Got Escort Boat Insurance?

This is the kind of stuff that ends races

#1 Sun, 03/15/2009 - 10:37pm

It is what it is.

Would you risk everything for a race?

I don't think so.

#2 Sun, 03/15/2009 - 10:59pm

You dont think any of the races are a risk in and of themselves? If you dont want a risk then dont go in the water. Enjoy the film on Ocean Paddler TV.

#3 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 12:13am

atom
Are you serious or are you just one of the mafia using an alias to raise the ire of others?

#4 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 6:05am

This is why most captains and boat owners have everybody on their boat (paddlers, coach, coordinator, etc.) sign a release waiver that they had written up by an attorney so that they are of the hook for any injuries and the such. It puts the risk back on the paddlers. I for one, am willing to take this risk because damn...I love to race.

#5 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 8:36am

This will be my first year doing outer island races and Ill sign the waiver. Its up to the paddler to either take recommendations or just make a judgement call if their unknown Captain seems sketchy. Other than that its up to the captain to have the paddler and any other parties riding along, sign a waiver prepared by an attorney. End of story. Can we please put all this talk of escort boat captain unions and lawsuits in the same place as the topic on life jackets on canoes in Hawaii?

#6 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 2:16pm

Way to go ScarySlow, some concrete feedback.

We live in a very litigous society.

Sad, but true no?

Protect our boat captains too!

They rock!

#7 Mon, 03/16/2009 - 10:45pm

jp92109-

I take it that you are unaware of a boat captain who was sued by a paddler after a Moloka'i race.

You seem to have all the answers, What say you now?

#8 Wed, 03/18/2009 - 10:38pm

I guess im the only guy who missed that. Judging by the response to your suggestion for a union and a liability policy for a race, im sure I wont be the only guy not interested in listening to you. I understand what your concerns are, but take it down a notch. Unions and insurance policies vs certifications and waivers. Besides, accidents happen. But if a boat captain causes an accident or worse, then he deserves to get sued IMO.

#9 Wed, 03/18/2009 - 11:19pm

Wow. Nice of you to assume it was likely the boat captain's fault alone.

More people are interested in this topic than you might think, but then again you've never done a Moloka'i crossing yet you said right?

I didn't come up with the suggestion for a union.

The point here is who is looking out for the safety and welfare of our boat captains.

"Deserves to get sued."

Ouch dude.

#10 Wed, 03/18/2009 - 11:33pm

Your right. Ive never crossed a channel yet. Im slow and not funny. Wow, im just a big loser.

#11 Thu, 03/19/2009 - 12:04am

Not a single concrete lead.

I guess insurance companies won't insure escort boat drivers.

Everyone else in the race is insured except them I guess.

#12 Sat, 03/28/2009 - 11:44pm

Usually, the event organizer's insurance provides for "additional insureds." So my guess is that if you furnish them with the name of your escort boat captain and pay the "additional insured's" portion of the fee, they are covered. But you go to do this at least 6 to 8 weeks in advance, so that they are included with the rest of the "additional insureds:" like the State of Hawaii, Maui County, C&C of Honolulu, all the sponsors, etc. The "additional insured fee is very reasonable, like maybe $15 to $50 per individual or entity.
So if the organizer's allow this, then I'd insure 2 or 3 escort boats, just in case one pulls out and you got back up.

If no can, then check out the boat captain's homeowner's insurance agent or your car insurance agent. Usually, a boat owner would get an umberlla policy that would cover his boat and guests?

#13 Sun, 03/29/2009 - 1:46am

Great info.

We've purchased the $15 insurance for our boat captains previously, and I believe this insurance is specifically for each individual, in case they themselves are injured.

Our boat captain's insurance company won't cover him for the race as it is considered too high risk, and way outside the scope of what his insurance policy is willing to cover.

Koacanoe, you have offered the first concrete lead, which I am most grateful for.

I am getting the sense though that escort boat captains who have been willing to take the risk all of these years, were working on the assumption that no paddler would sue them if they (paddlers) were injured during the course of the race.

Since that aloha is now gone, our boat captain has to understandably adjust his willingness to pilot a boat with people who could get hurt just getting in and out of his boat.

#14 Sun, 03/29/2009 - 6:12am

So what's the story on the lawsuit and what was the outcome?

#15 Sun, 03/29/2009 - 6:55am

Wow.

Finally, someone sharp and astute enough to ask the six-million dollar question.

You win!

Unfortunately, and on a public forum, I can only say this about that.

The story is one of deceit in the highest order, and of a man who lost his boat, his commercial fishing license, and is paying tens of thousands of dollars in attorney's fees which as in most cases will settle out-of-court. He is now a broken man in more ways than one.

If there is an insurance company that will insure these poor souls who escort paddling crews, I'm sure we would have heard from them by now. We know most boats are insured, but not for this type of high intensity, high risk type of activity. A special rider per captain would likely make it prohibitive unless they got together and insisted that the cost be borne by those paddling in the race.

Official boats are in an entirely different situation, as their civil exposure is less as most skirt, and not in as close prosimity to paddlers as the escort boats who are actually engaged in the numerous water changes, etc.

