Weight of OC 1 Canoes - What Would You Prefer ?

In case you are interested in this topic:

Experienced boat builders do not think that boat weight ( a few pounds plus ) should be too much of a concern:

  • impact on performance was not deemed a major factor
  • a boat could be built slightly different and a little more rugged
  • certain areas such as bow, stern, behind the rudder, where you strap the boat down, etc. could be reinforced

Customers may see this different - or not ?

I figure that it would be interesting to know what you paddlers think: ultra-light, medium or extra sturdy ?
Please click this link:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/embeddedform?key=pysrKeQ8s9FmW9HrpAtL9GQ

And here you can see all collected opinions about this:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pysrKeQ8s9FmW9HrpAtL9GQ

Please comment here in this blog, why, and what you would like to see, if you like.

Submitted by eckhart diestel on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 1:10pm



Eckhart,

I'm interested in what the response to this thread will be from the experienced paddlers.
As a newbie, I confess that I haven't really "gotten it", as far as the need to go lighter and lighter. It seems to me like if I lost 3lbs and then paddled a canoe that was 3lbs heavier it would come out about even (I know it's more complicated than that; e.g. the center of mass and weight distribution are different...).
But I would love to see some sort of quantitative comparison, on similar hulls but that have slightly different weights (reinforced hulls vs not).
Consider that a 1liter bottle of water strapped to the back of the boat weighs 1kg ( = 2.2 lbs). I'm not sure that I would even notice if the bottle fell off...
so I don't see how adding 1kg to the boat (i.e. reinforcing it) would make a difference either.


#1 Tue, 02/03/2009 - 3:41pm


You are right. On the other hand a potential buyer may refuse a canoe that weighs 1lbs more than expected, or be entirely proud to own a canoe that is 1 less than expected.

This would force the builders to build as light as possible.

I prefer more fiberglass on the outside because with carbon only you will see every little dent immediately and setting the boat on an uneven surface is enough to cause a dent. But that comes at the cost of added weight.

Generally the lighter the faster. But a boat has to be practical, too.


#2 Tue, 02/03/2009 - 5:15pm


I've said this before
but perhaps a required min weight at big events would help ?
Keep it a "level" playing field
Lower cost of production?
Create a wider market of boat buyers?
Increase participation?


#3 Tue, 02/03/2009 - 5:39pm


stiffness is a big factor when I get a canoe and carbon of reinforcement's make it stiffer than a glass canoe. and jack's the cost .


#4 Tue, 02/03/2009 - 5:51pm


I am new to the whole outrigger canoe thing but I have done extensive research on rowing shells and what I have come up with is a stiffer boat will maintain its design shape through the loads of paddling swell etc and extra weight helps the boat maintain speed between strokes which helps the efficiency constant acceleration /deceleration is less efficient even if the average speed is the same as a hull moving at constant velocity with a bit extra weight it will take a little longer to accelerate as well obviously you have a point where the extra weight starts becoming counter productive but this point is different for all hull shapes and sizes. eg when I did the calcs on my rowing shell about 8 years ago I worked out the most officiant weight for the boat was 22.5 kg where the minimum weight limit was 14kg at the time and if building to this weight you obviously want all this extra stiffening the boat and not just arbitrary ballast


#5 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:43am


hey mupwi , a comma or a space now or then would make that easier to read !!


#6 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:38am


You can breath out now ...hahaha

Mupwi, a single scull is a dog in the ocean, on the flat, different. Stiffness is about the only thing that carries over in an ocean environment, the bulk of the equation is still skill and power.

Cheers Rambo


#7 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:50am


Eckhart,

In some ways you are mis-judging Carbon which
(pound for pound now) takes MORE energy to INITIATE damage. What you are seeing is more a byproduct of the core used rather than reinforcement. Do a test with a piece of foam and 5.7 carbon (Hexcel 282 ) and 5.7 (Hexcel 3733 )glass.

Aloha,
pog


#8 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 3:33am


I agree with Eckhart. The fragillity of carbon boats is ridiculous, I 've incured dents and dings from just bumping it on the racks while loading it on a windy day or bumping a fence, tree, or bumping it with your paddle!


