"Bury the blade from the side" for a good catch? Differnces between OC-1 and 6 man

I have been trying to focus on getting my catch as far forward as I can. After seeing a video of myself paddling even though I thought I was doing a great job I am starting my stroke before the blade is buried.
On the vid below (thanks to mindy's blog) the coach talks about burying the blade from the side to get a forward catch:

http://s1.video.blip.tv/1030000345113/Mindy-LearningTheOutriggerStrokeWi...

Is the 6 man teaching good for OC-1 or are the two strokes different (eg longer in OC-1 vs 6 man) and comment on "bury the blade from the side" for helping to get that forward catch?

Many thanks for your help!
Shawn

Submitted by Shawn Michael on Tue, 07/15/2008 - 12:13am



"Bury the blade from the side" - doesn´t make sense if you are trying to go forward.
Better to recover the blade from the side - get the benefit of positioning the body correctly, but bury the blade (for catch) by going down into the water...not sideways into the hull!

I´ve been told the 1-man (V1) stroke exits a little further back (for steering), but otherwise the V1-V6 strokes are the same...


#1 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 4:40am


I'd like to think the only difference between my one-man stroke and y six-man stroke is that I pull further back on the one-man.

Entering from the side is a tool to help get a better catch, this is done because when you enter from the side your first motion is to get the blade in the water not to pull back.


#2 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 4:43am


Right: entering from the side (slipping it in), allows you to get a clean catch with a good load on the front of your stroke. It is an easier form of loading the blade. But, you must make sure you take advantage of that clean catch with a good, powerful load.
With oc-1, you spend more stroke-time in the water because of less momentum/ inertia.The longer pull gives you more carriage. oc-6, being bigger and heavier, will have more momentum so you don't want to hold onto the back of the stroke for very long. Get a clean exit so as to not take away from the glide(carriage).

"Check out the brain on Brad"


#3 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 6:26am


It makes a lot of sense because if you come in from the side, as you just said you are doing it before you are starting to pull back. So you are doing a D with a side exit and a side entry.

I think I just love the feeling of a long stroke and doing a shorter higher rate is just a lot harder and a lot less fun for me, maybe I am unknowingly resting the back and killing my boat though I feel like I exit smooth.

That is why I choose OC-1 even though I was encouraged to surfski, I like the feeling of a long stroke driving all the way through the way I thought I saw Jr, arron Napolean, Luke E doing but I did feel the boat glide better with a shorter faster stroke.

Many thanks for the helpful posts.. more stuff to work on on Weds if the sewage spill has resolved.


#4 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 10:47am


Yeah, making a big "D" is right, but the blade entering from the side? Sounds fine if your canoe is stopped. In a moving canoe, by the time you enter from the side, press down and pull, you've probably lost about 3 inches of your stroke.


#5 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 4:45pm


Actually, it sounds like something that might happen if someone is too tired to keep up with the stroker.


#6 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 4:47pm


"Yeah, making a big “D” is right, but the blade entering from the side? Sounds fine if your canoe is stopped. In a moving canoe, by the time you enter from the side, press down and pull, you’ve probably lost about 3 inches of your stroke."

the whole point of the side entry is to eliminate the "press down" part.. you can start the pull fully loaded since you've sliced in to get your catch.

since it's coming from a different direction to set your blade before you start your power phase, there's less of a tendency to start your power phase without a full load, which can happen if you set up above the water.

i think psychologically it might be a little easier to train your brain since different directions are broken into different movements.

if you set up above the water, it breaks down to
1, recovery, (blade moving forward)
2. set up above water (blade stopping)
3. catch and pull (blade move back)

since the catch and the power is in the same direction, people (incl. me) have a tendency to start the power without the full catch, even with the best intentions.

if you catch slicing in from the side
1. recovery flaring from side, (blade moving forward)
2. catch at end of recovery (blade moving forward and sideways)
3. pull (blade moves back)

not to say one way is wrong or right...obviously people move the boat both ways...

disclaimer: i'm not an expert, just a paddler with an opinion distilling coaching and feedback and personal observation.


#7 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 5:06pm


Maybe more people will chime in here. We might be splitting hairs here... However, if I ever told any of the coaches that I've had that I was going to eliminate pressing down from my stroke, I'd be out of the crew. I've always been taught that you lift the boat up and forward, not plow.

I'm not an expert either and I'm not trying to start anything. This just seems odd to me.


#8 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 5:47pm


just watch john puakeas paddling clinic its the best one out there..


#9 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 6:06pm


Here is the thing Kaimiloa, if you are swinging up to the catch and you don't put your blade fully in the water before pulling back (which almost everyone does even with the "D" stroke) you miss out on a lot of water. The lifting the boat up and out of the water is absolutely right and you should do that. Also the "D" stroke does not plow water, it is just a different way of getting a full catch as Dacho said above.

Just to pass by some more information the part of the stoke that gets the boat up and out of the water is the catch not the pressing down. This is because the first initial movement of the stroke ie "the catch" propels the boat forward which cause speed that then in turn lifts the canoe. The press down (in my mind) is the part of the stroke that is allowing speed to maintain through to the exit and recovery so the boat doesn't "sit" back down in the water.

Again every person has a different type of stroke that will work for them. Something that works for me might not work for the next.


#10 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 7:02pm


I watched the video and its what I and most every paddler I know does. No chicken wing/bringing the paddle straight back forward stuff. I thought Shawn was talking about doing the D, but entering the water before the D was complete. I pretty sure we're all saying the same thing but not understanding each other.


#11 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 7:41pm


Thanks I learn a lot of reading this stuff. I used to do powerlifting and it is amazing how important technique is in things that seem so simple, like pressing a bar off your chest. Many thanks!


#12 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 9:06pm


Because you're coming in from the side, it is easier to set the blade with a full (or fuller) catch. If you start to pull and you don't have a full "purchase" (term used by uncle jimmy kincaid"), you haven't fully loaded the blade. We were all taught to "slip the letter in the slot" a term used to get a clean,yet deep catch, but that is harder than slipping it in from the side with one smooth move. Sort of in the shape of the letter D. (Looking from above the stroke)


#13 Tue, 07/15/2008 - 11:32pm


With OC-6 paddling, it all depends on the crew on how or what you end up doing to end up moving the boat. Pretty much everyone does the D shape, but not everyone does the enter the blade from the side technique.

I've seen novice paddlers doing this and end up losing control of the blade cutting in sideways and end up whacking the side of the boat. It's fine when you're in the practice boats and learning early in the season, but not when you're in your koa or racing boats at the races. Hopefully by then they've learned how to control the side entrance of the blade.

The main thing is you don't go too far back on the stroke to where you are lifting water upwards behind you, and end up pulling the boat down.

In an OC-1, you are closer to the water (in my opinion) that you don't need to enter sideways to get a good clean, deep catch.


#14 Wed, 07/16/2008 - 1:04am


E7M,

Agreed with the pulling back in the six-man, you come to far back and it kills the canoe. But what you said about the OC-1 I dont think so. I mean you can get a full blade anyway you want but if you dont your losing out on a lot of water. The D stroke is a lot easier to do when your down that low.

Note if your are first trying this stroke out or any stroke that heavily involves the catch, your first reaction is that it's going to feel really heavy and slow. This is because YOU ARE PULLING MORE WATER, so it will feel like your doing something wrong when in actuality you are doing something right.


#15 Wed, 07/16/2008 - 9:41am


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