CAN ANYONE TELL ME ? BECAUSE THEY HAVE BECOME FREAKISHLY FASTER THAN EVERYONE IN THE LAST THREE YEARS IN THE MOLOKAI CHANNEL . I KNOW THAT HISTORICALLY IN MOLOKAI , TEAMS HAVE HAD A COUPLE OF NEAR WINS BEFORE THEY BECOME CHAMPS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A FEW . DID SHELL EVER HAVE NEAR WINS LIKE 2NDS , 3RDS , OR TOP 10 FINISHES BEFORE THEY WHENT ON A SUPER HUMAN MARCH TO THREE CONSECUTIVE WORLD RECORD SMASHING TIMES . THEY DIDNT JUST BREAK THE RECORD THE FIRST TIME THEY SHATTERED IT . I CANT RECALL A TEAM OBLIVERATING THE RECORD OF A SPORT BY SO MUCH . I HAVE ALWAYS HEARD ABOUT THERE TEAM INTERNATIONALLY KICKING ASS BUT MOLOKAI IS A MUCH DIFFERENT BEAST THAN ANY OTHER AND THERE PERFORMANCE IS BORDER LINE SHOCKING . I CANT BELIEVE HOW FAST THESE GUYS ARE .
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| m_040c04b10d2f80860d6494448f0ff7ab.jpg | 9.92 KB |
Submitted by paddlepimp on Fri, 10/17/2008 - 11:18am
PADDLE PIMP !!!!!!
#1 Fri, 10/17/2008 - 11:18am
2004
http://www.ocpaddler.com/node/487
i heard that they were messing around and playing mind games with the other teams and didn't catch lanikai.
#2 Fri, 10/17/2008 - 12:35pm
Wow, 15 minutes off an already very fast time in two years! Amazing!!!
#3 Fri, 10/17/2008 - 2:31pm
JAYBIRD
dascho got the info 2004, 2nd. Spooky-suspicious fast the next 3 years......with only 3 members that were on all 3 crews and 2 "rookies" this year. Makes you think huh!
#4 Fri, 10/17/2008 - 6:44pm
J makes me think that if you had a lot more drive and decided to put all your time and effort into something that you can do something really amazing. I mean what you might think of as really fast might be normal over their. What can you say about the time and effort that you have ever done on one thing. The Tahitian mind set is to paddle and to paddle FAST. When you get off work you come online and bitch to us that the Tahitians are cheating when they are out training and trying to prove that they are really that Fast.
Watch the videos they are Fast, and what do you do when someone is better than you, and you want to beat them? You get off your computer and out of your house and put down the time it takes to be the best.
Shut up and Show up.
#5 Fri, 10/17/2008 - 10:20pm
Here it comes again... Hope you have a video showing them cheating jaybird... Well show it to the world or shut the f... up !
#6 Fri, 10/17/2008 - 10:26pm
JAYBIRD
I show up.....all the time, clean.
Hiro C you 1 big CRYBABY. I neva say nothing about cheating. you get one guilty conscience?
I simply said that if an Olympic athelete showed such improvement.....there is a test. ALL pros get tested now. We have no test...we should!!! Then no doubt.
Tpopplar, you take my comments out of context and with 113 posts you spend a lot more time on this venue than I do. I've been to Tahiti and seen first hand what they do, how they train etc. You??? There Paddling is "THE" sport, it is their lifes blood.
#7 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 8:28am
J,
How did your crew do in Molokai? I think Tpoppler's crew went top 10 or 15.
I've heard more crying from you about losing to the Tahitians than crying from Hiro about anything.
If what you say is true I also would love to see the video. However since there are only 3 people who have been on the crew all 3 years you don't think that changing six people might account for some time improvements?
#8 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 8:33am
JAYBIRD Amazing, you guys are like the kids i coach. He said, she said, you said that Hiro C said.
I neva say anybody cheated (last year i saw it) this year. You guys like high school kids, twisting, changing and adding words...get real
neva say i was da greatest, i no brag about nothing. you guys geev me big ha ha ha's. keep me laffin.
