I have a general question for paddlers in Hawaii. I've heard that there is a rule against "mechanical bailing" in races. What exactly constitutes mechanical bailing? Lets say, hypothetically, that someone crafted a device that was entirely person-operated, but isn't a bailer per se. No batteries or external power source though. Would this be mechanical?
Submitted by Marit on Mon, 08/25/2008 - 2:08pm
Interesting question... what kind of device are we talking about, hypothetically of course? Does it involve moving parts or anything that could be considered a machine?
#1 Mon, 08/25/2008 - 2:50pm
basically a siphon. No permanent attachment of anything in the boat. OHCRA race rules say:
"No mechanical means of bailing water out of a canoe are allowed."
Just looking for anyone with insight or better knowledge on whether the current method (e.g., sawed off plastic jug) is really the only way to go.
Is a siphon considered mechanical?
#2 Mon, 08/25/2008 - 4:00pm
If and that is a big IF my memory is correct this was tried in some form.
A large bladder was placed in bottom of canoe that had a one way valve that would allow water into it through the rocking motion of the canoe and wave action. It would be pulled up (it was difficult to pull up) and the 10 to 15 gallons was dumped out of the bladder. It was cumbersome and only tried for a while.
Yes you bailed less often but the weight of the water wasn't worth it
I am sure others will weigh in.
#3 Mon, 08/25/2008 - 5:30pm
Thanks for the comment! So as you recall, it was tried but discarded because of cumbersome design, but not because it was ruled illegal?
I have something similar in mind but I think I can improve on it a bit. Have tried it in a stationary canoe on land, but not out on the ocean. I'd like to try it in a race, but not if its gonna get me DQ'd.
#4 Tue, 08/26/2008 - 9:44am
how about that bladder idea in the front tank and connected to a pump....most times, the pump is on to keep it empty, but downswell, turn the pump off to get some extra weight in the front...this would probably be way illegal in hawaii, but so cal allows mech. pumps, which we put in the center of the boat
#5 Tue, 08/26/2008 - 10:01am
A few Venturi drains could work best. Plug them up from the inside; only open when too much water on board, close after use.
#6 Tue, 08/26/2008 - 12:14pm
I have paddled on a sailing canoe without the sailing rig (so a 6 man) and it had a Venturi drain that you would step on and it would flip down to drain water and then you could pull it back up to close it. Really simple and effective, but I believe that it is against the rules to use in Hawaii, but was okay on this canoe because it was a sailing canoe.
#7 Tue, 08/26/2008 - 2:10pm
Nevslin I believe you're talking about an Elvstrom bailer they work great on sailing craft. I put one into an openocean scull years ago and it worked great. Maybe against the rules in OC6 though.
#8 Tue, 08/26/2008 - 2:42pm
Hmm... I haven't heard of the Elvstrom bailer before. Would you call it "mechanical"? Or would it be considered an attachment to the canoe? Either of those would rule it out, I think.
#9 Tue, 08/26/2008 - 3:00pm
If it is built in to the canoe, is it still considered an "attachment"?
http://chetcomarine.com/browseproducts/ELVSTROM-BAILER.html
#10 Tue, 08/26/2008 - 6:21pm
I have found a bunch of sponges put in your boat work well. As you take on water the spnoge sucks up the water and you simply throw over board. For a long race it might be tough but anything under 2 hrs I have found it works really well.
#11 Wed, 08/27/2008 - 3:49am
turtles and birds must love that.
#12 Wed, 08/27/2008 - 5:59am
"turtles and birds must love that."
nice.... an ocean full of brightly coloured sponges. :P
that would be like leaving a floating breadcrumb trail.. perhaps we could color code our path across the channel?
Hey bra, look.. there's some green sponges... we must be on the same course as Lanikai!
#13 Wed, 08/27/2008 - 8:33am
I am teaching kids not to throw anything in the Ocean ! Stay away from me with your sponges, I ma ram into your canoe...
#14 Wed, 08/27/2008 - 1:19pm
aren`t sponges actually dead animal skeletons? i be seein' nothin' wrong wi' that as long as ye be usin' 100% all natural organically grown sponges.
#15 Thu, 08/28/2008 - 2:07pm
What about a simple siphon? Long piece of tubing, no mechanics involved, right? No permanent attachment to the canoe. You'd look kind of funny getting it started though.
#16 Thu, 08/28/2008 - 2:25pm
I like that sponge idea. Just don't ever huli or have back up bailers....
#17 Thu, 08/28/2008 - 2:35pm
Any kind of bailing that is not "manual" would be considered mechanical.
From an officials point of view.
#18 Thu, 08/28/2008 - 6:17pm
I'm sure that our friend was talking about artificial sponges. Natural ones don't suck as much water...
Sonia, I was also thinking about the siphon trick. Will give it a try.
#19 Fri, 08/29/2008 - 6:27am
These ideas sound pretty difficult. I have a simple one:
Grap a bailer, scoop water, throw it out of the boat, and repeat.
#20 Fri, 08/29/2008 - 7:16am
yea, but then you lose seat 4 for a side while they bail. Besides that is way too simple - It is our duty to over analyze this concept.
What is the reason for no bailing aides in Hawaii - don't tell me it is to keep paddling traditions alive.
#21 Sat, 08/30/2008 - 4:12pm
Maybe just squeeze the sponges overboard and then put them back. In a change race or something though where you bring a lot more water in the boat I don't think that would be very effective though.
#22 Sat, 08/30/2008 - 8:12pm
Hey guys, bailing is a skill and another reason why we should be proud our sport is so different from others. The Top Crews will make a move when they see another crew bail, it can make or break a race and it's all part of racing smart.
I remember in 1995 National Titles @ Rockhampton, Mooloolaba Masters started the race with no covers (as did lot's of crews but not all) and just after the start the weather changed and i had to bail continuously from seat 5 for the entire 16k race. I could never get all the water out, but managed to keep the canoe high enough to maintain our lead in the race, dispite constant swamping. That was until 200 metres from the finish line when we took a huge swamping and sunk the canoe up to the gunnel's. At that point every everyone had stopped paddling and had given up and i was so pissed at having bailed all that way i screamed at the crew to just paddle submarine style to try and make it to the finish line, as we had a sizable lead over 2nd and 3rd canoe. With the encouragement of most of the crowd on the beach we paddled underwater like crazy and passed over the line and won by half a boat length and an excited Ronnie Grabbe through his paddle so high in the air, i don't think it ever came down.
It was one of the sweetest wins you could ever have and was a big part of what built the Mooloolaba Masters into the crew it is today and still gets talked about when the grog flows at the bar.
This was the crew - Rambo, Ronnie Grabbe, Pete Tremain, Adrian Blandford, Neil Campbell, Greg Anderson.
Bailing is a big part of our OC6 sport and history and we should embrace it and become skillful at it, not find ways to bastardize it.
BTW - My excuse for a poor "Shaka" in the photo is, i could barely lift my arms above my shoulders from all that bailing. Did OK at the bar that night though.
Learn to bail !!!!
Cheers Rambo
#23 Sun, 08/31/2008 - 1:03pm
I agree on the bailing 100%.
What's the excuse for the porn staches?
#24 Sun, 08/31/2008 - 1:22pm
Coming soon...
Bailing clinic by Rambo.
#25 Sun, 08/31/2008 - 1:27pm
Kimo said - What’s the excuse for the porn staches?
Hey it was 1995, Tom Selleck was our hero and the local beer needed straining.
Rambo
#26 Sun, 08/31/2008 - 1:44pm