#9 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 4:57am


Think I agree with onnopaddle. What's a dent but where the fiber has flexed and allowed the foam underneath to compress. Takes more to flex carbon (pound for pound) than glass. My carbon canoe has rolled around on the beach, banged trees, walls, and been beaten to death by my paddle.... no dents and its three years old.


#10 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 7:06am


Agree, onnopaddle. Boats seem to differ in this anyway.
Jibofo - but the glass may rather flex and the carbon may rather break.

I have voted for reinforced in the survey. It is a personal preference.

There are two things that I find particularly interesting:

  • do all paddlers want the ultra-light version, does that force the builders to build boats lighter than they would do without this pressure ?
  • is the ultra-light the most practical, or would it make sense to educate the buyer and say 'look this is two pounds more heavy, but this is an advantage overall for this and that reason' ?

If you would buy a carbon frame bike, stability would be a major concern. I would sacrifice a bit of weight reduction for stability.

What is the right balance for OC 1 ?

Again, this is just about opinions, I am not suggesting that one is 'better' than the other.


#11 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 7:52am


For me, the question of "fragility" of carbon vs fiberglass boats is not with respect to "denting", and whether it requires less pressure (force per area) to dent fiberglass versus denting (or breaking/cracking) carbon.

For me it's how easy it is to scratch off the freakin' gel coat on the carbon boats (or whatever you call the outside layer on the carbon boats)... I feel like if I look at it wrong I'm going to scratch it up...


#12 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:15am


I know it's frowned upon to post twice in a row, but...

back to the original question - Eckhart, to me, it's a question of marketing: in a world where the popular concensus (or truth?) is that lighter and lighter is better, how do you market a boat that is not the lightest?


#13 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:23am


"do all paddlers want the ultra-light version, does that force the builders to build boats lighter than they would do without this pressure ? "

Paddlers will obviously want a lighter canoe, but what is a sensible limit? .............Firstly take the yuppie quotient out of the issue and look at it from a practical/technical veiwpoint.

No point in a survey which constitutes the opinion of a majority who are motivated to justify a high expenditure which they are proud to boast of anyway........... While an unknown number of people are not keen to voice an opinion which appears unpopular.

From the manufacturing point of veiw it comes down to this.....whatever sells more makes more profit.
If the thing breaks and needs replacement sooner, then it could be a good thing.
So ultra light sounds like a winner from the supply and demand side. As well as production.

"is the ultra-light the most practical, or would it make sense to educate the buyer and say ‘look this is two pounds more heavy, but this is an advantage overall for this and that reason’ ?"

Assuming the "ultra light" means sub 10Kg (including outrigger), then the answer to the question of practicality is too complex for anyone to cover in one forum message....... looking forward to hearing more on this subject.


#14 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 9:01am


grovpb4 -

I would offer the options - as boat builders already do: ultra-light, medium and sturdy. Then the customer can chose.

The purpose of my asking the question is to find out how important 'ultra-light' is to everybody.

As you can see from the responses, it may not be that everybody is hyped about weight.

The consequence may be that you educate the customers about pros and cons. See koacanoe's link.

goodwaka - I agree with the customers perspective - for some. Builders have to deal with liability, too, - I am not sure that they think profit only.

For the sake of the discussion I would not go to that extreme low weight; 'ultra-light' in my use reflects to the current weight of about 22 lbs wihtout ama.


#15 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 11:09am


Probably mupwi is talking about "amplitude of oscillation?"
If you know your math, it all might make sense? Check out:

http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/physics/weight.html#section9

To me it is all psychological, and it really bothers some paddlers that their canoe is heavier than others. So if they don't perform as expected, they blame it on their too heavy canoe.

Best way to test the performance of weight on canoes is to test them out on a windy day, going up and down wind with identical canoes, but different weights. I've found that there is less weather vane effect with the heavier canoe and on a wave, the heavier canoe is like a Mack truck. To each its own.