Aloha
#9 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 9:17am
there were complaints previously about tahitians riding escort boat wakes... because of that, wasn't an official boat tailing the shell boat the whole time? you think the officials would have flagged something if there was cheating going on eh? it also means sonny is also going along with it since he was leading them across...
they didn't want to win, they wanted to smash.. for simple prides sake, if the top team in tahiti wanted to smash their competition, you think they would want to do it in a way that would diminish their dominance? would you?
give it up already, the cheating talk is getting stale, and starting to sound stupid.
#10 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 9:33am
Shell Va'a lost in 2004 by ten minutes and in 2005 by closer to 15 minutes. In 2006 they won by 15 minutes . . . that is a 30 minute turn around in one year, breaking the record by nearly 12 minutes.
Granted, Hawaii may not have been at their strongest that year, but a 30 minute turn around is a great deal to accomplish naturally, in any sport. People expect records to be broken and thus raise the bar, which keeps competition healthy as athletes are always looking for an edge. In the history of this race, given conditions of the day, it is unusual that a record (set in early 2000) is broken by such an incredible margin (2006 )and then gets dropped again 2 more times in 2007 and 2008. A lower margin of victory is a lot more understandable, 15 minutes is just plain suspicious. No disrespect to the proud Tahitian paddlers, they are top caliber athletes that undoubtedly train hard, but as far as I know, this is the only world championship race with athletes of this caliber that has no testing.
#11 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 10:10am
Jaybird, Enough already with the comments hinting that theres something wrong going on with the tahitian crews that come down and kick our butt. Lanikai improved their time dramatically so are you saying there's something suspicious going on there also. They train harder than the rest of us. Take a trip to tahiti, stay for several months and you'll see for yourself. They are constantly changing the crews by putting in young paddlers. These young paddlers prove themselves in the te aito, super aito, bora bora ironman, etc they didn't just come out of nowhere Youth is the key, some of the clubs talk about it, but lanikai is doing it. We won't get any closer to the tahitians until we get it through our thick skull that experience is great to have but there needs to be a balance you can't beat the recovery that comes with a younger athlete. Lanikai is so far ahead of us because they have been working with their young paddlers to take the lead and take the lead they did. Like the tahitians, these young paddlers have been proving themselves here in hawaii for a while now in the PAA races, molo, relay, kaua'i world challenge, time trials, etc and deservingly moved up to the 1st crew. Look at the time difference from last year. AGE DOES MATTER. Hats off to lanikai, keep leading the way.
#12 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 10:27am
Any way you look at it, Lanikai trained crazy hard for months, pulled up its talented youth and still only beat their best time by a minute or so. Makes you question a 30 minute turn around in a year . . .
#13 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 10:42am
Actually, Lanikai's time this year was right in the same ballpark w/ their winning times in '95 and 2004, with the 2000 time about 3-4 minutes faster than these. The improvement this year was the result of a stroke rate change, according to TC. Additionally, Kai was not on last year's team, and you could argue that his absence/presence has a huge effect on any crew w/ whom he races.
#14 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 10:47am
Obviously, anyone who wins is a cheater. There's no other explanation. Winners are cheaters. There, I said it. So, therefore, any Hawaiian team that ever won Molokai must have also cheated.
Those Japanese teams obviously aren't cheaters because they never win. But they're nice guys. But they should start cheating too.
As my dad always said, "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying"
#15 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 11:05am
Have you ever seen someone on roids?
Did you see our Tahitian crew?
Roids? :/
Seriously???
They are all 2 meters plus in height and practice twice as much as anyone else and are paid so have less distractions.
Roids aren't going to make u go that much faster in paddling. Its an endurance sport. Maybe for sprints.
We should think these things through well before letting them distract us from our main mission.
#16 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 11:12am
maybe we should paddle upwind more to practice ;)
I'm joking... it was funny. Dont hate on that comment :)
sorry downwindonly.
#17 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 11:13am
Paddlepimp!
been too long, where have you been.
$1.80 for a four-pack, unbelievable!
#18 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 12:09pm
Lanikai's time imroved by 13+ minutes from last year. Kai was a huge factor, and he was needed for the faster stroke rate. The young guys helped big time because of their ability to recover quicker than the older guys. Recovery is what its all about.
