Would it be possible to create a union that would require escort drivers to join if they wanted to escort any channel crossing. Possibly make them watch a short video about safety so they're not running paddlers over or smoking another paddlers out with their diesel fumes. I think that the biggest benefit would be to keep them from price gouging which is exactly what they're gonna try and do this year since the price of gas has come down. more then 600 for an escort is a crime this year!
Submitted by kj on Sun, 03/15/2009 - 5:21pm
unionize escort drivers for a handful of races? Now that's an expensive can of worms to open. On the other hand requiring safety classes/certification shouldn't even be an issue. Supply and demand is one factor. Skill and experience another. You usually get what you pay for and if you got gouged word gets out really fast. It's not like it's a profession where you escort every weekend for some event. I've yet to hear of one case of a paddler being run over by any escort boat. Fumes? pick a better line or start lobbying state officials to go greener and subsidize diesel-electric motors. Never heard of any escort boat intentionally putting themselves into a position with the intention to fumigate a competitor. 2-3 guys on the escort for say 20 hours round trip including prep and cleanup after, maybe 40 hours (for2 only) all together. Cost of fuel. Wear and tear., maybe $250. Leaves $350. Split between all is$ 8.75/hour. Damn gougers, off with their heads. They're getting rich.
#1 Sun, 03/15/2009 - 6:03pm
Did you seriously suggest a union for escort boat drivers??
Since hypothetically unions have ties to the mafia, does that mean that poops and the rest of the guys are gonna be breaking escort boat drivers legs when they dont want to pay their dues??
#2 Sun, 03/15/2009 - 10:35pm
If I had a boat, I wouldn't escort anybody. The risk and liability is just too great.
#3 Sun, 03/15/2009 - 10:19pm
And when a paddler sues an escort boat captain, what then?
#4 Sun, 03/15/2009 - 11:07pm
Looks like he wont be paddling in anymore solo's since he wont be able to get another Captain.
#5 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 12:07am
If I'm not mistaken, there is already a loose knit "Hui" of escort boat captains that encourage race promoters to use only them. The claim is that these captains are experienced, which to me, is good. On the other side, cost of these escort boats are high...blah,blah,blah,yada,yada,yada...
#6 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 8:30am
Pay for what you get!
#7 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 8:47am
Instead of a "union", I would suggest a "certification" that would be obtained from a particular race oragnizer. Maybe an hour-long class on the do's and don'ts of escorting, after which you get a certificate that says you are a "(insert race-series here) - certified" escort driver. The # and distance of previous races escorted could also be listed.
People could still hire non-certified escorts as they choose, but this would give extra information if they were "certified".
The certification would have to be written so that liability is not assumed by the race organizers though...
Just a thought...
#8 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 12:07pm
its up to the paddler to sit down with the escort boat driver and lay out any rules or plans that the paddler and driver want to adhere to.
How many meetings do you sit through in a week at work? we do one a month maybe and that's tedious enough (sorry boss if your reading) - the thought of having to go to another certification or meeting on top of what is already done sounds awesome, I'm so in. I really want to try and get an escort driver to sit through the cert process too, i bet they'd be psyched as well, not to mention organizing a day/days/whatever that some sort of organization can come in and conduct said certification.
I see where your going grouvb4 and kj, i guess if you create the curriculum you could make an online self test certification for the drivers to do. . .
#9 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 12:42pm
toa moana,
As I've long been a fan of your Bob Ross photo, it pains me to read what I gather is sarcasm in your second paragraph.
Keep in mind that I am neither an escort driver nor a race organizer, so these are just suggestions under the category of "just trying to help".
To answer your question, I attend about 10 meetings a week. I would gladly trade meeting schedules with you...
The potential/proposed certification would be 1 hour-long session per year and would not be mandatory to escort the actual race.
Although it wouldn't be my first choice, I think even an online certification would have value, in that it would raise visibility on the issues mentioned by kj in the original thread posting.
I was actually just trying to pitch in and suggest the wording "certification" rather than "union", which on this thread seemed to draw attention away from the original question and to the legal (and allegedly illegal) nature of Unions.
#10 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 1:20pm
yes, there was a hint of sarcasm to my second paragraph. I'm also pleased to hear that you like my Bob Ross photo.