#16 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 9:18am


I think there is no exact answer. Am I willing to give up a pound or even 2 and start pushing the integrity of the canoe? Probably not. Would I buy a canoe that was 5 pounds heavier and its supposed to last forever? Probably not. I know it makes for something to talk about but all this "science" behind open ocean outrigger canoe paddling almost gets funny. karel used a China boat last year proving that all the top guys dont win on ultra ultra ultra light boats. Kai designed a way bigger boat than he used to ride. I disagree that local builders will build a lighter, crappier boat just so people have to buy more boats. People buy their canoes because they are built to last. A solid boat, in my opinion, is better because it can take the dings and dents and transporting abuse but im still going to look to replace it in 2 to 3 years or so. Builders will build what you ask them to for the most part. If you ask them for a crazy light boat, youll probably get it, and it will be more fragile also. You can also ask most for a heavier, sturdier boat. Just because a website doesnt list 20 different weight options doesnt mean you cant call and talk to these guys. They are all on the phone and email everyday with their customers talking about this very thing.

The guy that puts his blinders on and puts in his time on the same boat thats comfortable is eventually gonna smoke the guy who keeps chasing the .5 second or .5 pound cuz that .5 pound dont mean squat if you cant read the water or cant catch the little runners that get you into the bigger ones.

I know some team boats are built lighter but I think thats more because everyone checks them out and obsesses over a lighter boat, not because they need the advantage to win or do well.

In my opinion this is not, nor ever will be an exact science because the largest factor is ever changing, the playground. Leave the charts alone and go train.


#17 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:23am


Big factor on the weight reduction side is the surface coating..........Painting is lighter and more expensive than gelcoat, but as we've already heard, it [paint] is not hard wearing.
Gelcoat on the other hand is a compromise when used with high performance laminates -- epoxy does not bond to polyester gelcoat so a bonding coat of non-marine grade is sometimes used between the laminate.

Does the customer really benefit from a technically compromised surface coating, which is harder wearing, because he/she wan'ts a measure of 'lightweight' at the same time as some practicality?.........or does weight reduction just come with unnecesary expense?

Product liability?..........maybe run a survey concurrent to the weight question about customer satisfaction with manufacturer back-up of product.

The mass producers don't repair their own products anyway


#18 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:41am


..... All of which Jp was covered in two words in my post above, skill and power.

Funny how we spend more time talking about boats than training, but that's human nature for you.

Rambo

I'll probably get a PM from Ecky for saying that.....hahah


#19 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:43am


I don't want a lighter boat... I want a bombproof boat.
The only carbon boat I ever bought is a surfski : Fenn XT. It's amazingly strong, it has withstand collisions with other skis, an OC6, trees and even the coral reef with nothing more than a few minor scratches. It's possible to have a strong carbon hull... at the cost of weight, this ski is over 12 kgs.


#20 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:47am


I know Rambo, and that wasnt even the first time youve said it. I, like others, just need something to do. Dont mean anything against the forum. Just putting my 2 cents in.


#21 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:49am


I disagree goodwaka, i find the 2 pack polyurethane paints on the new China canoes very hard wearing and waterproof. Gel Coat on the other hand is porous, fades, gets dirty quick and requires constant maintenance.

If the manufacturers prep the hull surface when it comes out of the mold properly before applying the 2 pack, the resultant skin is ideal for OC. Gel coat is old technology and should be restricted to it's original purpose, to waterproof chopper gun pleasure craft.

Rambo


#22 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:58am


I liked the paint on my China pegasus but it seemed liked it just chipped really easy. Is that maybe the effect people dont like? because the thing looks brand new still so it cant be fading. Its orange and green.


#23 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 11:04am


isnt there a rule in australia where the boats have to be a minimum weight? actually in my opinion it dosent seem to me that having a canoe 3 pounds lighter than everyone else would even make a diffrence, unless you are one of the top guys and coming in second by like five seconds consecutively. then i cold see that fractional change in weight and the correlation in speed making a difference,

when i paddled for highschool, we used to train only in this one homemade force five that was probably five hundred pounds, and it was really good for sprinting because it would keep it's momentum. although in the surf it's usually the first to swamp.
the point of my ramblings is that when we changed to the 400 pound mirage we could not only tell but feel a difference in overall speed and our endurance. and in the end two to three pounds in an oc1 would not make you perform any better, but a drastic change like a hundred pounds definitely would.

probably if you get two people on two different boats like a fiberglass honukai, and an ultralight pegasus there would be a big difference. then in the end it would have to come down to how much better of an athelete is in each canoe.