#19 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 12:43pm
Well there is a difference between KAIWI channel than anywere else in the world . Being fast in Tahiti doesnt mean you're MOLOKAI fast now my friends . Improving your time is one thing but being 15 mins faster than any of the great teams of HISTORY of this great race in ONE year is definately a little suspicious . You california paddlers are so far in the bushes . You guys all cant ride on Danny Chings coat tail and start telling it like it is in Molokai .I mean come on you City folk are killing me . Making this topic out to be an excuse for all of Hawaii because we "hate Tahiti " . That is quite the contrary . Hawaii has always embraced Tahiti's champs it just so happens Shell has jumped so far ahead in KAIWI it makes you wonder . Are they useing performance inhancing drugs ? We will probably never know but the question still remains . And wether anyone likes it or not this talk and speculation taints the wins . Ask Barry Bonds about it .
#20 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 1:38pm
No Jaybird, you didn't say they were cheating, you just wrote "spooky-suspicious fast"..."How far would you go to maintain that edge?"... Talking about Shell Va'a and Marion Jones in the same post...
If all those things mean "Hats off to Shell, I admire such talented athletes" then I have to apologize.
Sounds like childtalk to you ? OK. Please, from now, only say what you mean, and mean EVERYTHING you say.
Here is the first answer I posted for you, I just posted it in another thread by mistake.
Maybe you didn’t say it clearly in this thread but I can remember some of your other posts
“I know what I saw” “They cheated” and other things like that…
Doesn’t “spooky-suspicious fast” implies some toughts about cheating in one way or another ? These are your words.
You have no test… True.
You should… True.
So what are you waiting for ? The athletes are the first ones to want to be tested. Don’t you think they are the first victims of suspicious minds ?
Before leaving Tahiti for the World champs, every paddler get tested. Can you say the same for the american paddlers ?
Maybe you didn’t like the f. word in my previous post. And I agree I should not use this word.
Anyway I still mean the same thing : I you have some evidence, show me. Writing suspicious posts is just too easy.
Also I didn’t say anything negative about Lanikai. They are great athletes and I have admiration for them.
Lanikai times for the past 3 years :
2006 5:32:00
2007 5:05:04
2008 4:51:50
In Tahiti, you will find noone thinking that they cheated ! They have greatly improved their finish times. Maybe by changing paddlers and/or training plans…
So has Shell.
--
#21 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 3:25pm
JAYBIRD
I said what i meant and meant what i said. I also saw what i saw and meant that too.
Hats off to Shell Va'a, Venus Va'a and all of Tahiti. Good race.
Paddling upwind... that's good and i laughed. Mahalo.
Nuff said i'm pau.
#22 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 5:45pm
4:51:50 aint 4:38. For some reason, this reminds me of when Barry hit 73 home runs. What the hell, test the top 5 or 10. Its the only way to be sure.. Besides that, Tahiti along with everyone who raced that day did a great job. The conditions did not make the race easy.. The real champs one that day was pure light..
#23 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 7:36pm
"In Tahiti, you will find noone thinking that they cheated ! " HiroC
That's funny. I first heard the rumor last year from a tahitian source. But hell it's only rumor.
Ever look at Marion Jones in 2000?
#24 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 8:03pm
You my feirnd are a man of few wrods, wtih all of tehm cmonig out wnorg. As soon as you get your foot out of your @#$ come back online and prove your statements with some hard evidence. If not stop bashing what has already happened. Oh yeah I spend time on here but I also spend time on the water, not as much as Id like but I DO PADDLE.
#25 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 8:18pm
"Being fast in Tahiti doesnt mean you’re MOLOKAI fast now my friends."
It kind of does, at least in the past three years =(:)-)
#26 Sat, 10/18/2008 - 9:33pm
Didn't Jr. break the Molo Solo record by about 20 min. the first time he won?
#27 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 2:32am
My crew beat our time from last year by over 20 minutes. Of course we didn't win, or even come close, but still yet, I think we'd better drug test ourselves. Oh yeah, and only three of us were in the crew last year, so even more suspicious. I think coach was feeding us steroid water!
#28 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 8:30am
I might be on drugs myself, and don't even know.......
yeah paddlepimpe, you know me, how come did I got faster from 2006 to 2007 and from 07 to 08?!
