Surfski futures ???

Seems like a lot of you guys already paddle both .. Any opinions from those that already paddle a ski and / or those that paddle a canoe and are thinking of trying a ski on what is gonna happen down the road ???

Thanks in advance.
aloha,
pog

Submitted by onnopaddle on Fri, 02/06/2009 - 6:52pm



I'm afraid that based on current race statistics, the future is bleak? I do hope it ain't so though?


#1 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 8:46pm


It's been bleak since the oneman was invented by adding 'iako's and an ama to a ski back in the late 80s! Skis won't go away because they are too fun and fast and people like the challenge. The learning curve is steep and long on a ski but a newbie on a oneman can be out having a fun in no time. If you want to forget about huli-ing and get your technique down (center of gravity, surfing the waves, bracing instead of going over) on a one man you gotta get a ski. Why are we talking about this?


#2 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 9:25pm


My guess - the conditions in Hawaii make the learning curve even steeper ?

I think OC 1 is popular in Hawaii because it fits the local conditions generally better than a surfski or a rudderless Tahitian canoe - that has little to do with skill/tradition, imo.

OC 1 does not really have a tradition unless you consider them similar to V 1.


#3 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 11:16am


Not that everybody does it for this reason but outrigger canoe paddling weather 1 man or 6, is perpetuating culture here in Hawaii. Not so much with Surfski.


#4 Fri, 02/06/2009 - 10:08pm


Surfski's are the shizzle. Having both would be ideal, but then you'd need a SUP or two, some surfboards, windboards, and a kite to really be complete!


#5 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 3:38am


I don't know if this is just referring to Surf Ski's in Hawaii, but as far as the rest of the world, Surk Ski'ng is HUGE! A lot of other places are sticking to those over OC-1's.


#6 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 10:35am


I got my first ski probably 25 years ago as a way to augment my paddle board paddling. Got my first OC1 a year ago to add to my ski paddling. Like just mentioned, I dig it because of the cultural influence more than anything. Though it is not as fast as a ski (at least for me), there is something about the OC1 that makes me feel more connected to my surf/paddling roots. As far as SUP, I've gotten so used to the speed on all my other crafts that a SUP is not that intruiging (sp?)

ZUMAPOP


#7 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 10:43am


I paddled racing ski for 5 years and never even looked at the outrigger for the same reason - cultural influence.

However left without a ski for short time due to racing
mishap I borrowed my friend's OC-1 just to be on the water.

I was sold right away and got my own "Pegasus" few weeks later. The seaworthiness and friendliness of the craft amazes me.
You can actually scratch your nose without bracing! Ha!
Small wonder OC-1 outnumber Surfskis 2:1 in every race here in Nor.Cal. It is here to stay.


#8 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 11:19am


OC 1 does not really have a tradition unless you consider them similar to V 1.

goodwaka ?


#9 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 11:57am


What's the big debate? Surfskis are great...onemans are great. I like riding a motorcycle but I own a car and like driving that. They are different yet gets the same thing done. Why does one ocean craft (skis) have to have a "bleak" future? Kanaka Ikaika was founded in the 70s with only surfskis. Onemans are the evolution of those skis...doesn't mean the skis are going extinct. Jeez...so fatalistic.


#10 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 12:05pm


What is happening in America is one thing: OK, so the US state of Hawaii is pretty near connected to American trends, but the genuine OC belongs the the Polynesian cultural complex......
Sure! trash the whole cultural thing as outdated and useless baggage........accept the fact that technology makes more options available and have an opening paddling class for 1 mans, 2mans, 3mans etc.etc.
Looks like an outriggerless surfski is the elite Ocean paddling craft.... no question about it.

When the Hawaiian 6man has evolved into a sit-on with rudder steering, then the argument for cultural affiliation will have some credibility.
Untill then there is still the reality of a Polynesian outrigger culture..... as practiced in Tahiti.


#11 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 1:50pm



#12 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 5:56pm


Did they ever use V 1 in Hawaii ?

Pat, I think people can see that. It may just be that people that have less time to train prefer the OC 1; that does not take away from surfski. If I had one, I'd use it ( try to ).
How long would it take to be able to go around Makapu'u ?