Until any action or progress is made toward the development of the curriculum and the adoption of it into our paddling community, we all fall under the "just trying to help" category.
I have no intention of berating/ belittling you or the concept, just being realistic. Another certification to tack onto CPR, EMT, 100 ton masters, etc etc . . . .
#11 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 1:38pm
Realism is a good thing... (so says Bob Ross)
#12 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 1:52pm
I heard that when you find a great women you never let her go...
Well... same goes to escort boat drivers. You quickly see in local races that teams consistently have the same driver. Even with the Big races like the Hoe out of state or island teams that return every year will try to get the same driver.
In California, Dana OCC holds a distance race every year and we find escort drivers for any team in need of one. We ask that teams that can provide one for themselves do so, but we will find close to 40 escort boats every year.
We keep an ongoing list of anyone who has ever escorted for us. So we just call them up and see if they can drive for the race. If we have problems with them then we don't call them back. If we don't have enough then we go out on foot and ask boat owners around the harbor.
I have had my driver locked up since last august the same guy that has escorted me for the past two years for the solo. I figure one of these days Ill actually get to ride on the boat instead of just look at it from my canoe.
I found my driver by calling the race officials. try, maybe they have some on notice.
#13 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 5:35pm
I agree with Painteur. $600-$900 is a pretty good deal once you work in everything. We paid $1000 for Molokai Hoe, but the dude probably burned $300 in gas, had two crew members, and spent two days with us. I doubt the crew walked away with more than $150 each (for two days of work) and maybe the owner/captain walked with $400 at best.
It's a big risk for them to escort for a lot of reasons, and I think they earn every bit of it.
#14 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 6:07pm
Cost is irrelevant to escort experience and dependability. Ask anyone whose escort showed up late or not at all. Ask anyone whose escort Captain was uncertain about a GPS, current and all those good things that help you focus on the task at hand. Top paddlers have top escorts. Developing that relationship is "priceless" and something that won't happen over night. Trying to regulate or liscense escorts, when you are basically dealing with the Eric Levora's, Bob Rocheleau's, Johnny Puakea's or Hanalei Rosa's of the world ain't going to happen.
#15 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 7:14pm
Most escort boat captains have much, much more "water" experience than the paddlers that are guests on their boats.
In fact, there are paddlers who have never been on a boat until their first long distance race.
While certifications are a nice thing to hang on one's wall, it won't buy the liability insurance which should be afforded to them so they don't risk everything they worked so hard for.
Take the monkey off of the boat captain's back, those who know understand that these guys are not doing it for the money no matter what some people think. Their doing it because they are as much a part of the race as those in the canoe.
With as many people who are drawn to long distance Hawaiian outrigger canoe paddling, there is bound to be an opportunist amongst us who will sue for some fast cash.
It seems that every other component in the race is insured except for the boat captains who have the most to lose!
Auwe.
They should form their own association so their interests are protected too.
Thoughts?
#16 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 10:24pm
Become a boat captain and start your own club.
Buy your boat captain his own insurance policy. Im sure he will love you for it. Im guessing something like that will cost more than the fee for the captain.
How about an insurance policy against the sharks and whales also? Somebody has to protect them too!
#17 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 10:33pm
How does obtaining an insurance policy against sharks and whales protect them?
#18 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 10:39pm
From when they get sued of course!
#19 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 11:13pm
Oh! Okay, got it.
#20 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 11:31pm
jpi92109-
Please print your previous responses and hand it to your boat captain.
No problem right?
#21 Wed, 03/18/2009 - 10:51pm
jpi92109-
BTW, is your paddling as bad as your humor?
#22 Wed, 03/18/2009 - 10:54pm
Print what? That I would have no problem signing a waiver and that I think they shouldnt have to deal with a "union" thought up by some dumbass from the mainland? Where should I send it?
And yes, my paddling sucks. Im new, and slow. But I cracked on your ideas, not you. Ill wave to you when your escort passes me, close to the start im sure. Ill just look for the boat flying the banner with a lawyers photo and phone number. Where exactly in the top guys should I look for your results? Im mean your fast right? Based on your insane sense of humor.
#23 Wed, 03/18/2009 - 11:13pm