Warping

If boat is still in curing process, and some warping occurs, any possible way to fix it?

thanks,
kcchee11

Submitted by kcchee11 on Sat, 05/23/2009 - 6:40pm



Need more details ... Too many " it depends" right now ...

Still in curing could equal :

Right now ?

Molded or not ?

Out of mold but not post cured yet ?

"Warping" too ... sorry.

Globally twisted or localized spot from sun + car racks ?? for ex.

Not trying to be a jerk here .. but need more info to reply helpfully.

aloha,
pog


#1 Sat, 05/23/2009 - 7:34pm


o whoops sorry. molded, cured in the shop, but still not COMPLETELY cured. warped from spot from sun, while still on the rack with a stitchthis sunbrella UV protection cover on it. i dont know how it cud hav happened.

thanks,
kcchee11


#2 Sat, 05/23/2009 - 9:28pm


What does the manufacturer say???

Rambo


#3 Sat, 05/23/2009 - 9:52pm


"warped from spot from sun" = ???

Can you detail layup after explaining above as well ?

Again, NOT trying to be a dick ... but need more data to help diagnose ...

Thanks.

aloha,
pog


#4 Sat, 05/23/2009 - 10:38pm


ok i think its a double carbon layup. i wud love to take it back to the manufacturer but its REALLY embarassing. i just picked it up yesterday day, brand spankin new hawaii made, and i bring it home. leave it in the sun under a stitchthis cover expecting it to be alrite then i come home and the bottom has warping spots all on the bottom. im really sure its double carbon, its been heat curing in the shop for atleast a week and a half now, still got some to go and now the bottom of my boat looks like crap, and its white. my goodness. is there a chance for her to live?

thanks,
kcchee11


#5 Sat, 05/23/2009 - 11:17pm


O.K. Koakai,

Please know I read all this stuff from a builders perspective and view questions posted on the internet in liu of calling me / the manufacturer direct as a person doing 'research' to possibly absolve or negate their guilt in doing something they should not have .. Such as leaving a new boat out in the sun inside a cover.
Question I would ask or want to know details on:

"Under" a cover or inside or one ?

What was it sitting on ?

" its been heat curing in the shop for at least a week and a half now" ............

........... is a dead givaway mate ...

If the boat ( new or old ) sat out in the sun and got warped as a result, good chance these spots are now set in 'stone' as it were ... On some plastic boats ( tupperware kine ) you can reverse these effects. If the boat somehow got globally twisted, you might be able to reverse this with further application of heat and pressure.

aloha,
pog


#6 Sat, 05/23/2009 - 11:55pm


Pog, the damage sound like "oil canning" along the bottom of the hull where the internal strong back is usually attached with AB foam or Expanding foam. I've seen it in the past where heat releases the solvents in the AB foam and that softens the layup, especially if they have used coremat as core material.

The damage is usually either side of where the internal strong back is but the very bottom 2 inches is usually unaffected.

Does this fit the description Kcchee11 ????

Rambo


#7 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 12:09am


Rambo, that makes a lot of sense and I learned something, mahalo.


#8 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 12:16am


Warping from the sun happens whether fully cured or not. Nothing you can do about it if you leave it out in the sun for a long period of time even under or in a UV cover as it won't totally protect it. Also having the cover really tight on it may have caused some of the damage as would the type of rack/horse you leave it on when the epoxy/carbon got hot as it did to cause warping.

I have two of my OC-1's covered with Sunbrella covers, but they are under the eaves of the roof of our house and definitely out of the direct sunlight during the hottest times of the day. My other used one is bare hanging on a rack in the garage safe from the sunlight. None of them has suffered any warping damage.

It is definitely a double carbon layup for your Hawaii made OC-1 as that's the only layup they are doing for it. Even with a bit of warping, it won't have any effect at all with its performance. I've talked with the manufacturer before about the layups and even about warping or damage caused from tiedown straps. It had no effect of performance in the water on the ones they have used racing. Same goes for the other guys I see at races that did have the strap marks/patterns on their hulls.

Definitely talk to the manufacturer and see if there is anything they can do to help or tell you to prevent any further warping.


#9 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 12:29am


AB foam ... a warranty nightmare ...

You go through all 'that' work to get everything perfect and then that stuff comes back to haunt you ... even after post curing w/super heat .... it NEVER seems to be stable ... That said, most manufactures should have sorted out by now that they should NOT be using unless they are masochists for punishment ... Too much good alternatives out there.

One being to cut the stringers more accurately.

aloha,
pog


#10 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 12:35am


It's true the oil canning will not effect the performance, at least nothing that will be measurable. One of the fastest OC2 canoes i ever paddled was very badly oil canned down both sides of the hull for the full length.

Rambo


#11 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 12:46am


If your new boat is out of the mold and the layup is not cured, you need to get your money back RIGHT NOW !!!

Have whoever built your boat build you a new one at no extra cost to you or find another manufacturer immediatly.

This talk about how to fix a brand new yet uncured boat is senseless.

Throw the factory defected boat in the trash can and go get another one.

If your boat was properly cured it wouldn`t matter if you parked it in the sun after you brought it home.

Just so you know, I`ve been paddling carbon and kevlar composite boats for well over 30 years and ALL of the good ones are high temperature cured.

Think about this,,,, if composite airplanes were low temperature cured would you go flying in one,,, not me, not without a good parachute.

http://www.lancair.com/Main/


#12 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 2:09am


I would definitely present the canoe to the manufacturer for assessment, along with the story you gave about how you stored it. No good being embarrassed, you might in fact be wrong about whether you were at fault or not.

Rambo


#13 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 3:10am


The following is not a bad place to start to gather info on Autoclave Curing:

http://www.composites-by-design.com/processes.htm

Read this too:

http://www.epickayaks.com/tech/kayakanatomy

Line number 9 is the pertinent one:

Epoxy infusion into the mold followed by heated curing is the only way to go.


#14 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 5:13am


have the boys look at it. What can also happen- if the canoe can't breath (sp?) ie plug in and breather tube crimped, when the canoe cools down at night the air contracts and sucks in the hull. A new carbon canoe takes at least 6 months to fully cure but I have heard of older canoes deforming when they couldn't breath. Depending on the severity of the problem, if minor, canoe will still perform fine. If major, the concave may allow it to surf better but suck in the flats. Try the heat gun trick- heat up the area plow expansion into the hull and see if it pops out. Works sometimes - best to have the manufacturer do it. Good luck!


#15 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 9:21am


My first paddleboard did the oil canning thing. My canoes never have and I have left them out in the sun in my yard and even on top of my truck all day. Both were from the same builder.

I say you could take it to the manufacturer. But most anyone will tell you not to leave a boat in the sun, no matter what you have on it.


#16 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 12:21pm


i dont really think it was the manufactuers fault, it was my first hawaiian made boat and i shouldve been more wary of where i should store it. i had it out on two racks under a cover not inside a cover, i strapped only a few parts down just so that it wudnt fly off. im going to try and take it back and see what they can do about pulling it out hopefully. i guess this kinda stuff just happens, and well lesson learned. right now im keeping it in the shade behind a whole lotta crap in my garage. I dont want to say who the builders were only because i respect there identity and they are really nice people and hav been in there for a while now i guess and they have just been so helpful in the process. But it was mostly my fault and i will see if i can get it fixed. i just hope this doesnt get worst. stupid sun.

but thanks for all the help guys. aloha,
kcchee11


#17 Sun, 05/24/2009 - 4:21pm


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