China fires back @ Epic

What does "ganbei" mean? anyone know ?

#1 Tue, 12/23/2008 - 12:12pm

"Good piece Andy. The vast differences between the Chinese legal system and their regard (or lack thereof) for intellectual property rights and those of Americans are certainly at play here. It also would be interesting to find out if Mr. Barton engaged in any "ganbei" which usually cements a working relationship with the Chinese. Looking forward to following this story as it develops, LB

Lydia Dishman
"

So " ganbai" is all it takes to enter into a binding legal agreement in Chinese culture? Who would have known?

#5 Tue, 12/23/2008 - 3:25pm

Aloha hank1, Your wife sounds alot like mine. My wife's 1/2 Portuguese, 1/4 Hawaiian and 1/4 Chinese. She too is hard to understand (mostly my selective hearing I suspect) and yells alot. I wonder it they might be distant relatives or do I dare play the "gender card" ? Mele Kalikimaka, Ken Bailey

#7 Tue, 12/23/2008 - 3:45pm

For many years I was the corporate secretary of a Canadian corporation.

At board meetings, one of the directors bragged about his position on the board of a Canadian-Chinese corporation manufacturing Canadian designed tires under license.

He felt like Marco Polo and after a while it got to be too much. Everything was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful... He was having a grand old time going to China four times a year and going out to luxurious suppers.

All of the sudden, he stopped bragging. A couple more board meetings went by and someone asked how the Chinese joint venture was going.

Well, despite having a contract that gave the Canadians 60% and the Chinese 40% because the Canadians supplied the technology, the Chinese suddenly told the Canadians they were making too much money. The Canadian simply pointed to the agreed upon provision in the contract. The Chinese simply said, "You are getting too much of the profits, we want more."

The Canadians were hardnosed.

The Chinese then arrested the Canadian general manager on a phoney charge. The Canadians no longer came to board meetings in China afraid of being arrested on trumped up charges, too.

The boastful director of the company I worked for, never mentioned China again.

As far as I know the Chinese seized control of the tire company and the Canadians never saw another cent.

I have another great story about doing business in Russia, but heck, we're here to talk about outrigger canoes and fun in the sun, and very few of you guys remember that thing they called communism and what it is like when the government controls everything..

~~~~~~~~~~
YankeeHo'okele
"Anyone can steer the ship when the sea is calm" - Syrus Publilius

#9 Tue, 12/23/2008 - 4:38pm

Most certainly the China bashing will continue, as it is so convenient to not assume one's own responsibility in any matter gone south. I for one have resisted the urge to buy a China made boat. I would be just as hesitant to buy one made in Dubai or anywhere else for that matter. With the exception of automobiles and electronics, I buy American. My sympathies to Epic are tempered by their apparent lack of having done their homework when moving their production facilities out of country. Talk to the smallest of companies that outsource their production overseas and they'll tell you its risky. So Epic took the risk. I'd rather read about Greg Barton,et al bashing their business advisers, then whining about the Chinese. My wife is yelling at me in some undecipherable tongue. Time to go.

#11 Tue, 12/23/2008 - 5:29pm

onnopaddle, I am going to seriously pay for this, but its true. My wife cannot boil water. She is however, the sweetest hula dancer in this town.

#13 Tue, 12/23/2008 - 6:43pm

Out of Country for Epic was from South Africa to China. They had major production problems in South Africa, so China seemed like a good move. I recall Greg almost living in China to make sure things went all right. It is doubtful that they could have produced the large number of skis, cruising kayaks, racing kayaks, etc. in a single other location. Too bad they picked the wrong partner!

#15 Tue, 12/23/2008 - 7:39pm

Manufacturing is a global business meanwhile.

We build with elsewhere made tools using elsewhere made materials, eating imported food during the break.
The only thing local may be the electricity.
All mainstream consumer goods are made elsewhere and imported or at best locally assembled.

I like the products, the price and think that they are producing admirably.
The market pressure keeps up the quality. The canoes made in China are very well made products, afaik.

For what reason would a local worker here produce a better product than a worker over there ?

#17 Wed, 12/24/2008 - 11:36am

Daydreaming of water and wind energy - missed that one.

#19 Wed, 12/24/2008 - 4:52pm

No one says the Chinese can't build a good boat, Heck, I own one, a Fuze. The paint faded off the iakos within two days but otherwise it is just fine and I just got some automotive paint and redid the iakos.

Now, my sons, the Russians had this very elaborate industrial complex known as the "Kama River Plant." It was as if you combined Pittsburgh and Detroit and put them under one roof.

I was a wee boy working for a Fortune One Hundred Company that was big into steelmaking and other aids to manufacturing.

"Low bid, low bid, we'lll make it all back in aftermarket," said the corporate elders. "Parts will wear out and they will only be able to buy replacement parts from us since we have the proprietary rights. We'll make it all back with aftermarket in ten years."

Ten years passed. Parts must have worn out, but strangely, no aftermarket sales.

"Woe is us, woe is us," said the corporate elders. "More than woe, because someone is selling aftermarket replacement parts to OUR CUSTOMERS."

So the corporate elders put a gumshoe to work and we found aftermarket sales were being made out of a P. O. Box in Podunkville, upstate New York.

The gumshoe watched and watched that P. O. Box until he spotted the bad guy. Guess what? He was one of our vice-presidents. Guess what else? He had married a Russian gal while we were helping to build the Kama River Plant. Together they stole the drawings for the aftermarket parts and sold them to the Kama River management.(I think it was the Russian gal's idea, but I'm just naturally suspicious.) Then the Russians started making the parts and selling them to OUR CUSTOMERS.

A normal business can't compete with another business in another country that has the local government's backing and the use of local country's intelligence service.

Moral of the story? Venture forth carefully, grasshoppers. Not everyone is a laid-back dude. I'm sure Peinteur's got some other moral drawn from "pure" communism practice in some remote village somewhere where from each according to their ability, to each according to their need might work for six months if everyone was high on dope.

So endeth today's lesson.

~~~~~~~~~~
YankeeHo'okele
"Anyone can steer the ship when the sea is calm" - Syrus Publilius

#21 Wed, 12/24/2008 - 6:44pm

Jibofo - of course you are right, but barely anybody does it.

I don't see the use of fingerpointing. You can ask moral questions all the way; to shout 'Russia', 'China', 'France', or whatever ... does not make any sense.

Many years ago I made a trip to Marocco, first time to Africa, first time to a Muslim country and a country where I had no clue about the language or any customs.

Dead on arrival I realized how tremendously prejudiced I was: there was a grandma, there a teacher, there a shop-owner, there a little boy, there a young women, there a couple - in other words: everything was exactly the same, with a different touch, as you would expect it at home.
Same emotions, same hopes, same joys, same challenges - no difference.

Business ventures can go bad everywhere. What about that guy that shoplifted 50 billion dollars at Wall Street, now enjoying his holidays at home ? Overall there is no difference.

#23 Wed, 12/24/2008 - 9:19pm

They bought every thing else.

#25 Sat, 12/27/2008 - 8:44pm

Let's just fucking nuke those commie bastards! Fuck those guys-send in the Marines!

#27 Sun, 12/28/2008 - 10:42am

Jim , you should be US embassador to china ..

#29 Sun, 12/28/2008 - 11:33am

Jim I love your subtlety.

#31 Sun, 12/28/2008 - 1:38pm