I paddled a Fuze today and was totally surprised. Going out was into the wind, against the swell, and against a rising tide. So on the way back had all 3 in my favor. That thing is amazing. I might venture so far as to say better than my Zephyr - might. Curious to hear feedback from guys on Oahu doing downhill runs with a nice and light model made in Hawaii. The one I paddled was made in China and is pretty heavy. Going up wind it felt like a pig but when I turned around I never would have imagined that it would handle the bumps so well. Im 5'9, 155 and I know my Zephyr is a bit big for me but its lighter than the Fuze I paddled so I know its not the weight but the hull design and maybe even the shorter length that made the difference. Thanks for any response.
Submitted by jpi92109 on Wed, 03/04/2009 - 12:53am
My God man !!!! You`ve let my secret out !!!!
Fuze has been my secret weapon for years and now everyone knows .
#1 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 3:47am
Not sure if very many OC riders read this website so I`ll take a minute here to give you some more of my experiences with the Fuze vs. Zephyr. I have many hours on both boats .
At my weight of 175 lbs and around 50 hours on the Zephyr , I have gone back to my Fuze as the boat of choice for me.
It
s very true that Fuze at 204" fits between short chop better than Zephyr at 21`6". You want to remember that the OC boats are sized to fit a variety of paddler weights. With the addition of the Osprey ( smaller than Fuze) to the line up , OC has pretty much every paddler covered .#2 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 7:28am
give me a free boat and i will write an unbiased review for you.
#3 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 7:46am
I had a Karel built Fuze for 3 years or so. I am 5'10" / 175 and the boat was great. For me, it worked better than the Fusion, and when I tried the Zephyr, I still liked the Fuze better. It just felt faster (In the Zephyr's defense, my Fuze was Karel built, double carbon, and pretty light. The Zephyr I demoed felt pretty heavy in comparison). Karel's workmanship is second to none. I loved my Fuze. Then I tried a Pueo...
#4 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 7:55am
axlegrease,
fuze is always totally, 100% unbiased.
#5 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 7:59am
Jibofo, I 100% agree with you 100% of the time that fuze is totally 100% unbiased. Totally.
#6 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 8:04am
Send me a Pueo and I`ll give an unbiased opinion of that boat too .
#7 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 8:11am
Yeah no offense fuze but in all of your photos the water is so flat that it looks like your trying to catch ripples.
Hans - So your saying that in a downhill run, 2, 3, 4 ft swells, that your pueo handles the swells better? You can top waves better and surf better on the pueo than on a fuze?? I understand upwind, side wind, flats, all that but I have a hard time believing its better in 2 -4 ft. But if you say so. Thanks for the input.
Fuze - You said that you would take a minute to share some of your experiences on the Fuze and Zephyr but merely plugged the boats, not forgetting to mention the new osprey of course. Was there really a technical comparison you just forgot to leave or do you just not know about the canoes and just scream OC because your the rep??
#8 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 8:16am
jp,
First off, I am by no means a front of the pack paddler, especially downwind. If I can finish in the middle of my age group, I either had a great race, or the faster guys either didn't show up or were all in the overall 1, 2, 3... That said, my enthusiasm for the Pueo is "all around". Up, side, and down (not upside down...) wind all being good. For me, the Fuze is a better surfer once you get it on the wave, but it's harder to get it on the wave, if that makes sense. Once you are surfing, it just keeps going without any effort (must be the chines ;-D). For me, the Pueo is much easier to get on a wave, but takes more effort to keep it there. In the long run that is faster for me, as I spent more energy missing waves on the Fuze than I spend staying on waves with my Pueo. If I was better at catching the waves in the first place, I would likely have a different opinion, but I'm not... This feedback is just based on how the boats "feel" to me. Once on the wave, I'll take the Fuze, but I'm not real good at getting there. Also, I like to launch and recover at the same spot... Much more time spent going up and side wind to get set up for my downwind run home. And the Pueo is no sloch in the surf, especially when under a paddler with more skill than me... Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth (2 cents?).
#9 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 8:54am
Right on Hans! Thank you. That's exactly what I was looking for. An unbiased comparison like that. Thanks
#10 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 9:32am
I'm still looking for that free fuze... unbiased and fully informed opinions await!