I think you got some discussion on your forum topic!
it probably gave you some good laughing time!
good job! =)
#29 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 8:50am
Hey paddlepimp,
So whose time improved the most from 07 to 08 Shells or Lanikai's
#30 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 4:58pm
Its great that many crews improved their time and some by 20 min. I bet these improvements are nowhere near 4:38. Remember what the winner of super ito said..
#31 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 5:54pm
There is suspicion of enhancing performance in many highprofile and professional sports. That is why there is testing. Paddling may not be a profession for many, but the sport is very prestigous. In today's world of sports, we need to understand that there will be some suspicion if records get smashed so bad. You see athletes get banned, suspended or gold medals stripped in sports that have testing. Whats going to stop anyone from using "performance enhancing" in a sport that has no tests...Maybe everyone is clean? Who knows, there are no tests. For over 50 years the winning times have varied and the fastest times are close to 5 hours. If you ask me, 4:38 is very suspicious..
#32 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 7:22pm
There is suspicion of enhancing performance in many highprofile and professional sports. That is why there is testing. Paddling may not be a profession for many, but the sport is very prestigous. In today's world of sports, we need to understand that there will be some suspicion if records get smashed so bad. You see athletes get banned, suspended or gold medals stripped in sports that have testing. Whats going to stop anyone from using "performance enhancing" in a sport that has no tests...Maybe everyone is clean? Who knows, there are no tests. For over 50 years the winning times have varied and the fastest times are close to 5 hours. If you ask me, 4:38 is very suspicious..
#33 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 7:22pm
Maybe it's just that the "Hoe" has now attracted the best of the best and the ceiling has now been broken.
The four minute mile in running sports was not broken for years because in the mind of the Athletes, no one thought that it could be done. Rodger Bannister soon changed all that and following him a succession of runners all did the same because they knew it was possible. All this before drugs were even thought of.
Lanikai's improvement could also be seen as breaking through a ceiling now that they see it can be done.
If you put limits on yourself or a team by entering a race with the thoughts of breaking a record by 1min, then that's probably what you will get. However, leave it open ended and race for something that truly motivates you or the crew,
then anything is possible.
Drugs do not always have to have anything to do with it, i believe we are just now, breaking that "4 minute mile"
Cheers Rambo
#34 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 7:48pm
tommy conner mentioned in another thread that lanikai bumped up their rate from 64-66 to 70-72 and improved their time by 13 min. what if they always went at that rate all the time like the tahitians.
the tahitians have different technique. if there is some technique that affects performance so dramatically then it's not so shocking that records are being shattered. now if shell was a regular year in and year out, and they suddenly started smashing it would be fishy, but what are you comparing? one or two previous appearances? not surprising it took a couple times before the machine clicked...
#35 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 8:15pm
And they improved their bump riding skills.
And did their homework on route selection.
#36 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 8:27pm
this is from 2006.. watch at 30:00 mark, shell surfing.. i think they figured it out ok.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3705954985805751927&hl=en
#37 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 8:44pm
The Tahitians have entirely blown away the myth that they "cannot surf," have dominated the Molokai the past two years, and the best we can do is hint that they are using performance enhancing drugs?
Let's get real. IMO the reason they haven't dominated for a longer period is that they didn't have steersmen with 10+ years on the Kaiwi Channel. Now that they have that, its going to be interesting if paddlers in Hawaii are going to be able to claim the crown back anytime soon.
I think its time for paddlers in Hawaii to rethink our entire paddling schedule. Why do we spend the majority of our season paddling regatta when the Tahitians are paddling distance races basically all the time?
I posit its time to sh*tcan the regatta portion of the season except for the kids. The real enchilada is the Molokai; why is "distance" season given such an afterthought for paddling in Hawaii?
Just my two cents.
#38 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 9:06pm
Compare apples with ...
Shell is a semi pro team.
Let's say we're playing soccer with friends in our backyard. And then we have the opportunity to play against a brazilian team. Would you be surprised to loose 7-0 ? Would you suspect them to be cheaters ? on drugs ? Or would you just reckon they're better than you cause they train harder ?
What do you think about those words : fair-play ?
#39 Mon, 10/20/2008 - 9:06pm