#24 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 11:13am


i remember at the world sprints people were complaining about how light the rudderless were and how they wouldnt tack right because of this


#25 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 11:16am


Rambo - you get a PM = public mail: in one post you dismiss the talk about OC 1 construction, the next post you happily discuss paint layup ...
The answer must be: " it is not the paint on your boat you need to be concerned about ... :) ".

The initial question is about what the consumers want. Not about performance.

Once I have the results, I would ask 'what do you think about the results ?'

Generally I'd say knowledge is a powerful thing. And - understanding of boat design will make you a better paddler, too.

jp - 'if you can't read the water', nothing will help you in a downwind run. That simply says that water skills are very important for performance. Or 'power and skill'.


#26 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:13pm


You know i'm only stirring the pot Ecky .... keeps it balanced and entertaining.

I could post some Mahatmark videos instead!!!! .... hahaha

Cheers Rambo


#27 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:04pm


Rambo; you're quit right............PU 2 pack on a carbon/epoxy laminate is the sensible thing. The paint is not hard but is tough, and with care taken it should last for the expected 2-3 year life of use.

When the craft is left lying on the beach for 10 or so years in between being dragged over the ground, then the old technology has proved to give good service


#28 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:10pm


But your your going beyond understanding. Your basically asking why dont builders offer 20 different layups and custom canoes and this and that if the consumers want it? Those very options are possible, anything is - but at what cost? If someone wanted to they could build a one off bullet proof canoe that weighs 10 lbs - it might cost you $20k though.

What if more than 4.5 people in Hawaii could build quality canoes? 4.5 being Kai, Karel, Kamanu, Tiger, and Maui is .5 since im told he only does it part time.


#29 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:17pm


There are customers that refuse to accept a boat, because it comes out 1 pound heavier than expected.

When I heard that, I thought: that is not reasonable.


#30 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:21pm


Unless that guy was bigger than me id want to slap them


#31 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:26pm


Jude at Huki offers 11 different layup options ranging from $2200-$3600 and thats not even figuring custom reinforcement that he'll do. So it is very possible to offer the customer a choice. Not everyone needs or can afford a $4000 carbon/carbon canoe. But from the builders standpoint obviously it is simpler (and more profitable) to say, "this is what you get".


#32 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:27pm


Your right Jibofo. Ultimately we cannot have our cake and eat it too. What I dont want to see happen is that only the wealthy or sponsored get the good canoes. I dont think were there yet but I think we are headed that way.


#33 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:35pm


withdrawn - didn't add anything to the original discussion.


#34 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:18pm


And in almost every language, I would imagine, on public forum sites people dont always get what they ask for. I think this one proves that well. Your asking questions, and talking. Im doing the same. Sorry if you dont like how I interpret your questions. Like I said earlier, im just killing time while discussing my favorite subject.


#35 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:48pm


This one will set you all off.....

What I'd like to see is an indestructible, polyurethane, rotomoulded OC1 (don't care in the slightest the weight) that sold for $1000 or less so kids & newbies could get out on the water soonest and cheapest..... So clubs could have fleets of 'em for training.... So people who can't stand clubs could throw them in the truck and take them on holiday (sorry, "vacation").... So paddletour companies could use outriggers instead of the ubiquitous sea-kayaks (YUK!)

Even if they weighed 40 kg, I bet people would still race them.


#36 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:19pm


So proper. Relax man.


#37 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:31pm


sure, pass the pakalolo - the dream can get bigger


#38 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 3:02pm


It seems like threads having to do with boat design inevitably devolve into the same (divisive) themes: those that say, "forget the boat and just go train", those that say "you can already design any boat you want, so asking the question", and those that say "if we improve everyone's boat, everyone will simultaneously move up 7 places on the leaderboard, so stop asking the question".

My interest in the subject is 1) purely academic, and 2) looking for an answer to the question "When can I stop buying the latest and greatest boat?" or "What am I getting for my money if I buy the new, improved (lighter) boat?"

Related rants: I was perfectly happy with my regular TV, until someone told me that I needed a flat screen. I was perfectly happy with the quality of my DVD player until I saw BlueRay (ok, that one really is better...). My wood racket was good... til the aluminum one, til the graphite one, til the oversized head one... etc!

So in short, I think some items progress, but others reach a point of diminishing returns (like the tennis racket... how much better can they make them?).