#11 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 10:04am
hanshead,
Your real world observations of chine effect are pretty close to right on . When chine effect turns on your boat displaces water more efficiently than an unchined boat at the same speed . This is why the unchined boat wants to slow more than a chined boat at higher speeds.
The people over at Think kayaks are coming out with a new surfski this spring . Its called the UNO , the chines on this boat are way more subtle than the ones on the Think Legend , they look alot like the chines on the oc canoes ..
The company is saying , of course , that the new boat is VERY fast. We shall see because almost no one has riden one yet.
To get back to what I was saying about the differences between Fuze and Zephyr ; the size is the biggest difference between the two . It will depend on the paddlers weight to determine which boat is better for them .
I think the optimun paddler weight for a Zephyr would be between 180 and 210 lbs .
Fusion has more volume than Zephyr and can handle paddlers heavier than 210.
Of course you want to keep in mind that theres lots of overlap in the recomended paddler weight range for each boat.
Mrs. Fuzerider weighs in at around 120 lbs and gets good results with Fuze . I
m 175 and feel that Im near the top of the weight range for the boat but, get glide as good as I get on Zephyr . I`m thinking Fuze will not be enough boat for paddlers much over 180.Unless the makers of sprint kayaks don`t know what they are doing , no one boat that only comes in one size can cover the various weight of paddlers.
Nelo has something like 4 or 5 boats in one model to cover paddler weight differences and enable racers to get the glide neccessary to be succesful.
Check out the pics to see the difference in the chine shapes between the Legend and UNO... ><(((">
#12 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 12:58pm
From this comment I though Fuze was growing a sense of humor but then I realized he was dead serious.
"Your real world observations of chine effect are pretty close to right on . When chine effect turns on your boat displaces water more efficiently than an unchined boat at the same speed . This is why the unchined boat wants to slow more than a chined boat at higher speeds."
If chines was a woman Fuze would be having a major affair.
#13 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 11:22am
Obviously the most important thing is to "TURN ON YOUR CHINES." The new kick-start feature is a huge improvement over the old pull-start chine enabler.
BTW (and unrelated) - You know what displaces a lot of water? Being really fat.
#14 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 11:44am
Maybe thats why I wasn't very pleased when I paddled a Fuze once, I forgot to turn on the chine effect.
#15 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 12:34pm
nb1376, that is the most common mistake with first time fuze riders. If they don't turn on the chine effect it will feel like you're paddling pudding.
The biggest difference I see between the 2 kayaks is that one is completely white and the other is 2 toned orange and gray. Radical!
#16 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 2:01pm
so it would seem from OC and Think Kayaks that the mellower the chines, the better they work.
legend with hard chines = OK
UNO with softer chines = BETTER
Stingray with hard chines = DOODOO
Zephyr/Fuze with small soft chines = BETTER
using these two examples one could reason these water craft are "evolving" towards a hull which is completely round.
#17 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 2:22pm
Astute observation there, poop. The biggest difference I can add is that one has a shadow they other doesn't.
Significant ?
Can you find your own difference?
#18 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 2:27pm
I heard one of top guys in Hawaii switched from Zephyr to Pueo and moved up like 8 notches, even though it was his first time ever on a Pueo, and the races were only a few days apart. Just sayin'...
#19 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 3:11pm
hey hey whats wrong with a stingray? Yeah I'm slow on it but it probably cause I haven't paddle much at all the past year or so. Sheesh, you don't have to get personal about it.
#20 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 7:35pm
Nice one painteur. Another difference between the 2 kayaks is that one is pictured on sand and the other is pictured on grass.
#21 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 7:36pm
Well I better get a Pueo before Saturday so I can move up 8 places. But on Oahu everyone already has a Pueo so are its 8 place powers no good there anymore??
#22 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 8:47pm
"I heard one of top guys in Hawaii switched from Zephyr to Pueo and moved up like 8 notches, even though it was his first time ever on a Pueo"
well we ALL know that it is the canoe NOT the engine that matters!
or could it be the fact that maybe he/she was actually training a lot more - No! Never I hear you say ...
