, bring along some sodium containing food/drink - pretzel, sodium tablet, what ever works. The main point is - "Listen" to your body.

The long version...
I believe the upper limit (UL) tolerance on sodium intake for adults is between 2000 to 2500 mg per day. If you pick up any food item and look at the nutrition label, you will notice a lot of ppl will not have any problems meeting the UL and may even exceed it, and for those with hypertension and gravity challenges, it becomes a real issue they need to pay attention to because sodium is fairly abundant in the processed foods we eat. This is true for the sedentary population and people who do not train in excess of an hour. For the athlete that trains almost every day and those with "special" diets, sodium monitoring becomes important because even if the athlete consumes 2000 mg sodium, he/she still needs to take into account the amount she/he loses thru exercise and sweat loss. Everyones sweat rate is different, and the classic story relating specifically to this issue can be tied to Mark Allen, Ironman athlete, who for a time, had difficulties beating the number one person. Mark Allen eventually went to a Sports Physiologist on the big big island - forgot the doctors name, so if someone remembers, feel free to blurt it out. But he had a test done on his sweat rate and sodium lost during competitions and found out he needed more sodium. To make the long story short, Mark Allen is probably one of the most successful Ironman athletes.

A couple of factors to consider:
(1) Training state
(2) Hydration status
(3) Acclimation - coming from a cold temperature climate to hot, humid conditions without acclimating for about a week or two and you will pay the price.
(4) Sweat Rate
(5) Fluid (type and volume) intake during the race
(6) Duration of event/race
(7) Race environment - being in the ocean, sometimes its difficult to tell how much sweat you've lost. aka drink regularly and in modest portions.

As someone pointed out earlier, google and you will be surprised to see all the important functions sodium plays from cell balance to signal transmission - the neuromuscular communications link.

it doesn't take much to see performance deficits when the body loses just 1% to 3% of bodyweight from sweat, exhalation, evaporation etc. Just to throw some numbers out - 150 pound person losing 2% bodyweight from sweat lost is about 3 pounds - very conceivable number - will see dramatic declines in power output and performance.

For the physiologically inclined who is wondering why this happens - the long and short of it - total blood volume drops so the heart now has to pump harder and faster to maintain blood flow throughout the body increasing exercise heart rate - cardiovascular drift. A dyhydrated person now has to work harder for the same workload then the properly hydrated competitor.

The other factor, acclimation, during the process of cooling/maintaining body temp., part of the blood is shunted from the muscles to the skin to provide cooling, leaving LESS blood to provide valuable oxygen to the exercising muscle. Oxygen is key to performance in endurance sports (aka why so many Tour de France athletes got caught blood doping - more blood means more oxygen transporters). Acclimating to your racing conditions is invaluable to preserving your energy for where you needed most - your muscles.

Imagine all these cumulative factors coming into play for a 5/6 hour moloka'i race and the difference it makes on your final race times.
And this doesn't even take into account other factors such as glycogen depletion and muscular endurance.
Wow that was way too long. Apologies for that long one.

#17 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 10:21pm

Lots of great info thank guys. Based on my diet and training schdule and the climate here I think I might try adding some salt. I read an article saying that cyclists need more sodium than average sports drinks provide and then it went on to talk about how to calculate and thats where I got lost. I know they train longer but it sounds like it wouldnt hurt by any means.

#18 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 10:26pm

There's much information on the web, it can be difficult to know what is accurate so here's some people worth googling for detailed info... they have some pretty impressive backgrounds...
Dr. Per-Olof Ã…strand - probs the Godfather of Physiology
Dr. David Costill
Dr. Nancy Clark
Dr. Edward Coyle
Dr. Alan Titchenal is the Sports Nutritionist at the University of Hawaii

#19 Thu, 06/12/2008 - 11:10pm