So I'm looking for someone to tell me that we've pretty much built OC-1's as good as we're going to make them, and the difference is now the paddler. I'm waiting for someone to tell me, "Don't bother paying for the Pueo, or whatever the new hot boat is because the difference is minimal". I would actually be pretty happy if that's the case, because then I'm going to use my fiberglass Nai'a, because it's cheap and it has a dolphin on it...


#39 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 3:42pm


I'm with Capnron, a plastic canoe would be great, doesn't even have to be the full length (say 17 feet) way more manageable.

But I still want my 21 foot OC1 that weighs 20 lbs. The market value of the plastic canoe would be huge, think how great it would be to bash the shore break in that sucker instead of your $4000 canoe, or 20ft Makaha, mmm the possibilities of destruction!


#40 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 5:47pm


I know this much. For years I offered many different laminations, but inevitably most chose that witch was light, stiff, and strong. So now i offer one lamination and work with the customer on their personal needs. The other part is that I can't afford to inventory a bunch of materials that I will only use on occasion. 2 part PU is great, durable, many colors and prolonged gloss retention, but it is more harmful, and costly, to spray.

Tiger


#41 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 6:26pm


Well i'm happy to spell it out. (I have previously anyway)

Train more, learn more skills, be good to your wife and do more races.

Buy a new boat every 3rd year ....

and all chip-in so Captn Ron can buy a Plastic boat.

Cheers Rambo


#42 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 6:48pm


you're a mate, Rambo. I'll send you a paddle one of these days.


#43 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 7:02pm


It's not plastic, but it is relatively cheap. Chesapeake Light Craft, a kit boat supplier on the east coast, is going to be coming out with an OC-1 kit sometime soon (as in this year, probably by this summer). Supposed to take about 80 hours to build and retail for about half a new OC-1 (~$1500). They make a bunch of SUP boards and all kinds of other boat kits and seem to be a pretty good company. No personal experience, but thought you all would be interested in that one since it meets most of CapnRon's desires.

Hire, what type of construction do most boats in Tahiti use? I'm assuming you have all fiberglass boats except the surfski you mentioned? Just curious.


#44 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 7:19pm


If I could afford it I would have a

1 Lightest low volume flat water OC1

2 a big wave ocean surfing OC1

3 a all around tough training OC1

I think I have a problem


#45 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 7:52pm


It is obvious that many people want a light boat. In the survey it seems to even out.

I had a new ama in my hands today that felt extremely light, to the degree that I was very cautious while carrying it back to my car.
The same type ama, different boat, was returned to the beach with a deep circular crack after youth group training this afternoon.
Very likely a technical mistake by the paddler in the shore break, I have not seen the accident.
But definitely not a construction that allowed for this mistake.


#46 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:03pm


And the same paddler will call in to Mc Donald's on the way home and order two Giantasorus burgers and think nothing of it.

Rambo


#47 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:22pm


Captn Ron, i want Laura's paddle, No 11 in your album.

I like that one. Is it still a secret???

Have to come up and paddle your DIY 4 man one day? Looks like she might take a sail as well by the bow height.

Rambo


#48 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:30pm


Ah, Rambo, so you know him .


#49 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:41pm


Know him !! ............ Captn Ron is a walking talking encyclopedia on all thing Polynesian, having built a boat, sailed, explored and studied half the Pacific and owns every flaming book written on the subject. I think he keeps "Canoes of Oceania" (Alfred C. Haddon, James Hornell) under his pillow permanently.

Rambo


#50 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 9:04pm


anowara, canoe shapers in tahiti can build you a glass/poly or carbon/epoxy.
I won't buy a carbon V1, for I am not such a good paddler that the lighter weight will make a huge difference... I can have 2 glass canoes for the price of 1 carbon canoe !
philippe bernardino (shaper of the teva nui, the V1 used for world champs) can make carbon V1 under 8kgs !


#51 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 9:14pm


Rambo, you wouldn't want the missus' paddle - it's got pink glitter all over it (and it weighs a bloody ton! plywood shaft with flukes made from old house studs) It was a quick knockup to verify blade angle but she won't part with it. May not be secret for much longer.....

Not enough room under the pillow, old boy. Canoes of Oceania is on the shelf over the chart table with the Hawaiian and Maori Dictionaries, Buck's Arts and Crafts of Hawaii, both Cook's and Banks' journals, Lewis' We, the Navigators, Payne's planing text, a full set of Marchaj, Chapmans', Nicholl's Concise Guide & Bowditch.