#13 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 2:23pm


Skis are way bigger world wide. Look at South Africa where they get 400-500 skis out for a race. Look at the $$$ in the Dubai race.
That said, who cares? You like paddling OC1, enjoy. You like paddling ski, or V1, enjoy. Like paddling all three, enjoy.
As long as people enjoy paddling OC1, there will be OC1s. If we wanted to only do what is most popular, we'd all be bowling or playing golf.


#14 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 3:26pm


I hate bowling and golf drives me nuts!


#15 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 3:32pm


Have to admit that I have never ever played golf.
Hurling heavy objects to knock down other objects does have a certain primal attraction though.


#16 Sat, 02/07/2009 - 3:38pm


I belive we're breaking away from what the originator of this topic actually wanted to find out: ie, if he made a state of the art surfski, would any of us buy it? Of course he didn't come out and say it like that, but after all, he is a very skilled craftsman in the art of modern composites. Is very knowledgeable and capable of designing and producing a ski that would give the Fenns and Epics (yes Hukis also) a run for the money. However, before investing in a plug and expensive mould, he wants to gauge the market or test the waters first and find out from us if we will be buying a brand new surfski some day in the future. So let's be honest with ourselves and let this fine craftsman know whether we will ever buy a new surfski either today or tomorrow?

My advice is to him is work out some kind of licensing arrangement with the current popular ski makers on making "Made in Hawaii" skis? Better yet, I'd try to license making those popular OC-1's that have a very deep back log?


#17 Sun, 02/08/2009 - 12:41am


When I saw Magnum PI get dropped off in the ocean off of Oahu by his buddy TJ with the helicopter and paddle back to shore, I knew for sure that his boat ( a surfski) was the boat for me.

But I hesitated for many years in buying one of these boats because where I live the water is very cold and life threatening if you swim too long in it.

So , I found contentment in racing my marathon canoe and even paddling it on the ocean close to shore once in a while.

Then after a few years , I heard about these new composite one man outrigger canoes being made in Hawaii and thought , thats it !!! these are the perfect boat for paddling on the ocean in either cold or warm water. Almost no learning curve , reasonably fast and light weight and easy to remount after a huli and very Hawaiian which in its self is very cool.

So , I did some homework and decided to buy my first one man outrigger canoe which turned out to be a Stingray from Outrigger Connection.

When my daughter wanted a sprint kayak, I decided its` time to get on one of those , take the time to get past the learning curve of paddling a tippy boat . The transition to a surfski was pretty easy after getting our ballance on the kayak.

Its a lot of fun to have the option of paddling either type of boat. Try them both but, as Pat Dolan said above, the big competition is on skis . If you are looking to race against the best , you have to be on a ski .......


#18 Sun, 02/08/2009 - 5:52am


In response to the original question:

Yes, I would love to add V1 and surfski to my paddling activities, once I become more solid/accomplished on OC1. A lot of wise people have told me that paddling surfski is a blast and improves balance, boat handling, and technique. And, I'd like to be out on the water in as many great craft as I can!

Yes, each boat you add costs money, but really, if you amortize the cost of a boat over all the hours of joy you get, over all of the years you'll have that boat for, each paddling session is really pretty affordable. In other words, it's not a matter of whether it is worth it to me, only whether I can find the money.

I could definitely see adding a surfski to the quiver after I've paddled OC1 for 3 or 4 years.


#19 Sun, 02/08/2009 - 4:23pm


On the flat most of our group paddle K1's. Managed to lure them into the outriggers as well and they love it.

Paddling the Outlaw Victorian Ocean Racing Series we determined very early on that we needed the ski paddlers to survive and fund our racing. OC1 paddling is in its infancy in Victoria but is growing steadily. Ski paddling on Epics, Fenns etc is well established in the Northenn states of Australia with money races. They have no series in Victoria so found our Outlaw series very attractive. I think they will grow in leaps and bounds in Victoria and run their own big races, hopefully they will let us come for the ride. Ski and Outrigger paddlers are two different breeds over here but quite a few do crossover.


#20 Sun, 02/08/2009 - 5:02pm


omnopaddle: with experience in the same field of skills and technology as yourself, i don't think that expense and effort in tooling for a sski would be worthwhile.....unless of course you have money to spare and a bunch of workers on low wages twiddling their thumbs.