#23 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 9:31pm
There are alot of guys on Pueos whoa re doing REALLY well this year but when I look back at years past they didnt do quite as many races before. I wonder if anyone is ever going to attribute the success thus far of some of these guys to some really good, consistent training. I mean a large group of above average paddlers just paddled around 70 miles last weekend but im sure it wasnt for training but to get used to these new awesome canoes?
#24 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 9:52pm
i think what james might have been trying to say is that the paddler he's talking about, whoever it is. switched from one week to the next in the same season. so it is doubtful that training came into account in the 6 or 7 days between races. see the part where jim says the races "were a few days apart"
i know one thing, i'm slow no matter what boat i paddle. so i never bother switching canoes.
#25 Wed, 03/04/2009 - 11:05pm
I
m not only slow , Im old too , but extremely handsome , so at least I got that going for me .....#26 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 2:24am
Yeah, I got that part about the race only being a few days apart. I think I finished 16th overall in my last race. In that case ill need to oder 2 by this Saturday and just consider me the victor!! I mean there is no way that any other variables could attribute to the change in finish position, right? I just think its funny how people on here who used to preach about the motor being the most important thing find the most subtle ways to say the exact opposite now a days.
Ill stick to training.
#27 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 3:02am
Yes, the motor is most important, but the boat is also important. For a guy your size jp, you could probably find a better boat. No need to get all defensive, but for a 155 lb. person, Zephyr is not the optimum boat. That's just my opinion, of course, but don't you ever wonder why Jr. is the only guy in earth who can make that boat win races? No joke, at your weight, you'd instantly be ten seconds per mile faster on a Pueo or Hurricane.
#28 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 4:42am
Jim - Ive always said that I know the Zephyr is a bit big for me. Truth is I bought it 2nd hand in a desperate move to move up from a Hypr canoe! I dont think anyone can deny that I succeeded. The reason I like the canoe so much is for the surf. Im not one of the guys who will buy a boat so I can be 10 seconds faster per mile but if it can connect waves like a Zephyr or a Scorpius then ill be interested and from what ive heard that isnt the Pueo and no way is that a Hurricane. I think the best thing about the Pueo at this point is that its prompted all of the other builders to react. OC is coming out with the Osprey and Kai is starting to work on something around the same class so in general guys around my size are gonna have some great choices fairly soon. Lets just hope they arent all over $4000.
Everyone always sais that Jr wins because of hardwork and natural talent. Just wondering when anyone will say the same thing about all the great paddlers who are having a big year so far on Pueos because they are obviously training their asses off - not because of a boat.
#29 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 5:46am
To sum it up -
If you are really big and ONLY paddle downwind with gigantic swells and average 14 mph using Chine effect, consider an OC canoe made only in Hawaii, but not in China.
If you're one of those suckers that must occasionally paddle upwind, crosswind, in triangular courses, or in waves smaller than twelve feet, consider Pueo or other chineless watercraft.
I think I got it.
#30 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 7:00am
e02060, you forgot one thing in your summary.
if you paddle anywhere on the north american continent, use a chineless boat for reduced drag at normal paddling speeds. unless of course you are on the north east coast of the united states. there the rules of physics do not apply.
#31 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 7:47am
e02060, nice summary. It all makes sense now.
Maybe the chine effect is tied in with the Coriolis Effect where the Coriolis effect increases the farther you get from the equator.
#32 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 9:16am
That or they just slide better on the ice where fuze is paddling...
#33 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 9:21am
You know, this is perhaps one of the most interesting topics, for I've learned a lot from reading all of the comments. A few weeks back, I spotted a white vaa at the HK boatramp and saw that the chine extended all the way back to the tail, so I guessed its purpose was to keep the canoe tracking straight?
This was a way different hull than most ruddered canoes. And doesn't seem to affect its surfing ability, as shown in the videos, at all. I was always under the opinion that a flat planing hull was best in the surf and bumps. So I always preferred boats that had a hard sharp chine from the bow to the footwells, and flat all the way back like the old Aussie made Spectrum surfski, which could surf very well on the bumps and the shorebreak, yet be very fast in the flat for a short 19 ft. boat.