Eckhart, Ramboscie's had a go with the latest paddle. Maybe you could get some feedback from him.


#52 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:34pm


I wonder if the guy who turned down the boat over a pound would have even known if they had lied and said it was xx lbs? Not to say they should have, just that how much if it is in your head at that point? I can understand the difference between 22 and 25. But 21 and 22?? That sounds ridiculous.


#53 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:48pm


Yep, ridiculous. This is why I brought it up; I hope people relax a bit about it.

Ron, do you think second hand feed back is good enough when it comes to a 40 % gain in efficiency ? Not so, paddle needs to make it to Hawaii :).


#54 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 11:09pm


Get in line Ecky and get those dollar signs out of your eyes ....hahaha

Rambo


#55 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 11:12pm


There are customers that refuse to accept a boat, because it comes out 1 pound heavier than expected.

and boats gain weight with age... I had the curiosity to weight my surfski when it was brand new... and again a few months later (using same scale)... it was 1 kg heavier ! I think it may have to do with resin not being completely cured the first time and gaining weight with moisture while curing ?


#56 Wed, 02/04/2009 - 11:28pm


Paul Gay - extremely experienced - says that you cannot avoid boats to take up water, they all do it over time.
Unless you keep them out of the water of course.

Rambo - those dollar signs gave way for some tears today - when I bought a canoe.


#57 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 12:09am


So what's that now a Hurr, a Zephyr and a Pueo?

You cried because you parted with some money or the Peuo was everything you eva wanted??

Rambo


#58 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 12:48am


He's crying because Paul probably told him to buy a Naia Iki or loaned him his and now the regrets set in?

Anyway, I bet if the top 5 guys, in last week's Oahu race, were on older generation canoes, the results would have been the same?


#59 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 8:58am


Haha - I didn't really cry, just some tears, certainly no dollar signs - was it sorrow, was it joy ? :).
Add Fusion and my 'Newman's Own, version III'.

Now add to this a 52" 'Cap'n Ron' and I am set.

Everything I ever wanted - I am not sure. If I had experience on the Pegasus I could give you a better answer. The reasoning would be about the same as what you posted when you got your Peggy.

The only thing lacking is indeed Paul's Naia Iki; I have never dared to ask him to allow me to test ride. I think it is the name, iki = small, that makes me hesitate.

koacanoe - maybe hype, maybe real - some of my boats work better for me than others, somewhat depending on conditions.


#60 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 9:51am


Grovpb4,

I like this saying,

"don't chase technology 'cause you'll never catch it."

Tiger, hope the state is not pressing too hard on you for just trying to do what you love.

Aloha,
pog


#61 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 10:07am


and boats gain weight with age…

This comment reminded me of an incident with my first canoe. It was sitting on the beach on race day and I had run up to the staging area for somethintg. A toddler found his way to my canoe, pulled the drain plug out, and began filling the drain hole with sand! Luckily, he was caught early enough to not get to much in (I think).

Keep an eye out on your canoe.


#62 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 10:35am


there was this old glass canoe at the club house that leaked just enough . so that at the end of practice I would be carrying and extra 20 pounds and found that worked well for a workout. them someone went and fixed the dam thing.


#63 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 10:58am


mulus I think I paddled its sister canoe...


#64 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 2:09pm


You mean that canoes aren't supposed to get heavier every time they are in the water?


#65 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 6:33pm


Eckhart:
Me too! At over 200+ lbs., I scared. But now if Paul were able to stretch that Iki out a foot to a foot and a half (21.5 - 22 ft.), it will probably hold me and fly too?


#66 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 9:51pm


Paul is stretching an OC 6 at the time, almost done.
He is planning to redo a Hurricane. The Naia Iki is too good for him, he will not change it.

He has changed one, I think for Arlene, recently, moved the foot wells, but didn't make it longer. Arlene is flying.

If you have one - let's do it.


#67 Thu, 02/05/2009 - 10:31pm


Eckhart: Sorry, no more. Unfortunately, there arn't many out there where the probability of picking up a couple of damaged ones and joining the hulls to form a stretched model or maybe even a 2-man exists?


#68 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 8:42pm


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