We can thank the errant party involved for this present insurance crisis insofar as people with boats who enjoyed the sport with us, but could and should not risk losing everything they worked so hard for in contrast to people who are sue happy.

Thanks for asking Jibofo.

You hit the nail right on the head.

I hope more people ask those who know, it shouldn't be hard to find out if you are in and around the paddling community during the past two-three years.

I'm sure that there will probably be some bonehead that will bring up the fact that it cost a $1,000 for an escort boat during the Ka'iwi crossing. Take said head out of your butt already.

Gas isn't as cheap as you might think, every boat is different. They could make as much fishing for the 2-3 days that it takes to get ready for, travel to, race, travel from, and clean for goodness sake.

Those who think they are getting ripped off by the cost are the very ones who probably even think of filing a lawsuit against an unsuspecting boat owner who is as much of a participant in a race as the paddlers in the canoe.

Nobody wants to see anybody get hurt during a race in the channel or on O'ahu, least of all the skipper of a boat.

But you know, if the ocean is churning there will be a certain amount of bumps and bruises that will invariably occur, and there's not a damn thing the skipper can do about that.

Does anybody really believe that every single paddler is heeding the boat captain's every instruction?

I don't think so.

As they say at a local pizza place "Nuff' said."

#16 Sun, 03/29/2009 - 1:40pm

We dont agree on some points but thanks for the info on the incident.

#17 Sun, 03/29/2009 - 2:50pm

I respect your opinion.

The truth is that a man and his family are now in ruins, and no race however big or small is worth that.

#18 Sun, 03/29/2009 - 4:13pm

automman: The escort boat in question, were they escorting a solo race, relay race, or OC-6 relay race? Indemnifying all the escorts should not be a problem, unless it is a last minute arrangement and too late to be included on the additional insured list. This is an eye opener topic and explains possibly why the new escort boat policy for the surfski race?

#19 Sun, 03/29/2009 - 7:07pm

OC6/Moloka'i Crossing

Unfortunately, if someone is bent on filing a lawsuit, there is very little that can be done to prevent it.

However, escort boat captains should be made aware of their civil exposure so they can make an informed decision to escort or not escort.

Insofar as the new escort boat policy for the surfski race, I do not know if there is a connection or not.

My best guess is that finding escort boats for our long distance races will become increasingly difficult unless something is done, and done soon.

Thank you for your constructive comment.

#20 Sun, 03/29/2009 - 8:13pm

Still searching for race specific insurance at an affordable price for my escort boat captain.

He said his insurance company says its too high risk to cover this type of activity at an affordable price.

#21 Fri, 04/03/2009 - 6:41am

I'm surprised that no one in the insurance industry has responded here, for there are quite a few paddlers who sell insurance? Anyway, how about an umbrella policy with the boat skipper's homeowners insurance? I know when I rented a vacation home, the agent told me they have commercial insurance from Lloyds of London because homeowners insurance would not cover weekly rentals. So probably have to check out Lloyds of London as a last resort?

#22 Fri, 04/03/2009 - 9:50am

Sounds great!

Not sure how enthusiastic boat captains who own homes would feel about putting their own boat and/or home owner's insurance on the line though.

Hopefully a paddler who sells insurance can get something going here. I've heard that a lot of boat captains won't escort anymore because of potential lawsuits.

#23 Fri, 04/03/2009 - 8:53pm

whats wrong with a waiver? we sign them for races. why couldnt we get a standard form drawn up and approved to use. its not an unheard of thing. we dont have to resort to spending more money.

#24 Fri, 04/03/2009 - 10:21pm

Waivers, in and of themselves, have never in and of itself, prevented anyone from filing a lawsuit.

If we end up having to spend more money, or not being able to race at all due to increase insurance costs, we can thank a paddler out there who filed a lawsuit against an unsuspecting boat captain.

Sad, but true.

#25 Fri, 04/03/2009 - 11:36pm

Unfortunately, even though you sign a waiver, you can't waive negligence, and that's why lawyers are able to make a living proving it. I remember a hotel manager wouldn't let us race from the hotel property until they had a waiver signed by an officer of the canoe club's board, and a copy of the event insurance indemnifying them.

#26 Fri, 04/03/2009 - 11:55pm

I hear ya' loud and clear koa (another great response).

If someone is negligent, they will likely be sued, waiver, or no waiver.

Unfortunately, innocent people also get sued by people who claim negligence where there was none to begin with.

Most cases settle out-of-court, and the nightmare for the target of a b.s. lawsuit lasts forever.

#27 Sat, 04/04/2009 - 12:13am

Of course! That's why the need for insurance: so they (insurance company) absorbs the cost of the lawsuit and settle, if that's the best alternative. Main thing: your boat captain is protected!!!!!! And eh! Whodaguy wen sue? More bettah we go talk to him? Yeah? Us guys all affected now. Swhy hard?

#28 Sat, 04/04/2009 - 12:52am

Insurance company refused to cover boat captain in question as it was beyond the scope of how many people could, or should be on the boat at any one time.

Unfortunately, most boat captains across the race course never entertained the notion that they might be sued.

Poke around a little, and I'm sure you'll catch of wind of the who and the when.

On top of everything else, I heard the crew stiffed the boat captain too!

#29 Sat, 04/04/2009 - 9:11pm