#34 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 9:31am
poops,
Coriolis Effect also changes whether you're north or south of the equator, counter clockwise to clockwise. Does that mean that oc's south of the equator have to have the ama on the right.
#35 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 10:16am
Oh doesnt this just suck. I have to completely eat my words now. I just found out from my partner for the Kaiwi Relay that we will be paddling a canoe named after and Owl. Go ahead, let me have it.
#36 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 10:43am
jpi, maybe you'll move up 8 places.
Jibofo, yah, either that or they'll have to paddle backwards.
#37 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 1:42pm
jpi92109. You'll never be the same after you have soared with the owl.
#38 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 2:23pm
I heard a guy talking today who has just gotten one. The way he described it in the surf sounded alot like a Zephyr. Sounds like a point and shoot boat for sure. Just have to have it in the right spot. he said as long as you have it in the right place it just wants to jump over the wave in front of you to the next one. The exact same way I describe my canoe. He also said that you can get a little messed up if you arent lined up just right, which happens to me a fair amount since im no veteran. Either way it made me feel better about paddling one.
#39 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 5:58pm
.
#40 Fri, 03/02/2012 - 10:03am
wow, you guys really seem to love the pueo. did anyone ever stop to think once that it might just be the paddler in the boat? not necessarily the boat itself?
just a thought
#41 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 8:29pm
That kind of thinking is so last year.
#42 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 8:41pm
speaking of unbiased opinions, have any of you ever gone over to check out the www.kaiwaa.com site?
The only canoes that are mentioned on there are Kai Wa'a canoes! Who would have thought.
Even try and see if you can find something other than OC canoes on the www.outriggerconnection.com web site - Nope, not one!
Let's not even mention the Hypr canoes web site - would you believe it, nothing but Hypr canoes!
just goes to show ...
#43 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 9:10pm
and you can see pueos at
http://kamanucomposites.com
your point being? (and try explaining fuzerider)
#44 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 9:29pm
the amazing thing is that all these reviews about Kamanu's boat are from people who have bought the boat. not people who work at Kamanu. the guys at Kamanu actually have a standing rule that their factory workers are not allowed to advertise their boats on ocpaddler.
paddlers must just really like the boat.
go figure...
as far as seeing other boats on ocp, i'd imagine anyone is allowed to buy advertising space.
#45 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 9:45pm
Almost everyone... Hypr is not allowed.
#46 Thu, 03/05/2009 - 10:47pm
One thing you won`t find on the www.outriggerconnection.com website is ANY chineless canoes.
Because friends don`t let friends go chineless........
#47 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 4:58am
That Kamanu rule has really cut down on Goto remarks, which is regretful. Damn professional bastards.
#48 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 6:13am
e02060,
That is a whole new thread. The what would Goto say thread. "WWGS" not quite the WWJD. We can all try to channel the thoughts of Goto and then get Personal Messages of approval from Goto. The person who gets the most in one month moves up to Captain in the OCPM.
My try:
"What would happen if you put onit boat polish on your new "C$ock" canoe and as you were driving to the Koa Nui race your truck breaks down near club Rockza and all of a sudden this song is playing on the radio. Once you got your truck fixed, would it help you win the race? Would your canoe be stiffer and faster?
http://onitpro.com/
#49 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 6:58am
oh no censorship. ya it would, make me faster, I meant. 8 places faster. Get down on it
#50 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 7:05am
I received my new Pueo last weekend, and I have to say... it's more manueverable, more responsive, more comfortable, way easier to surf, just as fast in the flats as my Hurricane, and even looks sexy as hell on my truck.
My Pueo arrived in pristine condition from Kamanu Composites, earlier than promised; those guys rock!
I can't believe how this canoe carries speed downwind. I'm still on the "learning curve" that you get with any new boat, so I'm really excited to see how much better performance I can get once I actually learn how to paddle this wonderful new toy. Mahalo Kamanu Composites!
Guess I'm going to have to change my avatar now!
#51 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 7:30am
I'm sure Fuzie owns this shirt.
#52 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 9:05am
"paddlers must just really like the boat". Not to comment on the canoe or any other, but lets face it, if someone has just spent $4,000 on a new canoe, bicycle, or whatever toy, there's a strong probability of a positive review.