Performance leaps by design innovation are far too limited by paddler ability...... sski shape has pretty much been refined and nearly perfected for the function, while mass production is crapping them out at a great rate.........imo


#21 Sun, 02/08/2009 - 5:06pm


But Goodwaka, there will always be people who want them made local and customized and this is the area i think Onopaddle is heading.

As far as mass production goes Epic and Fenn seem to have the bulk of the market share in ocean racing skis.

Cheers Rambo


#22 Sun, 02/08/2009 - 8:08pm


Errg. No time to type right now. You guys are all right ... still on honeydo list and messing with my boy. Will be back.

aloha,
pog

P.S. Koacanoe pretty much pegged me with his reply.


#23 Sun, 02/08/2009 - 8:24pm


Rambo: the hours and hours of fairing and sanding that custom building requires, just robs time on the water for paddling.

I don't think that much profit can be made from that sort of work........the reason why the tedious stuff is being done in China.


#24 Sun, 02/08/2009 - 11:04pm


A surf ski is much simpler than an Oc1 to manufacture. No Ama or iako receivers, just a two piece mold with rudder cables the only internal work and possibly a strongback if required. By custom i mean fitting to the paddler not build a new boat from scratch for a customer.

R


#25 Mon, 02/09/2009 - 12:44am


From a manufacturing point of veiw, the only difference between a sski and an oc1 is the insertion of 2 pieces of tubing laminated into the deck -- the iako receivers.

OK, then there is the ama as well and the two bent ally tubes with nibsprings.

This would be a standard pop out product, so only the foam seat is maybe custom made.


#26 Mon, 02/09/2009 - 9:08am


Hey! maybe you are onto something Rambo.......... the butt hollow could be custom shaped.

Get the customer to sit in some kind of chair and pull a mould from his butt - something like your dentist may do, but for teeth.


#27 Mon, 02/09/2009 - 9:37am


a surfski is way different than a oneman design
for all who thinks its the same, take ur ama off and try paddle around in surf with a kayak paddle. see what happens


#28 Mon, 02/09/2009 - 10:08am


Sure! a surfski has been designed for speed in the bumps more specifically than to provide comfortable seating and stability.


#29 Mon, 02/09/2009 - 10:42am


eckhart said:
"How long would it take to be able to go around Makapu’u ?"

I have no idea if my experience is typical or not, but I'll give you the answer for me... I have been paddling surfski for about 3 yrs. I started on an old Hayden and basically used it as cross-training for paddling the OC-6. Last year I bit the bullet and bought a Fenn Mako6 and have begun training more to enter the races. Yesterday was my first time around Makapu‘u... even though it wasn't a big day, it was still challenging for me and I huli'd 2x near Hanauma Bay. I (barely) achieved my goal of not being the last to finish the race.


#30 Mon, 02/09/2009 - 10:56am


The same thing would happen using a conventional spec. ski, unless you're a skilled white water paddler like Karel Sr., then it would not make any difference, for he can paddle just as well on the off-side as well as on the on-side. The situation would be different with today's narrower oc-1's without ama. Yes, I saw a video of someone paddling an oc-1 without ama, but that was in flat water.

Regarding surfskis as oc-1's, the most recent production examples would be Twogood's Mako (original Fenn) converted to a one-man, and the Bixler/Tresnak Mantra converted into a surfski (Matrix).


#31 Mon, 02/09/2009 - 11:01am


Rachel - thanks.


#32 Mon, 02/09/2009 - 1:26pm


Thanks again everyone for the input ...

I'm just not wired to work or even paddle on someone elses*** stuff. So I pour my lungs and soul into a new design. The 'hard part' is done ... Making molds is not too bad. Local made boats with world class R&D & consistant builds for a fair price would be the outcome. Just itching to make something new thats all and wanted to know what you guys think aboout skis. Not enough hours in the day to tinker on everything.

*** Exception would be to help one Samoan guy down the road : )

Aloha,
pog


#33 Wed, 02/11/2009 - 12:05am


Thanks again everyone for the input ...

