Just curious how many of you give way to technique to push it harder when needed like in a race or just up against the guys in a run? Who sticks to good technique and doesnt give in to the urge to put more muscle into it and has seen good results? Im working on better technique but its hard to stick to it all the time and would just like to hear others thoughts.
Submitted by jpi92109 on Thu, 02/05/2009 - 11:36pm
Well, being a flatwater paddler morphing into an ocean paddler I think it is very important to maintain technique in all circumstances. I am trying to teach myself to maintain the stroke whilst I am being chucked around in the ocean. I am definately improving by sticking with the stroke and learning to use it under duress.
Muscle it as you described can be just an extra effort put into the same stroke.
Much more accomplished paddlers than I can tell you if I am on the right track!
#1 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 12:06am
Watch any close finish and you will have your answer.
R
#2 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 12:08am
I know the key is sticking to technique for sure. Im really just seeing if people stray from that when it feels like you need to or if its just me being weak at sticking to whats right?
I guess when I say "muscle" I mean poor technique. The urge really only strikes for me when the water is rough and its hard to get in a rhythm. Kind of a lame question I know but more just trying to get some good feedback on the topic I guess.
#3 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 12:14am
Good question. my take:
Race is a situation where you have to leave your comfort zone. You hardly have time to think about your technique.
The good paddlers have better ingrained technique, they do not lose it that easily; beginners lose it easily.
Good to try to mind technique always during practice.
But in a race you have to push it unless you are in total control.
#4 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 12:27am
The thing im having the toughest time with at this point is staying relaxed, especially during races and in the surf. Ive been taught that staying relaxed not only conserves energy but allows the good technique to work properly. When I stick to it and the conditions are right for me, I go faster and with less effort. Then you have all the energy to turn up the gas which is when I usually start to lose the form. So I guess no matter what, stick to the technique and the power will come in time?
So much of this is mental and im mental so i thought id have a leg up but it doesnt really work that way!
#5 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 12:33am
It's not an aggressive sport, it's more like chess on the ocean.
R
#6 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 1:57am
You could always add in some extra time on the water after your normal training to concentrate on technique. That way you can naturally get back into doing technique when you've already been pushing it and lost it.
It's okay to get away from it in certain situations as I know I do sometimes, but once you've gotten clear and able to get into rhythm you should get back into technique.
#7 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 2:42am
Yeah the last 5 minutes to the boat ramp where I paddle is completely flat and I always feel my technique the best then as im completely warmed up and not pushing any longer and so for whatever reason it feels the best then. probably smart to take a few laps to get more of this time.
Thanks e7m. BTW, do you get the e7 from the military?
#8 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 2:49am
Sometimes after our regular practice sprints/runs, we put in an extra mile (or two) to work strictly on technique. Most of the time it's just the half mile or so back to where we bring our canoes in that we tend do it.
Yes, the E7 reference is part of having been in the military.
#9 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 3:03am
i was always taught that you have to learn good technique before you should try to muscle it, because then when your technique is decent you can really put in the power effectively.
it's probably harder when going all power and ten adding technique as you go.
E7M that seems like it would be a good thing to do. then no matter how tired you get you would always have that muscle memory to keep your technique.
#10 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 8:46am
It all goes together, right? Like Rambo says, look at the finish of the race. The top guys just plow right on through w/ perfect technique, balance and power. I don't think there's ever a time where you should purposefully disregard proper technique.
#11 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 9:09am
I'm pretty sure it was Buddha that said "He who's technique fails first, loses first." It could have been Confucius, but I'm pretty sure it was Buddha.
#12 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 9:15am
I remember discussing that with Karel Senior.
Especially his skill to paddle without using the rudder and steering effectively with paddle strokes and weight shifts is something that sets Karel apart, according to his father.
But: " without the strength, you can't do it "; Karel still wins because his conditioning is the best.
Junior himself says that for short races up to around an hour and in races that have 'Hawaii Kai' conditions = medium waves, regular, wind from the back, he cannot afford a single mistake and has to paddle highest intensity, high stroke rate, all the time, because other top paddlers are close in their skill and can compensate with their strength.
Top paddlers that have competed against Karel in the Kaiwi channel race say that Karel paddles with much higher intensity then in that clip.
Technique training: is usually done at the beginning of a training session after warm up because your nervous system is not fatigued.
Using the wave energy properly is what most of us lack most, as you posted above.
#13 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 9:28am
@don
“He who’s technique fails first, loses first.”
Wouldn't it be loses last? Then “He who’s technique fails next, loses second to last.” Until finally you get to “He who’s technique fails last, loses not.”
;)
Just to clarify, what is technique? I think it can be confusing to think that "technique" is some type of universal stroke that you must learn to be efficient. Technique should be interpreted as; the ability to perform.
So when you think about it like that, it doesn't take much to realize that performing better at the task at hand out weighs muscling through it.
@jp
I have had the same question; when do I shift focus (in my technique) to use more power then finesse? I think it is when you need additional inertia in the hull. But after a couple strokes I would shift focus again back to finesse, or maintaining hull speed with less drag/energy output.
#14 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 9:42am
Joe, thats the conclusion ive come to because at my level, to paddle with proper technique on every stroke just isnt gonna happen anytime soon.
Thanks for the good input.
#15 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 11:46am
A good paddler once told me that When you need to "muscle" it concentrate on using your quads and abs,"paddle with your stomach" instead of trying to wrestle your way forward using your arms and shoulders and throwing your technique out the window.
My mantra that I keep telling myself in a race is " discipline and efficiency - discipline and efficiency" concentrating on that has really helped me improve lately.
We shouldnt think of power and or technique they ideally they should be one and the same, but its a lot harder to do than to say, thats what keeps us training
#16 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 1:07pm
"Technique training: is usually done at the beginning of a training session after warm up because your nervous system is not fatigued."
I am under the impression that technique training/drills should also be done after your workouts when nervous system is fatigued to maintain efficiency in late race conditions.
#17 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 1:11pm
I oaddle with a group of guys lately so it only makes sense for me to do this work after. As soon as I get in the water im trying to focus on technique but it never feels better and smoother until the last 5 minutes on flat water paddling in. Thats when it all seems to really click since im paying more attention to it and not the moving water. Im able to almost let go with my hands and just move through my back and core and lats.
#18 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 1:15pm
Because the extra drag from the agitated water is gone in the flats.
I like to train technique in the flats; this year I try to train technique in the open ocean - my impression so far: doing both regularly and separately is probably best.
#19 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 3:58pm
Regarding technique, just check out the girls who have finally figured it out and have perfected their stroke. They are now up there at the middle of the pack and beating a lot of the guys and their muscle stroke.
On the other hand, regarding muscle, I lend my canoe to Russ Francis, who hasn't paddled for years (since high school), and man he can keep up with the surfskis. Of course, he's only good for half an hour or so, but every stroke is a beeg one and the canoe really jumps ahead. So go figure?
#20 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 4:28pm
Regarding technique, just check out the girls who have finally figured it out and have perfected their stroke. They are now up there at the middle of the pack and beating a lot of the guys and their muscle stroke.
On the other hand, regarding muscle, I lend my canoe to Russ Francis, who hasn't paddled for years (since high school), and man he can keep up with the surfskis. Of course, he's only good for half an hour or so, but every stroke is a beeg one and the canoe really jumps ahead. So go figure?
#21 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 4:28pm