#53 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 9:58am
If I spent $4 large on a toy and tought it was junk, I would be the first to send out the warning to others. I have been a dedicated Hurricane rider and bought 5 of them over the years, and it's still a great canoe. However, I really do like the Pueo better than my Hurricane and feel it was worth the wait and the price. A lower price wouldn't have changed my review any, but my bank account would be happier.
Economic principles still apply today and a high price doesn't stimulate demand, especially during a recessionary period. If you look at the number of Hurricane riders that are now on Pueo's, I'm not the only one that thinks the Pueo is a superior ride.
#54 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 11:30am
Don, i know you are as honest as the day is long, so i take your review as being fair dinkum. Up till now i wasn't buying the hype and i guess you weren't either till you tried it for yourself.
Donald , i trust you to hold my new born child, so my interest in the Pueo just went up a few notches. Looking forward to a future update from you once you become more acquainted.
What will Hurricane come up with now to counter?
Cheers Rambo
#55 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 11:46am
With the possible exception of everyone's favorite canoe to bash (Hypr) none of the current crop of canoes can be called junk. That said, its human nature that when you have shelled out serious hard earned bucks, its going to influence your feeling about your purchase to some degree.
I know that every time I spend more than $5 I go, "Damn, that's the best thing since sliced bread".
#56 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 11:50am
err sorry jibofo.. but that's just you, maybe others.. not everyone.
i will echo the thought that if I bought a $4000 turd, I'm not going to gloss it with happy thoughts and make sure no one else does.
#57 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:11pm
it is quite funny how skeptical people are. there are demo's for any manufacturer available. they are free, that way you won't get the $4,000 effect Jibofo talks about.
i heard of two guys who demoed two brands of boat at the same time. they went to each manufacturer and got the demos on the same day. the two guys then went out and traded boats throughout their paddle. to me, that sounds like the best way to evaluate two boats. you have an instant comparison, and eliminate many of the variables of demoing two different boats on two different days.
#58 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:19pm
axel, you're right. If I went out and bought a $4000 turd I probably would keep that to myself cause I wouldn't want anyone to know what a moron I was.
#59 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:22pm
well heck pa', ah'm still waitin' for that free fuze
#60 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:24pm
There are exceptions to every "rule", but "perceived value", and "peer pressure" have an effect to a degree of one's perception of something. Its not everything but it definitely plays a part. If you honestly think that it has no effect, I'd suggest taking an intro psych course or a course on the dynamics of selling.
#61 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 12:24pm
+1 on jc9 0's comment... If you buy a $4000 toy based on someone else's opinion or race results, you deserve a turd... Demo, demo, demo.
#62 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 1:09pm
I know that the first time I sit on a Pueo it will feel like the greatest thing since sliced bread. Not to say that it isnt. This is part of the reason im staying off one. Every canoe I have paddled has pretty much felt the same way the first time I tried it.. Even my Hypr's - I was new. My point is that I think it take several rides, maybe a dozen or so, in different conditions to know if a canoe is right for purchase. My mind tends to make me think that everything is roses the first time I paddle something. When im not having a good day, maybe its cloudy, and I didnt eat right so my energy isnt where it should be I feel like im paddling the worst canoe ever built. My mind tends to amplify it.
#63 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 2:22pm
People buy on emotion .... you just need to find something that satisfies the need to purchase .... and you will.
Piss-weak creatures aren't we?
Rambo
#64 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 3:17pm
you know what they say whatever floats your boat.
the canoe is never as nice a those first few rides. and that is right it takes a dozen rides to get a feel. but honestly they are all pretty nice.
#65 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 5:39pm
Eh!! I thought this thread was supposed to be about the Fuze? Anyway, as my football coach use to tell: "Boy! If the shoe fits, wear it." So more better keep your old canoe and save your money for pay for the kids tuition, after all they when raise it $500 for next year.
Yeah! And when I first hear about the Pueo and saw it for the first time, I thought wow! That's pretty cool of them for make one canoe for go paddle night time. Must get special radar for avoiding the Cabbage Patch?
#66 Fri, 03/06/2009 - 9:36pm