I'm just not wired to work or even paddle on someone elses*** stuff. So I pour my lungs and soul into a new design. The 'hard part' is done ... Making molds is not too bad. Local made boats with world class R&D & consistant builds for a fair price would be the outcome. Just itching to make something new thats all and wanted to know what you guys think aboout skis. Not enough hours in the day to tinker on everything.

*** Exception would be to help one Samoan guy down the road : )

Aloha,
pog


#34 Wed, 02/11/2009 - 12:09am


Not sure what happend to the body of above try again ...

I'm just not wired to work or even paddle on someone elses*** stuff. So I pour my lungs and soul into a new design. The 'hard part' is done ... Making molds is not too bad. Local made boats with world class R&D & consistant builds for a fair price would be the outcome. Just itching to make something new thats all and wanted to know what you guys think aboout skis. Not enough hours in the day to tinker on everything.

*** Exception would be to help one Samoan guy down the road : )

Aloha,
pog


#35 Wed, 02/11/2009 - 12:10am


Thanks again everyone for the input ...

I'm just not wired to work or even paddle on someone elses*** stuff. So I pour my lungs and soul into a new design. The 'hard part' is done ... Making molds is not too bad. Local made boats with world class R&D & consistant builds for a fair price would be the outcome. Just itching to make something new thats all and wanted to know what you guys think aboout skis. Not enough hours in the day to tinker on everything.
*** Exception would be to help one Samoan guy down the road : )
Aloha,
pog


#36 Wed, 02/11/2009 - 12:25am


NOt trying to mess with ya ... swear.

Thanks again everyone for the input ...
I'm just not wired to work or even paddle on someone elses*** stuff. So I pour my lungs and soul into a new design. The 'hard part' is done ... Making molds is not too bad. Local made boats with world class R&D & consistant builds for a fair price would be the outcome. Just itching to make something new thats all and wanted to know what you guys think aboout skis. Not enough hours in the day to tinker on everything.
*** Exception would be to help one Samoan guy down the road : )
Aloha,
pog

I'm just not wired to work or even paddle on someone elses*** stuff. So I pour my lungs ans soul into a new design
The 'hard part' is done ... Making molds is not too bad. local made boats with world class R&D & consistant builds for a fair price would be the outcome. Just itching to make something new thats all and wanted to know what you guys think about skis. Not enough hours in the day to tinker on everything.
*** Exception would be to help one Samoan guy down the road : )

Aloha,
pog


#37 Wed, 02/11/2009 - 12:32am


Trying to put this down again.

I'm just not wired to work on someone elses stuff***
So I pour my lungs and sould into a new design for myself. The 'hard' part is done. Making molds not too bad. Local made boats with world class R and D and consistant builds for a fair price would be the outcome. Just itching to make something new thats all and wanted to know what you guys think about skis. Not enough hours in the day to tinker on everything.
*** Exception would be to help one Samoan guy down the road : )

Aloha,
pog


#38 Thu, 02/12/2009 - 4:20pm


Apologies for all the redundant posts ... I think I figured out the problem on this one.

Just not wired to work on someone elses stuff. ***

So I pour my lungs and soul into a new design. The 'hard' part is done. Making molds is not that bad.
Local made boats with world class R&D with consistant builds for a fair price would be the outcome. Just itching to make something new is all and wanted to know what you guys think of skis. Not enough time to tinker on everything.

*** Exception would be to help one Samoan guy down the road : )

Aloha,
pog


#39 Thu, 02/12/2009 - 4:27pm


If it pushes your button Pog .. do it .... stuff what everyone else thinks.

Rambo


#40 Thu, 02/12/2009 - 7:28pm


Well...........what I would really like to see is a fast, stable and comfortable double (tandem) ski that's made in Hawaii for Hawaii waters. To my knowledge, none were ever produced in Hawaii, since Twogoods Condor. Yes, Dale Adams has a mold that he loans out to people who have the talent to make their own family double ski (like Stu G. did a few years back). But none other than the Condor were commecially available. Afa probably still has a Condor stored somewhere in his nursery, which he and his wife would beat everybody with, and which is probably the only double ski on the Big Island? So go double ski? I might be in the market for one?


#41 Thu, 02/12/2009 - 9:29pm


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